You must Sign-in or Register to post messages in the Hobby Squawk community
Registration is FREE and only takes a few moments

Register now

Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Official Freewing 70mm F-104 Thread

Collapse
X
Collapse
First Prev Next Last
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • One of the guys I fly with. at our club field, purchased this aircraft. After receiving it and assembling it he decided that he didn't feel comfortable about flying it and asked me if I would set it up and maiden it for him. I told him I'd be more than happy to do so and he gave me the plane to set up the servos etc and maiden it. I took the time to read through all the posts on the 70mm F-104 on both here and on RCGroups to get an idea on what is the best set up and how it handles in the air. I ended up using the recommendations that Alpha posted in post #7.
    Took the plane to the field to maiden it. I used an Admiral 6s3300 battery in it like a lot of guys recommended. We have a 400' long paved runway and I started my take off roll about 25 feet in from one end and used every foot available as the plane didn't seem to be building a lot of speed, not what I had expected anyway. As the runway ran out I gave it some up elevator and it lifted off the runway about 2 to 3 feet high as it rolled to the right (basically stalled) went upside down and hit the ground. Luckily the tail section wasn't glued on securely and came apart at the glue joint which saved the tail section from any damage. The fuselage broke in two just behind the cockpit, the right wing suffered a crack about 2" long out by the tip tank, and the canopy was all cracked.
    Took the plane back home and glued everything back together, all things considered it wasn't that bad, took me all of one hour to have it all back together. It didn't look as pretty but at least it was in good flyable condition.
    So, take two. I started out about the same spot, rolled on the power and it was an exact repeat of the previous attempt except this time it rolled left instead of right. Everyone at the field said the same thing, that it didn't seem to have enough power. Since the rear of the plane, and the fan/motor/esc were still intact, my buddy held onto the fuselage and I ran it to full throttle, then he did the same while I held onto it and we both felt that our Vipers had more power than the 104 did.
    I suggested to my buddy that he fill out a ticket with Motion, which he did, as something wasn't right with this plane. I took the plane home. Later that evening I was thinking about the lack of power and thought that maybe, by some freak thing, the wrong power unit was installed in this plane. I looked at the instructions to see what motor it was supposed to have and then proceeded to take the fan/motor out of the fuselage. It was the correct motor but that was when I discovered that the fan unit was packed with dried on dirt around the whole outside of the fan shroud. This is built up dirt too, not something from the two attempts to fly it, besides our field is surrounded by grass. It was obvious that this was a well used fan/motor.
    This is the first reply my buddy got from motion:

    From: Motion RC USA Support <support@motionrc.com>
    To: Norman
    Sent: Mon, Oct 7, 2019 11:06 am
    Subject: Re: Lack of power [#T707613]

    Norman,

    The F-104 shares some of the same characteristics of the real aircraft with one of them being the longer takeoff roll. I notice you are also at an elevation of about 2k feet above sea level in Libby, MT which could also increase the takeoff roll since the EDF unit is making less power due to the air density. Depending on how bad the crash was I am not surprised to hear the fan was damaged and/or look used. What is making you think the damage is not from the crash but from the fan being used prior? Send pics if you can.

    Regards,

    Andrew
    MotionRC
    Customer Support

    I got a kick out of the part about our altitude.

    Anyway, Norman hadn't seen the pictures yet. I emailed him the pictures and a couple days later we met up at the field to fly and I brought the fan/motor with me. We both agree, this unit was used previously. The dirt is built up and is hard. If you rub your finger on it you can't get it to come off, it takes scraping with a sharp tool to remove it.
    All we can figure is, someone purchased this plane from Motion, when they received it they removed the fan/motor and replaced it with their worn out fan/motor then made some excuse to returned the plane to Motion. Motion must have looked n the box, saw everything was there and in good condition and put it back on the sales shelf.
    In the meantime, Norm sent the pictures to Motion. This is their reply:

    From: Motion RC USA Support <support@motionrc.com>
    To: Norman
    Sent: Fri, Oct 18, 2019 11:07 am
    Subject: Re: FW F-104 70mm Issues [#T707613]

    Norman,

    My supervisor and I took a look at your pictures and situation. What RC airfield are you flying from up there in MT? We located Kootenai RC Flyers, beautiful field BTW, and we do see a nice long paved runway. We also see where there is dirt on both ends in case you run off. Your motor/fan did not come that way with dirt caked in the fan and shroud. In the history of selling RC models Motion RC has never once seen a used model get shipped as new. The F-104 70mm fan is extremely visible when assembling the model so you would for sure have caught that and contacted us immediately if you saw it caked with as much dirt as your pictures show. It looks to us like you have ran it off the end of the runway way a few times attempting to get it to fly.

    Sometimes with new models a throttle calibration is needed to set the throttle end-points so you have full range of use but you would know it if the model had only 1/2-3/4 throttle. We both suspect the higher field elevation is having some effect on both power and lift and when you couple that with an unforgiving air frame like the F-104 it could be much more difficult to fly it there. We do not see any clear evidence of a manufacturing defect and until we do Freewing will not offer any time of warranty on your model.

    Regards,

    -------------------------------
    Andrew
    MotionRC
    Customer Support

    There's that altitude thing again,lol. This isn't our first rodeo, Norm's been flying RC for well over 30 years and I over 20 years and we both fly other and bigger jets than the 104, from our field, without any issues
    Funny thing, there isn't any dirt in the intake portion or the rear ducting of the airframe,the only dirt is that around the outside of the fan shroud and the fan blades. If this dirt on the fan was from me running off the runway, as they suggest, than why doesn't the inside of the airframe have any of this dirt packed on it?

    I've read all kinds of good thing about Motion RC and their customer service, but this leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I'll think twice before I purchase anymore aircraft from Motion RC if this what they consider great customer service.

    Dave

    Comment


    • Hi Dave,

      That is a crying shame. Can you just imagine how may people try to get Motion to warranty all sorts of things. It's the nature of the hobby and business. Motions planes aren't perfect man. I think there quality is in the top tier for what they sell, but not perfect. I think if you had found this fan in a bright shiny new plane, and not one that has been crashed twice, your case would have been much more compelling. For what it's worth, I believe you, but that helps a whole lot, my believing you and 2 bucks will get you a cup of coffee at Denny's. I have more than a few Motion planes. But I'm king of neurotic, always inspecting every little thing. I've never found one like this, but I have had a few EDF's that just didn't make the power I would expect. I usually just can the fan and replace it with something else. But I have never had one new that looked like that. I think is reasonable that someone might order a plane, same plane they might have, (with a messed up fan) switch the fan, and send the plane back for a refund. This game is played all over the place, happens to all sorts of business all the time. I think it sucks! Good luck to you.

      Best Regards
      Woody

      Comment


      • Hi all. My first post here. I've had this 104 since Aug 2015. I really love it. 53 flights on her. Had lots of road rash on the tip tanks from crosswind landings, and a few scrapes from some bouncers! (Have to keep that power up on final.) Somewhere along the line I crashed a plane I was using an AS3X rx in, so transplanted it to this 104, and what an improvement, But I was still getting the wing wobble at high speed. I noticed the aileron hinges were quite sloppy. So I was starting to replace them, and thought, I don't really care for the camo scheme on the Starfighter. It's a STAR-fighter after all! And the road rash and bubbled foam in the cockpit needed attention. So out came the bondo (Light-weight filler) and paint. I love the NASA F-104 scheme so that's what's in the works, slowly but surely. I also transplanted a Freewing 12 blade 3048-2150KV edf into it, as a fellow pilot at the field had a FW Yak-130 that was a rocket compared to my 104, and that's what powers that. Didn't notice a huge speed difference though, but more vertical. On that note, I had a thought on intake air on the 104. The cheater holes on the bottom are squared off to the air flow at the leading edge. Now I know this would take some real aerodynamics and wind tunnel testing etc to really confirm, but I figured if the air passing outside the cheater holes is going faster than the air going past on the inside of the duct, then according to Bernoulli, air would be getting sucked out of the cheater holes! So I sanded them to theoretically create a low pressure area to pull air in. Haven't flown it this way so it's yet to see if it does anything at all. Anyway, just thought I'd share. Merry Christmas and happy flying!
        Click image for larger version

Name:	image_48642.jpg
Views:	781
Size:	62.3 KB
ID:	224746Click image for larger version

Name:	image_48644.jpg
Views:	697
Size:	35.5 KB
ID:	224747
        Click image for larger version  Name:	NASA.jpg Views:	0 Size:	51.5 KB ID:	224751

        Comment


        • Awesome

          Comment


          • I use thumb tacks on the bottom of tanks to protect against scrapes.
             

            Comment


            • Finished my repaint. I wish I did this a long time ago! Now for us to clean our field from the flooding, finish our LOA with the FAA, and for the zombie apocalypse to settle down...

              Comment


              • I have always wanted an F-104. It definitely keeps you on your toes lol. I flew mine on a 4000 and really enjoyed it my first touch and go wasn’t the best but I’m starting to get the hang of it. It’s a harder airplane to keep orientations with. Definitely a bird for the more advanced pilot. It’s nice that it’s not super heavy loaded. Although the 90 looks amazing I’m sure the 70 probably flys better. Hopefully one day I will get my hands on the big one it’s one of the few Freewing jets I haven’t tried yet. I’d definitely get an F-104 again and I’m going to drop the inrunner in it next to see if we can get her over the 150 mph mark 😉
                 

                Comment


                • Here is my customized F-104. I have not flown it yet.
                  I am wondering about the CofG in the manual.
                  Is it correct ? , it seems to far forward.
                  Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_1646.JPG
Views:	622
Size:	103.9 KB
ID:	257344
                  Attached Files

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Daiglo View Post
                    Here is my customized F-104. I have not flown it yet.
                    I am wondering about the CofG in the manual.
                    Is it correct ? , it seems to far forward.
                    Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_1646.JPG
Views:	622
Size:	103.9 KB
ID:	257344
                    I maidened mine on Sunday with the stock CG and I agree with you. However I'm going be very cautious about moving my CG on her. Probably 2mm at a time.

                    Comment


                    • Maidened it yesterday using Alpha's recommendations flew very similar to my Freewing F-16, did not even need any trim , but did reduce the elevator compensation for full flap. Very pleased with it.

                      Comment


                      • Home-made flickering afterburner on my F-104

                        Comment


                        • Now that this model is an orphan, I designed some landing gear braces to improve its longevity.

                          A brace for the nosewheel leg on the Freewing 70mm F-104. Helps to prevent bending on a hard landing. The main gear brace just screws on over the retract flange. Also a replacement pitot, since the part is very vulnerable to damage.


                          They're designed around the 70mm F-16 struts, which drop right in to the F-104 and are much nicer than the stock struts.

                          I have 2 of these F-104s and they're both in pretty good shape still.

                          Comment

                          Working...
                          X