One of the guys I fly with. at our club field, purchased this aircraft. After receiving it and assembling it he decided that he didn't feel comfortable about flying it and asked me if I would set it up and maiden it for him. I told him I'd be more than happy to do so and he gave me the plane to set up the servos etc and maiden it. I took the time to read through all the posts on the 70mm F-104 on both here and on RCGroups to get an idea on what is the best set up and how it handles in the air. I ended up using the recommendations that Alpha posted in post #7.
Took the plane to the field to maiden it. I used an Admiral 6s3300 battery in it like a lot of guys recommended. We have a 400' long paved runway and I started my take off roll about 25 feet in from one end and used every foot available as the plane didn't seem to be building a lot of speed, not what I had expected anyway. As the runway ran out I gave it some up elevator and it lifted off the runway about 2 to 3 feet high as it rolled to the right (basically stalled) went upside down and hit the ground. Luckily the tail section wasn't glued on securely and came apart at the glue joint which saved the tail section from any damage. The fuselage broke in two just behind the cockpit, the right wing suffered a crack about 2" long out by the tip tank, and the canopy was all cracked.
Took the plane back home and glued everything back together, all things considered it wasn't that bad, took me all of one hour to have it all back together. It didn't look as pretty but at least it was in good flyable condition.
So, take two. I started out about the same spot, rolled on the power and it was an exact repeat of the previous attempt except this time it rolled left instead of right. Everyone at the field said the same thing, that it didn't seem to have enough power. Since the rear of the plane, and the fan/motor/esc were still intact, my buddy held onto the fuselage and I ran it to full throttle, then he did the same while I held onto it and we both felt that our Vipers had more power than the 104 did.
I suggested to my buddy that he fill out a ticket with Motion, which he did, as something wasn't right with this plane. I took the plane home. Later that evening I was thinking about the lack of power and thought that maybe, by some freak thing, the wrong power unit was installed in this plane. I looked at the instructions to see what motor it was supposed to have and then proceeded to take the fan/motor out of the fuselage. It was the correct motor but that was when I discovered that the fan unit was packed with dried on dirt around the whole outside of the fan shroud. This is built up dirt too, not something from the two attempts to fly it, besides our field is surrounded by grass. It was obvious that this was a well used fan/motor.
This is the first reply my buddy got from motion:
From: Motion RC USA Support <support@motionrc.com>
To: Norman
Sent: Mon, Oct 7, 2019 11:06 am
Subject: Re: Lack of power [#T707613]
Norman,
The F-104 shares some of the same characteristics of the real aircraft with one of them being the longer takeoff roll. I notice you are also at an elevation of about 2k feet above sea level in Libby, MT which could also increase the takeoff roll since the EDF unit is making less power due to the air density. Depending on how bad the crash was I am not surprised to hear the fan was damaged and/or look used. What is making you think the damage is not from the crash but from the fan being used prior? Send pics if you can.
Regards,
Andrew
MotionRC
Customer Support
I got a kick out of the part about our altitude.
Anyway, Norman hadn't seen the pictures yet. I emailed him the pictures and a couple days later we met up at the field to fly and I brought the fan/motor with me. We both agree, this unit was used previously. The dirt is built up and is hard. If you rub your finger on it you can't get it to come off, it takes scraping with a sharp tool to remove it.
All we can figure is, someone purchased this plane from Motion, when they received it they removed the fan/motor and replaced it with their worn out fan/motor then made some excuse to returned the plane to Motion. Motion must have looked n the box, saw everything was there and in good condition and put it back on the sales shelf.
In the meantime, Norm sent the pictures to Motion. This is their reply:
From: Motion RC USA Support <support@motionrc.com>
To: Norman
Sent: Fri, Oct 18, 2019 11:07 am
Subject: Re: FW F-104 70mm Issues [#T707613]
Norman,
My supervisor and I took a look at your pictures and situation. What RC airfield are you flying from up there in MT? We located Kootenai RC Flyers, beautiful field BTW, and we do see a nice long paved runway. We also see where there is dirt on both ends in case you run off. Your motor/fan did not come that way with dirt caked in the fan and shroud. In the history of selling RC models Motion RC has never once seen a used model get shipped as new. The F-104 70mm fan is extremely visible when assembling the model so you would for sure have caught that and contacted us immediately if you saw it caked with as much dirt as your pictures show. It looks to us like you have ran it off the end of the runway way a few times attempting to get it to fly.
Sometimes with new models a throttle calibration is needed to set the throttle end-points so you have full range of use but you would know it if the model had only 1/2-3/4 throttle. We both suspect the higher field elevation is having some effect on both power and lift and when you couple that with an unforgiving air frame like the F-104 it could be much more difficult to fly it there. We do not see any clear evidence of a manufacturing defect and until we do Freewing will not offer any time of warranty on your model.
Regards,
-------------------------------
Andrew
MotionRC
Customer Support
There's that altitude thing again,lol. This isn't our first rodeo, Norm's been flying RC for well over 30 years and I over 20 years and we both fly other and bigger jets than the 104, from our field, without any issues
Funny thing, there isn't any dirt in the intake portion or the rear ducting of the airframe,the only dirt is that around the outside of the fan shroud and the fan blades. If this dirt on the fan was from me running off the runway, as they suggest, than why doesn't the inside of the airframe have any of this dirt packed on it?
I've read all kinds of good thing about Motion RC and their customer service, but this leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I'll think twice before I purchase anymore aircraft from Motion RC if this what they consider great customer service.
Dave
Took the plane to the field to maiden it. I used an Admiral 6s3300 battery in it like a lot of guys recommended. We have a 400' long paved runway and I started my take off roll about 25 feet in from one end and used every foot available as the plane didn't seem to be building a lot of speed, not what I had expected anyway. As the runway ran out I gave it some up elevator and it lifted off the runway about 2 to 3 feet high as it rolled to the right (basically stalled) went upside down and hit the ground. Luckily the tail section wasn't glued on securely and came apart at the glue joint which saved the tail section from any damage. The fuselage broke in two just behind the cockpit, the right wing suffered a crack about 2" long out by the tip tank, and the canopy was all cracked.
Took the plane back home and glued everything back together, all things considered it wasn't that bad, took me all of one hour to have it all back together. It didn't look as pretty but at least it was in good flyable condition.
So, take two. I started out about the same spot, rolled on the power and it was an exact repeat of the previous attempt except this time it rolled left instead of right. Everyone at the field said the same thing, that it didn't seem to have enough power. Since the rear of the plane, and the fan/motor/esc were still intact, my buddy held onto the fuselage and I ran it to full throttle, then he did the same while I held onto it and we both felt that our Vipers had more power than the 104 did.
I suggested to my buddy that he fill out a ticket with Motion, which he did, as something wasn't right with this plane. I took the plane home. Later that evening I was thinking about the lack of power and thought that maybe, by some freak thing, the wrong power unit was installed in this plane. I looked at the instructions to see what motor it was supposed to have and then proceeded to take the fan/motor out of the fuselage. It was the correct motor but that was when I discovered that the fan unit was packed with dried on dirt around the whole outside of the fan shroud. This is built up dirt too, not something from the two attempts to fly it, besides our field is surrounded by grass. It was obvious that this was a well used fan/motor.
This is the first reply my buddy got from motion:
From: Motion RC USA Support <support@motionrc.com>
To: Norman
Sent: Mon, Oct 7, 2019 11:06 am
Subject: Re: Lack of power [#T707613]
Norman,
The F-104 shares some of the same characteristics of the real aircraft with one of them being the longer takeoff roll. I notice you are also at an elevation of about 2k feet above sea level in Libby, MT which could also increase the takeoff roll since the EDF unit is making less power due to the air density. Depending on how bad the crash was I am not surprised to hear the fan was damaged and/or look used. What is making you think the damage is not from the crash but from the fan being used prior? Send pics if you can.
Regards,
Andrew
MotionRC
Customer Support
I got a kick out of the part about our altitude.
Anyway, Norman hadn't seen the pictures yet. I emailed him the pictures and a couple days later we met up at the field to fly and I brought the fan/motor with me. We both agree, this unit was used previously. The dirt is built up and is hard. If you rub your finger on it you can't get it to come off, it takes scraping with a sharp tool to remove it.
All we can figure is, someone purchased this plane from Motion, when they received it they removed the fan/motor and replaced it with their worn out fan/motor then made some excuse to returned the plane to Motion. Motion must have looked n the box, saw everything was there and in good condition and put it back on the sales shelf.
In the meantime, Norm sent the pictures to Motion. This is their reply:
From: Motion RC USA Support <support@motionrc.com>
To: Norman
Sent: Fri, Oct 18, 2019 11:07 am
Subject: Re: FW F-104 70mm Issues [#T707613]
Norman,
My supervisor and I took a look at your pictures and situation. What RC airfield are you flying from up there in MT? We located Kootenai RC Flyers, beautiful field BTW, and we do see a nice long paved runway. We also see where there is dirt on both ends in case you run off. Your motor/fan did not come that way with dirt caked in the fan and shroud. In the history of selling RC models Motion RC has never once seen a used model get shipped as new. The F-104 70mm fan is extremely visible when assembling the model so you would for sure have caught that and contacted us immediately if you saw it caked with as much dirt as your pictures show. It looks to us like you have ran it off the end of the runway way a few times attempting to get it to fly.
Sometimes with new models a throttle calibration is needed to set the throttle end-points so you have full range of use but you would know it if the model had only 1/2-3/4 throttle. We both suspect the higher field elevation is having some effect on both power and lift and when you couple that with an unforgiving air frame like the F-104 it could be much more difficult to fly it there. We do not see any clear evidence of a manufacturing defect and until we do Freewing will not offer any time of warranty on your model.
Regards,
-------------------------------
Andrew
MotionRC
Customer Support
There's that altitude thing again,lol. This isn't our first rodeo, Norm's been flying RC for well over 30 years and I over 20 years and we both fly other and bigger jets than the 104, from our field, without any issues
Funny thing, there isn't any dirt in the intake portion or the rear ducting of the airframe,the only dirt is that around the outside of the fan shroud and the fan blades. If this dirt on the fan was from me running off the runway, as they suggest, than why doesn't the inside of the airframe have any of this dirt packed on it?
I've read all kinds of good thing about Motion RC and their customer service, but this leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I'll think twice before I purchase anymore aircraft from Motion RC if this what they consider great customer service.
Dave
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