Help Protect the RC Flying Hobby

[CVA59]

I doubt we will ever really be listened to at all.

No sir, you can forget that. As far as they are concerned we are part of the problem so they feel no need to listen to anything we have to say as their latest ruling shows.

[Hoomi]

Here are some examples of why the FAA and others consider our hobby to be a threat.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ioB8RQkh7vU

Some of those "near miss" videos have been debunked as fake. In a related story, one such video that showed a drone actually crashing into a small plane, the supposed combined speed of the depicted drone and aircraft were greater than actually possible. We're seeing a lot of sensationalism intended to drive emotions, and too much of it is not backed by verifiable facts.

https://www.dji.com/newsroom/news/dji-demands-withdrawal-of-misleading-drone-collision-video

[CVA59]

Some of those "near miss" videos have been debunked as fake. In a related story, one such video that showed a drone actually crashing into a small plane, the supposed combined speed of the depicted drone and aircraft were greater than actually possible. We're seeing a lot of sensationalism intended to drive emotions, and too much of it is not backed by verifiable facts.

https://www.dji.com/newsroom/news/dj...ollision-video

And I will agree with you on that 100% as well. That is the same deplorable mindset they have on gun control. Hmmm, let's make it into something that it really is not. Instead of going after the lunatics and their evil mental illness, just take away the guns, that will fix everything, LOL, hahahaha. That mindset just shows how really stupid they are and their agenda is. Some people today have literally lost their minds! It is unreal to hear what some of our people in DC are saying these days. Don't want to get too deep into politics but the destruction of our freedoms are apparently not real picky about who they go after anymore.

[Hoomi]

What is also disturbing is just how many people will believe the fake videos and sensationalist stories.

Ironically, the consumer product most often used on a reckless and unsafe manner - and one which many of the manufacturers depict being used in such manner in their advertising - is dismissed as only being unsafe when operated unsafely. The automobile is associated with more injuries and deaths every year than any other consumer product. 2010 statistics showed 33,000 deaths and 2.2 million injuries from automobiles in the United States. By comparison, the aircraft crashes on 9/11 caused roughly 3,000 deaths and 6000 injuries, with those numbers eventually increasing due to long-term effects of hazardous material exposure.

What we could do, either accidentally or purposefully, with our RC aircraft, is minor compared to what we do with our automobiles every year.

Every.

Year.

Despite the statistics, people continue to think it won't happen to them, and continue to drive unsafely.

We'd save more lives, just vigorously enforcing the laws against distracted driving. The average cell phone user is more dangerous to public safety, than our airplanes or drones.

[CVA59]

What is also disturbing is just how many people will believe the fake videos and sensationalist stories.

Ironically, the consumer product most often used on a reckless and unsafe manner - and one which many of the manufacturers depict being used in such manner in their advertising - is dismissed as only being unsafe when operated unsafely. The automobile is associated with more injuries and deaths every year than any other consumer product. 2010 statistics showed 33,000 deaths and 2.2 million injuries from automobiles in the United States. By comparison, the aircraft crashes on 9/11 caused roughly 3,000 deaths and 6000 injuries, with those numbers eventually increasing due to long-term effects of hazardous material exposure.

What we could do, either accidentally or purposefully, with our RC aircraft, is minor compared to what we do with our automobiles every year.

Every.

Year.

Despite the statistics, people continue to think it won't happen to them, and continue to drive unsafely.

We'd save more lives, just vigorously enforcing the laws against distracted driving. The average cell phone user is more dangerous to public safety, than our airplanes or drones.

Correct! If these brain dead people would stop texting and driving that would decrease traffic deaths big time. I see it every time I go somewhere. Texting is killing people and there are no real efficient laws nor the needed level of enforcement to stop it. Yet, they want to restrict our hobby because of a few bad apples???? It's a mindset that has to change and because the ones with the most power (FAA) who are screaming the loudest (FAA) are the ones who are getting their way on this topic.

[Twowingtj]

Ok, I agree with you guys. However, I'm not trying to open a can of worms here but, how do you all feel NOW about being a part of AMA. How much if any will things change from an AMA standpoint in light is this recent ruling? I am NOT knocking the AMA, I am and have always been onboard with the AMA. I am just now wondering with changes looming what part AMA will play into the protection of the individual modeler and the clubs. ???

I happen to be an AMA Dist II Assoc VP. I do know that the AMA is currently working very hard to protect our hobby, clubs and members. I don't have inside information about all of the work that was done, but do have a feel for the reasoning and some of the work going on. .

Once AMA saw that the new legislation was going to happen, and 336 was going to get repealed, they had to look at how best to protect us moving forward. The path chosen was to ensure that the AMA would have a say in how many of the new changes would be rolled out. The new legislation also directs the FAA to recognize and work with CBOs(Comminity Based Organizations) like AMA, to develope roleout plans and specific guidance for implimentation. One example is the new requirement for us to take an airspace operation knowledge test. AMA is basically developing much of the test since they are the field experts as far as safely operating models in the National Airspace. From what I understand, it won't be a memorized knowledge test, but will likely be an open book test. Much will likely come from the AMA safety rules and handbook. They are also trying to get an exemption for us from the 400ft AGL requirement and much more.

I mentioned before that the FAA really did not want this. It creates a lot of extra work for them with no real increase of funding or staffing. It is a very fluid situation and much work is being done. Once things are more solidified we will be informed. For now the guidance is to just continue flying safely as we always have.

[CVA59]

I happen to be an AMA Dist II Assoc VP. I do know that the AMA is currently working very hard to protect our hobby, clubs and members. I don't have inside information about all of the work that was done, but do have a feel for the reasoning and some of the work going on. .

Once AMA saw that the new legislation was going to happen, and 336 was going to get repealed, they had to look at how best to protect us moving forward. The path chosen was to ensure that the AMA would have a say in how many of the new changes would be rolled out. The new legislation also directs the FAA to recognize and work with CBOs(Comminity Based Organizations) like AMA, to develope roleout plans and specific guidance for implimentation. One example is the new requirement for us to take an airspace operation knowledge test. AMA is basically developing much of the test since they are the field experts as far as safely operating models in the National Airspace. From what I understand, it won't be a memorized knowledge test, but will likely be an open book test. Much will likely come from the AMA safety rules and handbook. They are also trying to get an exemption for us from the 400ft AGL requirement and much more.

I mentioned before that the FAA really did not want this. It creates a lot of extra work for them with no real increase of funding or staffing. It is a very fluid situation and much work is being done. Once things are more solidified we will be informed. For now the guidance is to just continue flying safely as we always have.

Thank you for the clarification. Just to reiterate and make myself very clear again. I'M NOT trashing the AMA. I am a supporter of the AMA and always will be. My "soapbox" is 100% entirely towards the bad apples and the ones in DC who refuse to understand that we are not the issue. It is my most sincere hope that the new rules will not affect our hobby in any significant way. I just wish people "up there in DC" would just leave us alone! Again, if you have 1 child out of 3 that is misbehaving, punish that one child not the all 3. Of course, I know to them, I would be considered crazy for thinking that way but that's how I feel. Go after the ones who are causing the issues. Thanks for posting Twowingtj

[Twowingtj]

You're absolutely right CVA59. It is the actions of a few that wind up impacting the rest of us. And it certainly is frustrating. The best we can do at this point is wait until the dust settles and just keep enjoying the hobby we are passionate about:Cool:.

[CVA59]

You're absolutely right CVA59. It is the actions of a few that wind up impacting the rest of us. And it certainly is frustrating. The best we can do at this point is wait until the dust settles and just keep enjoying the hobby we are passionate about:Cool:.

Well, unfortunately that seems to be the way of the world and probably always will be. Yes indeed, I will always enjoy R/C stuff no matter what those clowns decide. ;)

[Hardway]

Another "Come and Take It" flag..... :( Fly free!!!

[rifleman_btx]

Yeah i dont think they want to take it that far. Lets just say

[Valkpilot]

I happen to be an AMA Dist II Assoc VP. I do know that the AMA is currently working very hard to protect our hobby, clubs and members. I don't have inside information about all of the work that was done, but do have a feel for the reasoning and some of the work going on. .

Once AMA saw that the new legislation was going to happen, and 336 was going to get repealed, they had to look at how best to protect us moving forward. The path chosen was to ensure that the AMA would have a say in how many of the new changes would be rolled out. The new legislation also directs the FAA to recognize and work with CBOs(Comminity Based Organizations) like AMA, to develope roleout plans and specific guidance for implimentation. One example is the new requirement for us to take an airspace operation knowledge test. AMA is basically developing much of the test since they are the field experts as far as safely operating models in the National Airspace. From what I understand, it won't be a memorized knowledge test, but will likely be an open book test. Much will likely come from the AMA safety rules and handbook. They are also trying to get an exemption for us from the 400ft AGL requirement and much more.

I mentioned before that the FAA really did not want this. It creates a lot of extra work for them with no real increase of funding or staffing. It is a very fluid situation and much work is being done. Once things are more solidified we will be informed. For now the guidance is to just continue flying safely as we always have.

My opinion from your statement is that the AMA will do all the basic work for free, and then the FAA will take that work, decide the appropriate fees to charge hobbyists for the various services, and it'll be either computer based or an additional duty for the local FAA reps.

[boomer108]

So here I am he guy who obeys the rule and flys safe and I have to take a test of my knowledge to satisfy some Jack##ss politician and the morons flying drones will continue to do what they want and be unsafe because they won't be taking a test nor do they belong to the AMA. So nothing will change and the responsible flyers will get screwed. Makes sense to me!:Angry:

[Hardway]

So here I am he guy who obeys the rule and flys safe and I have to take a test of my knowledge to satisfy some Jack##ss politician and the morons flying drones will continue to do what they want and be unsafe because they won't be taking a test nor do they belong to the AMA. So nothing will change and the responsible flyers will get screwed. Makes sense to me!:Angry:

Yes, just like all the other empty arguments and laws.... Not a Rat's Ass for those who could care less and disregard them, and a gigantic burden to those who do...….. I will fly and eat meat!!! LOL

[fhhuber]

There is a technological answer to texting and driving... you can DL an ap that disables texting (and other functions) when the cell phone is going more than X mph.

Get the cell service companies to force the ap. Problem eradicated (nobody could text while above that speed)

I have chosen to put the ap on my phone because it also turns off the sound/vibration saying there was a text or a phone call incoming while the phone is above that speed. (not sure of the speed for my ap, but it has only triggered when I have been driving)
I hate the distraction of the cell phone ringing when I am driving.

Some of the quadcopter (I hate calling them drones, every unmanned, man made, flying device can be called a drone) makers have put codes into the GPS firmware to enforce certain no-fly zones for their devices. They could easily put a 400 ft AGL limit (by GPS and their mapping system) in also.

There actually are potential ways to enforce the rules on a large portion of the populace.

[Hoomi]

There is a technological answer to texting and driving... you can DL an ap that disables texting (and other functions) when the cell phone is going more than X mph.

Get the cell service companies to force the ap. Problem eradicated (nobody could text while above that speed)

I have chosen to put the ap on my phone because it also turns off the sound/vibration saying there was a text or a phone call incoming while the phone is above that speed. (not sure of the speed for my ap, but it has only triggered when I have been driving)
I hate the distraction of the cell phone ringing when I am driving.

Some of the quadcopter (I hate calling them drones, every unmanned, man made, flying device can be called a drone) makers have put codes into the GPS firmware to enforce certain no-fly zones for their devices. They could easily put a 400 ft AGL limit (by GPS and their mapping system) in also.

There actually are potential ways to enforce the rules on a large portion of the populace.

The drawback of an app such as that, is that it also disables the messaging for someone who is a passenger in the vehicle. The issue isn't the technology. It's the self-discipline to use the technology in a safe and responsible manner. I don't worry about silencing my phone while I'm driving. If it rings or alerts of a text while I'm driving, it remains in my pocket until I'm stopped somewhere safe to check it. If I'm anticipating a message important enough that I need to respond right away, then when the alert goes off, I can pull into the next available parking lot or other such place where I can read and reply without creating a hazard. If it's a phone call and it's important, they'll leave a voice mail. If they don't leave a VM, then it must not have been that important (overwhelming majority of calls I receive are scams anyway, so it doesn't bother me at all to miss those calls).

With the drones, the code in the firmware is typically managed through the controller. DJI has updated their app for stricter no-fly zones, and what people do to get around that, is use third-party apps. To be honest, after the last time I flew my DJI Spark, to try and get some aerial video of land a friend of ours has for sale, I was ready to dump the DJI GO4 app as well. Despite the fact that I was well outside any restricted airspace, I had a message informing me I was in such space, and that I needed to acknowledge that message to clear it from my screen. The problem was, there was no way to acknowledge the message. I had driven over a hundred miles to do this video, to have my drone crippled by Nanny-code. Had I been using a third-party app such as Litchi, it would not have been an issue.

We had the red light cameras here in Tucson for a while, until a lawsuit, claiming the cameras were an invasion of privacy, eliminated them. Red light running is rampant in this town, to the tune of seeing several cars run the red light at EVERY cycle of the light. At the camera monitored intersections, red light running diminished significantly, because the habitual violators knew they would likely receive an expensive citation in the mail. Now that the cameras are gone, the violations are back to typical levels. You can bet, if an app were installed on phones to disable text and voice communications over a certain speed, there would be a lawsuit filed within the week, and the app would be struck down. In addition, you can bet there would be an app on the market very soon, to disable or fool the restrictive app. Regardless of the technology, it always comes back to whether people will be self-disciplined enough to obey the rules.

[fhhuber]

Laws are always written to deal with the people that have the least common sense and they always impact the people who really didn't need to be limited.

Any use of a cell phone by anyone in a vehicle is potentially distracting to the driver. I've had a passenger insist on shoving the phone in my face, while going down the freeway, because he wanted me to watch youtube...
I stopped. He walked from there.

[CVA59]

There is a technological answer to texting and driving... you can DL an ap that disables texting (and other functions) when the cell phone is going more than X mph.

Get the cell service companies to force the ap. Problem eradicated (nobody could text while above that speed)

I have chosen to put the ap on my phone because it also turns off the sound/vibration saying there was a text or a phone call incoming while the phone is above that speed. (not sure of the speed for my ap, but it has only triggered when I have been driving)
I hate the distraction of the cell phone ringing when I am driving.

Some of the quadcopter (I hate calling them drones, every unmanned, man made, flying device can be called a drone) makers have put codes into the GPS firmware to enforce certain no-fly zones for their devices. They could easily put a 400 ft AGL limit (by GPS and their mapping system) in also.

There actually are potential ways to enforce the rules on a large portion of the populace.

You are correct. However, you are forgetting, NO one is going to DL any app that will restrict their texting power. If they had that kind of discipline, then all they would have to do turn the phone off and lay it on the seat. I give the kind of people who text and drive NO CREDIT for anything. The makers of phones and cars will not install such devices due to an intense amount of backlash from the public real or perceived. Additionally, there is always the idiots who will sue because they will claim that kind of enforcement will violate their rights. This is an issue that should have been done before the first cell phone was released to the public. They already have hands free in cars for talking but the texting is still the biggest issue and until someone comes forth with a plan that appeases the public and manufactures alike, nothing is going to change and innocent people will continue dying on our roads. I have seen too many people die in car wrecks from texting and yet I have witnessed my fellow officers texting while driving on duty so where does the insanity end? Cell phones, although good in some ways are a huge threat to society mainly from the standpoint of distracting texting and driving.

It's not so much the lack of Laws as the lack of consistent enforcement. Police officers cannot be everywhere all the time. I can leave work right now and between work and home, I can spot anywhere between 5-10 texting drivers EVERY DAY. Yes, I am ALWAYS looking.

If it were up to me alone, As soon as the cars ignition is turned to the on position, the cell phone would be completely disabled EXCEPT for making a 911 call. Of course, I would be hunted down and shot in the head millions of times but regardless that is how I would fix it.

[Valkpilot]

It seems like the majority of the true problems are FPV quads, so either regulate them s you would a normal aircraft or ban them. I've only heard of one "almost" with fixed wing aircraft. It was a Jihaddi wannabe
who bought several large EDFs under the plan of loading them with explosives and flying them into the Senate Office Building, causing it to be evacuated, and having a "ground team" snipe the evacuees. Unfortunately for him, the people he sought out for the ground team was actually an FBI sting.

[rifleman_btx]

Exactly totally agree