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AS3X 636A on any airplane?

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  • #21
    Originally posted by MJ4RC View Post
    I got flagged too. Why? what did I do? (I did not post anything)
    I also have been flagged on this. How come?

    Comment


    • #22
      There's something wrong with the flagging system...the system is generating them.
      TiredIron Aviation
      Tired Iron Military Vehicles

      Comment


      • #23
        Originally posted by TiredIronGRB View Post
        There's something wrong with the flagging system...the system is generating them.
        Oh Okay, Thanks for the heads up TI. Thought I was being drug into something I want nothing to do with.
        I like it here and everyone has been so helpful and positive.

        Comment


        • #24
          Originally posted by PilotAndy1994 View Post
          I thought it would work because the receiver came out of the carbon z Cessna. Not too much bigger than this big ol mustang.... I put one in a Dynam plane and it did wonders. I ordered a program thing so I can dial it in. We'll see..... Thanks

          Andy
          You don't need to buy a new AR 636. Just program the one you have. I take them out of other planes and reprogram them all the time, no problem. BUT you must program it for the specific plane and it's unique characteristics that you are installing it in. When programming, you can transfer the settings from the existing receiver to your phone app to see what has been programmed already, or transfer settings from the app to the receiver, which will essentially wipe out whatever is already there, thus starting with a clean slate. When you get proficient at it, you can even adjust the gain settings from your transmitter to the receiver IN flight, using relative gains instead of absolute gains. I've done this with my 3D Extreme Flight planes on each of the 3 modes to see at what gain level oscillation (too much gain) occurs for each surface at specific speeds. On my 1600mm Spitfire, Corsair and 1700mm P-51, I never use take off flaps, yet was able to program a take-off mode (still with the flap channel switch) with heading gain on the rudder and elevator, thus correcting the tendency to veer left on the runway from the prop wash and give a nice smooth lift off as the elevator is neutral with the tail wheel down, and then gives some slight up elevator as the tail wheel lifts off and the plane is level.
          Flying (or attempting to) Beast 60E, Extreme Flight Slick 580 60", 2000mm B-24 Olive & Silver, 1700mm P-51, 1600mm Spitfire, Red Bull F4U Corsair, 1400mm P-51, Red Bull Edge 540, Yak 54, Stinger 90, Prometheus & my wife's Apprentice when she's not looking. Waiting for a BIG B-17 & 94" MXS-EXP Extreme Flight & F-4 Phantom

          Hugh "Wildman" Wiedman

          Comment


          • #25
            Originally posted by PilotAndy1994 View Post
            So I got the Freewing "Old Crow" in yesterday and first tried hooking her up to a 636 receiver with the AS3X system - initially wanting stabilization on a larger aircraft such as this mustang. I tried installing it with the servo leads facing forwards, and then backwards, and either way I tried - one of the channels was always stabilized in reverse once initialized...For example in one direction the ailerons would be gyro'd backwards , and in the other direction the ailerons would be correct, but now the ELEVATOR was gyro'd backwards...( Jerking the airplane around resulted in no counter stabilization in the opposite direction, but instead IN the direction of jerk ) I didn't think this would be good.....

            I'm unsure if there was any way to correct this reversing of the gyro - so I just put a standard receiver in it...Flies great...but would love to have as3x on my side.

            Anybody know how to reverse the stabilizing actions on individual channels?

            Thanks,

            Andy
            The reason you couldn't get all surfaces moving in the right direction no matter what orientation you used on the receiver was because the Servo Setup must be programmed on the receiver, not on your transmitter. On the transmitter under the Servo Setup screen, travel must be 100, subtrim 0 and especially Reverse must be normal. Reversing of a servo is programmed on the receiver only, then all surfaces correct in the right direction. After you program the orientation direction in the receiver, I like to set 1 flight mode (of the 3 available) with a lot of heading hold and rate gain on all surfaces, just to make sure all surfaces move in the correct direction. With heading hold, as you move the plane, the surfaces correct and hold until you move it back to the original position. With rate gain only, it kind of flutters, and you may not be sure which way it is correcting. Then, when satisfied it is correct, reprogram back to your original gain settings and take off heading gains (I only use high heading gains on the 3D positions in acrobatic planes or in take-off flight modes with my tail dragging warbirds).

            Then go to the Telemetry Screen in the transmitter and add AS3X in any empty slot (I use it in #1). Now you have a screen which now shows up in the Function List as AS3X Gains, and also in your flight screen selected off your roller (only when connected to the receiver) that shows the exact gains coming from the receiver. This will verify your gain values, and on this screen, you can actually increase or decrease the values while in flight and assuming you have set the gains as absolute instead of relative (which only works if you have not programmed your flight modes on the flap channel). On my birds with gear and flaps, all six channels are used and my flight mode switch is also my flap switch, so with these, I have to use relative gain settings (because the flaps use a % setting).

            The only thing I do not do "by the book" is set the Dual Rates and Expos through the receiver. I still set those on the transmitter, with the receiver set at 100% D/R, 0 Expo. I like to have 3 D/R's and expos (low/medium/high) at the flick of a switch, and this way I have 9 different "flight modes" available while in the air (3 each of dual rates and expo for each of the 3 gain settings of the flight modes). This comes in real handy especially with my four 64" Extreme Flight MSX's/Slick/Edge because the surfaces are so large and high rates have as much as 60 degree throws with 75% Expo, so the 3D flight mode gains are up to 80% but I still have 3 levels of surface throws and expos to play with.

            For now, I expect you have flaps and gear channels on your "Old Crow", meaning all six channels are used. Set the Flight mode switch to the Flap switch and on the receiver to AUX 1. Flight mode 1 can be your normal fly around and use something like 25/30/35 % gains for Aileron/Elevator/Rudder. Flight mode 2 can be take-off flaps, Flight mode 3 landing flaps, with gains something like 50/60/70 or more (I use 80/85/90 on my 1700mm P-51) depending on size of the plane and area of each surface. If your flaps are set at something like +100/40/-60 then programmed flight mode (FM) 1 will be flap position 1 (up). If it is reversed, say -100/-40/+60, then flaps up will actually be FM3 on the receiver (for obvious reasons), so program accordingly.

            Above all, have fun programming. I found programming on a Samsung works best when the transmitter is NOT hooked up, and sometimes you have to "connect" several times before it works. An i phone is better. You can also program with the transmitter hooked in, but sometimes it disconnects in mid programming. When completely finished programming, disconnect and then reconnect. If the values in your app are not the same as those in the receiver, it will say "out of sync", then transfer data from receiver and verify all settings in your phone. Watch the Horizon video on AS3X programming to familiarize the basic programming steps, keeping in mind this was done 3-4 years ago and we used to use a sync cable, now the updated app uses a wireless cable.
            Flying (or attempting to) Beast 60E, Extreme Flight Slick 580 60", 2000mm B-24 Olive & Silver, 1700mm P-51, 1600mm Spitfire, Red Bull F4U Corsair, 1400mm P-51, Red Bull Edge 540, Yak 54, Stinger 90, Prometheus & my wife's Apprentice when she's not looking. Waiting for a BIG B-17 & 94" MXS-EXP Extreme Flight & F-4 Phantom

            Hugh "Wildman" Wiedman

            Comment


            • #26
              Originally posted by Hugh Wiedman View Post

              The reason you couldn't get all surfaces moving in the right direction no matter what orientation you used on the receiver was because the Servo Setup must be programmed on the receiver, not on your transmitter. On the transmitter under the Servo Setup screen, travel must be 100, subtrim 0 and especially Reverse must be normal. Reversing of a servo is programmed on the receiver only, then all surfaces correct in the right direction. After you program the orientation direction in the receiver, I like to set 1 flight mode (of the 3 available) with a lot of heading hold and rate gain on all surfaces, just to make sure all surfaces move in the correct direction. With heading hold, as you move the plane, the surfaces correct and hold until you move it back to the original position. With rate gain only, it kind of flutters, and you may not be sure which way it is correcting. Then, when satisfied it is correct, reprogram back to your original gain settings and take off heading gains (I only use high heading gains on the 3D positions in acrobatic planes or in take-off flight modes with my tail dragging warbirds).

              Then go to the Telemetry Screen in the transmitter and add AS3X in any empty slot (I use it in #1). Now you have a screen which now shows up in the Function List as AS3X Gains, and also in your flight screen selected off your roller (only when connected to the receiver) that shows the exact gains coming from the receiver. This will verify your gain values, and on this screen, you can actually increase or decrease the values while in flight and assuming you have set the gains as absolute instead of relative (which only works if you have not programmed your flight modes on the flap channel). On my birds with gear and flaps, all six channels are used and my flight mode switch is also my flap switch, so with these, I have to use relative gain settings (because the flaps use a % setting).

              The only thing I do not do "by the book" is set the Dual Rates and Expos through the receiver. I still set those on the transmitter, with the receiver set at 100% D/R, 0 Expo. I like to have 3 D/R's and expos (low/medium/high) at the flick of a switch, and this way I have 9 different "flight modes" available while in the air (3 each of dual rates and expo for each of the 3 gain settings of the flight modes). This comes in real handy especially with my four 64" Extreme Flight MSX's/Slick/Edge because the surfaces are so large and high rates have as much as 60 degree throws with 75% Expo, so the 3D flight mode gains are up to 80% but I still have 3 levels of surface throws and expos to play with.

              For now, I expect you have flaps and gear channels on your "Old Crow", meaning all six channels are used. Set the Flight mode switch to the Flap switch and on the receiver to AUX 1. Flight mode 1 can be your normal fly around and use something like 25/30/35 % gains for Aileron/Elevator/Rudder. Flight mode 2 can be take-off flaps, Flight mode 3 landing flaps, with gains something like 50/60/70 or more (I use 80/85/90 on my 1700mm P-51) depending on size of the plane and area of each surface. If your flaps are set at something like +100/40/-60 then programmed flight mode (FM) 1 will be flap position 1 (up). If it is reversed, say -100/-40/+60, then flaps up will actually be FM3 on the receiver (for obvious reasons), so program accordingly.

              Above all, have fun programming. I found programming on a Samsung works best when the transmitter is NOT hooked up, and sometimes you have to "connect" several times before it works. An i phone is better. You can also program with the transmitter hooked in, but sometimes it disconnects in mid programming. When completely finished programming, disconnect and then reconnect. If the values in your app are not the same as those in the receiver, it will say "out of sync", then transfer data from receiver and verify all settings in your phone. Watch the Horizon video on AS3X programming to familiarize the basic programming steps, keeping in mind this was done 3-4 years ago and we used to use a sync cable, now the updated app uses a wireless cable.

              So you're saying that I can have three different "flight modes" that are signaled by say a switch such as my flap switch? You are correct that the Mustang would have all 6 channels used when using the 636a, and really all I would want is just one "cure all" flight mode that just balances the plane out in turbulent conditions just like HH programs it before its shipped to my home.

              How do you program for individual airplanes? What values do you use? Are they dependent on weight and size of the model? I was wondering if there was a heading hold so you can sit there and see if the plane is being corrected correctly instead of having to jiggle it all over to catch a surface going in the right direction!

              I have my flaps on Switch D on the Dx8 - pos. 0 is flaps up, pos 1 is takeoff flaps, and pos 2 is landing flaps. You're saying with each flip of the switch, I can assign different levels of gyro gain?

              I ordered the bluetooth module from HH, and I look forward to learning how to program. This all sounds really neat so far - I know that mustang will be a doll once she gets as3x

              Thanks,

              Andy

              Comment


              • #27
                Originally posted by TiredIronGRB View Post
                There's something wrong with the flagging system...the system is generating them.
                That makes sense, I got flagged on this thread before I even read it.

                Comment


                • #28
                  I flagged that fella back at the beginning of the thread for the rude remark... I don't need that kind of belittlement - nor does anyone need/deserve it.

                  Comment


                  • #29
                    As3x programming is not hard. What it is is extremely poorly documented.

                    Find someone locally to help you that understands the nuances. I can get you started but again, you really need someone there.

                    First.
                    Upgrade everything. Make sure your transmitter and receiver are all using the latest firmware and software versions.

                    Download the Spektrum programmer. I feel that the PC version is currently the best, but it won't work with the Bluetooth adapter. Second best might be android version as. That works with the adapter and.given the IX12 has seen big improvements. I haven't used iOS version in years.


                    Gains channel
                    This is the channel which allows you adjust the gains in flight. On my DX9, I set it to my LTrim button. Gain trim is a percentage expression based on the intial gains setting. So if your gains are programmed via the programmer at say 50, then 0 trim is zero and 100% trim is 50 and after flying and adjuing the gain trim to say 25,the value you lock into the programmer is 25% of 50.

                    Flight Mode
                    Lots of different opinions here on how to use them. The idea is that there are different phases of flight that might require different gains. Some use this for aerobatic conditions, others for flight stages such as. Takeoff,. Cruise, and Landing. Your ability to use flight modes is dependent upon the number of channels used by the plane and having a free channel on the receiver... Sort of. It is possible to overload a flight control channel as a flight mode.. Horizon does this regularly. On the corsair, the gains change via flight mode based on gear state.

                    Some people prefer to reserve a flight mode to turn off the gains in case of a problem.

                    Programming
                    Generally setting the priority to 160-170 applies to every plane out there. Start at 160 and you'll be fine.

                    Below is a setting for a Stinson Voyager model.

                    Click image for larger version

Name:	Screenshot_20181206-084110.png
Views:	1
Size:	124.0 KB
ID:	164884



                    ​Dont set differential unless you have a high wing plane and you are dealing with adverse yaw.

                    Dont use heading gain until you fully understand what it does. Basically it tells the gyro to hold that heading until commanded otherwise. Screw this up and you will either have a subterranean flight or a fly away. That said it is extremely useful for checking your initial settings

                    Rate Gain
                    These are ultimate gain values. They will differ depending upon the model and your flying style. I generally set them up at 100, with the gain trimmer on my transmitter set to 0. Thus the gains start.at 0% and with each added click of.trim it. Increases by 1. This keeps.the.math simpler and. when done flight testing all you need to do to lock. In the setting. In. The programmer is. To copy. The. Trim. Value.


                    Absolute VS relative gains
                    Absolute gains cannot be modified in flight by the trimmer. Use this to. Isolate A control surface from modification in flight. Ive referred to locking in the settings earlier. By this I mean setting the value. In the programmer to absolute. DO NOT SET. YOUR. INITIAL GAINS. TO 100 and Absolute. You'll regret it. You can.set.them.all.to relative..and adjust. Them. All simultaneously. Keep in mind the ending values. will not be the same for every surface

                    Setup
                    Orientation is critical.. Set up your wing type.and receiver orientation precisely. Follow the instructions the programmer says for setting up your transmitter. The receiver may end up with a different wing type than your transmitter. Get this wrong and your control surfaces will be reversed and gyro corrections may go opposite.

                    Pre Flight
                    Assuming you've.set.up your receiver and transmitter with some initial gains

                    In the programmer Set the heading hold.to something around. 80 for each surface for the current flight mode. This will allow you to observe what the gyro will do by freezing the controls on. The plane. Otherwise the changes can be difficult to observe

                    Hold the plane and spin up the throttle and then back down. This tells the gyro to Activate. Safe the throttle

                    Move the plane. Dip the wings and the ailerons should move
                    Twist the plane and the rudder should move. Verify each surface is moving in the correct direction. Make any fixes in the programmer only. Never reverse a servo in the transmitter. Check receiver orientation before reversing servos in the programmer.

                    Once everything is working as desired reset the heading Hold. To 0.
                    ​​

                    Flight
                    When adjusting gain for a particular surface, Be sure to be a few mistakes high. Adjust the gain until you just start to see oscillation then back it down a few clicks. Speed matters. Your gains should not cause the plane to oscillate when at full speed. So if you see oscillation at. 1/2 throttle, your gains are way too high.


                    That should get you started. There's a ton more to say and learn. Again, find someone there.that can help. You

                    Also. Use the programmer and download settings from all. The eflite PLANES you can. Find. It is interesting.


                    ​​​​

                    ​​​​​​

                    ​​​​​​





                    Comment


                    • #30
                      Originally posted by Gilatrout View Post
                      As3x programming is not hard. What it is is extremely poorly documented.

                      Find someone locally to help you that understands the nuances. I can get you started but again, you really need someone there.

                      First.
                      Upgrade everything. Make sure your transmitter and receiver are all using the latest firmware and software versions.

                      Download the Spektrum programmer. I feel that the PC version is currently the best, but it won't work with the Bluetooth adapter. Second best might be android version as. That works with the adapter and.given the IX12 has seen big improvements. I haven't used iOS version in years.


                      Gains channel
                      This is the channel which allows you adjust the gains in flight. On my DX9, I set it to my LTrim button. Gain trim is a percentage expression based on the intial gains setting. So if your gains are programmed via the programmer at say 50, then 0 trim is zero and 100% trim is 50 and after flying and adjuing the gain trim to say 25,the value you lock into the programmer is 25% of 50.

                      Flight Mode
                      Lots of different opinions here on how to use them. The idea is that there are different phases of flight that might require different gains. Some use this for aerobatic conditions, others for flight stages such as. Takeoff,. Cruise, and Landing. Your ability to use flight modes is dependent upon the number of channels used by the plane and having a free channel on the receiver... Sort of. It is possible to overload a flight control channel as a flight mode.. Horizon does this regularly. On the corsair, the gains change via flight mode based on gear state.

                      Some people prefer to reserve a flight mode to turn off the gains in case of a problem.

                      Programming
                      Generally setting the priority to 160-170 applies to every plane out there. Start at 160 and you'll be fine.

                      Below is a setting for a Stinson Voyager model.

                      Click image for larger version

Name:	Screenshot_20181206-084110.png
Views:	1
Size:	124.0 KB
ID:	164884



                      ​Dont set differential unless you have a high wing plane and you are dealing with adverse yaw.

                      Dont use heading gain until you fully understand what it does. Basically it tells the gyro to hold that heading until commanded otherwise. Screw this up and you will either have a subterranean flight or a fly away. That said it is extremely useful for checking your initial settings

                      Rate Gain
                      These are ultimate gain values. They will differ depending upon the model and your flying style. I generally set them up at 100, with the gain trimmer on my transmitter set to 0. Thus the gains start.at 0% and with each added click of.trim it. Increases by 1. This keeps.the.math simpler and. when done flight testing all you need to do to lock. In the setting. In. The programmer is. To copy. The. Trim. Value.


                      Absolute VS relative gains
                      Absolute gains cannot be modified in flight by the trimmer. Use this to. Isolate A control surface from modification in flight. Ive referred to locking in the settings earlier. By this I mean setting the value. In the programmer to absolute. DO NOT SET. YOUR. INITIAL GAINS. TO 100 and Absolute. You'll regret it. You can.set.them.all.to relative..and adjust. Them. All simultaneously. Keep in mind the ending values. will not be the same for every surface

                      Setup
                      Orientation is critical.. Set up your wing type.and receiver orientation precisely. Follow the instructions the programmer says for setting up your transmitter. The receiver may end up with a different wing type than your transmitter. Get this wrong and your control surfaces will be reversed and gyro corrections may go opposite.

                      Pre Flight
                      Assuming you've.set.up your receiver and transmitter with some initial gains

                      In the programmer Set the heading hold.to something around. 80 for each surface for the current flight mode. This will allow you to observe what the gyro will do by freezing the controls on. The plane. Otherwise the changes can be difficult to observe

                      Hold the plane and spin up the throttle and then back down. This tells the gyro to Activate. Safe the throttle

                      Move the plane. Dip the wings and the ailerons should move
                      Twist the plane and the rudder should move. Verify each surface is moving in the correct direction. Make any fixes in the programmer only. Never reverse a servo in the transmitter. Check receiver orientation before reversing servos in the programmer.

                      Once everything is working as desired reset the heading Hold. To 0.
                      ​​

                      Flight
                      When adjusting gain for a particular surface, Be sure to be a few mistakes high. Adjust the gain until you just start to see oscillation then back it down a few clicks. Speed matters. Your gains should not cause the plane to oscillate when at full speed. So if you see oscillation at. 1/2 throttle, your gains are way too high.


                      That should get you started. There's a ton more to say and learn. Again, find someone there.that can help. You

                      Also. Use the programmer and download settings from all. The eflite PLANES you can. Find. It is interesting.


                      ​​​​

                      ​​​​​​

                      ​​​​​​




                      Very helpful information Gilatrout - I will reference once I receive the programmer.

                      My biggest thing is that I just want one main "flight mode" for the mustang - I don't really want to have several different modes - maybe one day - but I am just looking for it to stabilize a little after spin up and stay that way until I unplug the battery. Get rid of the bumpy rides on these blustery Carolina winter days.

                      Just like the HH planes are from the factory - That was a neat info bite about the corsair - I had no clue they did that on the gear - i had one and loved it.

                      I am a little familiar with Gyros from messing with Heli's over the years - granted they were never in flyable condition long enough for me to really learn....

                      Looking forward to swapping out the mustang and getting it ready to rock - the Freewing model is HUGE - and HEAVY.

                      Flies great though.....Love it..

                      Comment


                      • #31
                        Well I got the Bluetooth module in today, and so far it has been a waste of time...

                        The device picks up the receiver - but there is no option to reverse the stabilizing channels - you can reverse the actual channel itself, but the stabilization is still backwards from what it should be. I see you can tell the device what way you have the receiver oriented - and I have done so correctly. The wing and tail modes are set to normal - which is what they are on the transmitter.....

                        I finally ended up hitting reset receiver - so all of the data was reset - leaving me with a receiver that is always in Safe Mode - surfaces twitch twice after power up...

                        The app has these pre-programmed "models" - Random planes like a han500p-51 - an acrobatic job - a glider.....Don't know why they are even there...

                        There's something easy I'm missing - but I can't figure it out

                        It seems like all you can really do from the app is change the % of stabilization. I was hoping you could "flip" or reverse the stabilization axis....

                        Oh well - maybe someone knows what I'm doing wrong?

                        I'd appreciate the help greatly.....Noticed this mustang is very unstable at slow speeds -unlike any other mustang I've had. The large 2 blade prop creates a gyroscopic effect in low airspeed flight....I think she could benefit from AS3X...

                        Stuck inside for a few days anyways here in Rougemont, NC....14" of snow.....

                        Thanks,


                        Andy

                        Comment


                        • #32
                          GOT IT!

                          Had to reverse the surfaces on the transmitter - and then reverse them on the program...Now surfaces move in the correct direction - and are stabilized in the right direction..

                          Awesome!

                          Andy

                          Comment


                          • #33
                            Something weird happens now with the plane - when I power up the receiver the controls twitch normally, but now twice - as before they only did once.

                            I've tried binding in the manner to disable SAFE mode, but apparently this is no longer successful. Trying to figure out why.

                            Comment


                            • #34
                              Updating to everything even though this is probably a dead in the water topic:

                              The mustang flew great - was very stabilized, and didn't run into any issues with having reset the receiver, and having to reverse the surfaces inside the program, AND on the transmitter.

                              the receiver is locked in SAFE mode - even though I have tried to bind it in the necessary way to disable it - I always get the double surface movements on startup - oh well....

                              Took her far away - flipped switches - cycled everything.....Nothing went bad.

                              Took the winds like a champ!

                              Little programmer proved useful in the end....All it really does is allow you to change the gyro settings....Nothing much else that the transmitter can't do alone.

                              Thanks for the input and advice, guys...

                              Andy.


                              Comment

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