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Freewing 90mm F-16 Flaperon help.

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  • Freewing 90mm F-16 Flaperon help.

    If "flaps" are deployed on this F-16, does the plane "balloon" or dive? IE, does it need UP or DOWN ELE to compensate? I seem to recall reading something about how much ELE needs to be dialed in for each flap setting but I can't find it now. It may have even been a YouTube video but searching MotionRC's YouTube channel, can't find anything about it.
    A couple of other questions ...................................
    For flaperons, one AIL plugs into AIL on the Rx and the other goes into AUX1, then set wing type for Flaperons (on DX8). Is this correct?
    I also see some flyers program in Elevons at the same time as having Flaperons. How do you do that? Where does each servo get plugged into on the Rx? Normally, one ELE serov goes int ELE port and the other goes into AIL and select "Elevon" in wing/tail type but if you have Flaperons already, the AIL port is tied up. :huh:

  • #2
    I figured it out myself after some fiddling. Since noone else was interested in this, I'll just post up a YouTube video of what I did and try to close this thread.
     

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    • #3
      I programmed Flaperons for my F-16 also. I originally had 1/2 flap for takeoff and full flaps for landing. I later removed 1/2 flap due to it not being really necessary for takeoff. I also lessened the full flap to approx 3/4 flap for landings. To answer your original question, I also programmed 10% of up elevator with the deployment of flaps. This combo seems to work pretty well. There is another gentleman who flies at our field who doesnt use flaperons and I would say I can land maybe 4 or 5 mph slower. Either way seems to work fine, I just prefer the use of Flaperons. I am not using Tailerons.

      Addison

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Addison.MotionRC View Post
        To answer your original question, I also programmed 10% of up elevator with the deployment of flaps.
        Thanks, Addison. I was curious if flaps on this acted like DN elevator like on a delta wing such as a Eurofighter or any other kind of flying wing. Not knowing this, I kept 1/2 flaps and use a slow deployment so I could ease into the transition and manually correct. I won't use flaps for take off.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by xviper View Post
          I figured it out myself after some fiddling. Since noone else was interested in this, I'll just post up a YouTube video of what I did and try to close this thread.
          Hi xviper - so what combination of elevons and flaperons worked best for you on this model? Right now I have only flaperson setup and do not like how the plane behaves with flaps down as you loose roll control. I am wondering if the plane would fly well with both flaperson and elevons alsways ON even with flaps up?

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          • #6
            I fly my 70mm with tailerons, flaperons and rudder mixed in full time. When I had my 90mm I had tailerons and flaperons full time on it too.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Evan D View Post
              I fly my 70mm with tailerons, flaperons and rudder mixed in full time. When I had my 90mm I had tailerons and flaperons full time on it too.
              Ok, thanks. Was there a particular ratio between the two or 100%

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              • #8
                On the 90mm I had about 50% tailerons. It really helped since I like a lot of roll and the 90mm F-16 was sluggish.



                Originally posted by PaulZ View Post

                Ok, thanks. Was there a particular ratio between the two or 100%

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by PaulZ View Post

                  Hi xviper - so what combination of elevons and flaperons worked best for you on this model? Right now I have only flaperson setup and do not like how the plane behaves with flaps down as you loose roll control. I am wondering if the plane would fly well with both flaperson and elevons alsways ON even with flaps up?
                  I didn't have "tailerons" on my 70mm as I did on my 90mm. The flaperons were used only for take off (less than 1/2 flaps) and landings. As the plane was on the downwind, I would drop gear and go to part flaps. There was no problem doing the final turn into the wind. Once the plane was lined up with the runway, I'd go full flaps, but there was still enough aileron control on the roll axis to correct for level. I never tried to do a full turn on full flaps. It didn't have enough aileron throw to do the job and I was worried about over-driving the servos. I went to low rates whenever I used flaps. There wasn't much left on the "down" side of the elevon (when doing roll input) to go any further down but the other side had plenty to go up to help on the roll axis.

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                  • #10
                    I had mine set with up elevator. But in crosswind landings using a bit of rudder there was not enough aileron roll authority with flaperons. So when I deployed flaperons I set up tailerons to help with roll authority.

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                    • #11
                      I too have the 90mm F-16, and programmed flaperons. As some of you describe, I found it a real chore to turn on the last legs of the final approach. Seems to me that it has less to do with "not much more down travel" on the outboard aileron, as it does with adverse yaw -- the "down" flapperon causing more drag on the outside of the turn. I too programmed in rudder mix only when the flaps are down. This certainly helped but did not totally fix the situation.

                      I've been trying to learn from others who seem to have figured out some things really well -- in particular, there's a guy in San Francisco who has made a lot of videos of his 90mm F-22 and his ability to fly it, and in particular, land it, in "high alpha." I've got that plane as well, and I don't have a lot of trouble landing it, except even with full (and I mean full) flaps, I still land too fast, use too much runway, and roll into the rough. I was very impressed by the videos and recently decided I needed to try some of this "high alpha" stuff and see. In my mind, there's no question that pulling some elevator and then working the throttle really slowed the F-22 down and I was able to land in half the distance with a third of the rollout. On the other hand, I found it a real challenge to coordinate holding the little bit of up elevator while making turns and approach.

                      I decided to try something very different (for me at least). I seldom use flaps on takeoff, and I almost always land with full flaps. Here's what I did: I took the half-flap setting and made it identical to the full flap setting, which included a bit of down elevator. Then on the "full flap" setting, I started adding UP elevator, and each flight adding a little more, until the model started to get to the "high alpha" state I was looking for, without having to jockey the stick. So when I put the gear down, I go to "half flaps" (which is full flap, but a bit of up elevator) to start slowing down, and then once slowed, flip to full flap (with the up elevator). I'm still experimenting with how much "up", but I've been adding 2 or 3 points each flight and I think I'm about there. I think now I can can just practice my landings with the new "approach" to approaches.

                      Now back to the F-16. After not flying it for a while, I got to a neighboring club's field with a long paved runway -- the only place I've ever flown it. The first flight was about like every other landing -- swung too wide on the last turn, used too much runway. Then I decided, what the hell, let's try something different. Next landing, I didn't use the flapperons at all, but just started goosing the stick back for high alpha, and it made a big difference -- landed much slower and used far less runway. Of course, I was back to trying to coordinate too much (I'm not that coordinated!).

                      So here's what I plan to try the next time I fly this F-16. I'm going to reprogram my flapperons so that the flaps go down very little or even not at all -- but the elevator goes up some for the mid position and more for the "full flap" position. This keeps the switch where I'm used to and I can go back to the previous flaperon settings if I want. This will eliminate the adverse yaw so my approaches should be better, and with the high alpha, slower.

                      I've read plenty of places where experienced pilots say the key to landing the F-16 is all about high alpha (and less about flaperons), and I'm starting to buy in.

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                      • #12
                        Makes sense, I also heard that and will try more alpha as well. Thanks MrSmoothie...

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by PaulZ View Post
                          Makes sense, I also heard that and will try more alpha as well. Thanks MrSmoothie...
                          The F-16 loves high alpha, I fly mine on the stock settings, no expo, dual rates or flaperons, my trick that I use, is to go into high alpha as I'm turning final, so my downwind leg is about 1/2 power, then into the base leg, then pull power back in the turn to final, if your CG is right (118mm on mine) it will raise the nose automatically, then I either add power or pull some power if I'm to fast, if you practice this enough you will find that it locks in on final at a certain power setting and it will stay that way, so once you find the right AOA and power setting you will find yourself waiting for it to touchdown, and I do have a little up elevator the whole time as well. I know it sounds hard but it works and will give you a big smile everytime when you figure it out. I've had five of these so far so I have plenty of landings and no crashes on any of them, shouldn't have said that....:Sweating:

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