Official Freewing 64mm Lippisch P.15 Thread

[davecee]

There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that the cheater below the wing is the primary reason for the dip on launch and when powering up from slow, level flight. It will also cause a ballooning effect wheh throttle is chopped. Adding reflex on a switch or playing with the thrust line is treating the symptoms, not the disease. I've seen this cheater effect on 3 different airframes that had the cheater hole or holes directly below the wings. One was quite odd. On take off the plane would not ROG despite quite a good ground speed. I chopped the throttle and the plane leapt off the runway.

[JayP]

Hey, no worries. Go with what works, yeah?

[ridgerunner]

Another shot from the maiden day...

[TerryC]

Hey guys, I'm looking for a first EDF. Would this be a good first? Thanks!

[JayP]

Probably not, honestly. It’s pretty small and can be maybe a little too quick/responsive, and has a quirk or two that some solid EDF experience will help temper. For a first one, maybe a F86 or Viper from freewing or eflite respectively, or like an A10.

[Alpha]

Hey guys, I'm looking for a first EDF. Would this be a good first? Thanks!

TerryC Hi Terry, JayP is right, I wouldn't recommend the P.15 as a first EDF. On the one hand, it's a very docile and stable flyer at low throttle setting, which is ideal for beginners. But on the other hand, it's fast and higher throttle, and it has a slim profile as a flying wing, so it can disappear quickly. Both of these characteristics, "Fast" and "Disappear Quick" are not ideal for beginners.

The Freewing 64mm Panther is a better first option, or the 64mm F-22 or 3s F-18.

[billyd]

Hi folks. I just got this plane and joined the forum. I've read people get better performance with this jet blocking off the hand holes. So I developed a 3D printed design that matches up pretty well. Just glue in place. Attached is a picture of them in place and a zip file containing the stl to print. Enjoy! [ATTACH]n249171[/ATTACH]

[James]

Hi folks. I just got this plane and joined the forum. I've read people get better performance with this jet blocking off the hand holes. So I developed a 3D printed design that matches up pretty well. Just glue in place. Attached is a picture of them in place and a zip file containing the stl to print. Enjoy! [ATTACH]n249171[/ATTACH]

Good work billyd, thanks for joining squawk and nice work on the .stl. I never tried to do anything to my lippsich's. But I may give these a shot just for the heck of it

[xviper]

If the hand holes are plugged, how do you hold it to throw it? This plane can, at times depending on the how it's thrown, require quite a good toss.

[billyd]

Good work billyd, thanks for joining squawk and nice work on the .stl. I never tried to do anything to my lippsich's. But I may give these a shot just for the heck of it

Thanks. It fits better than in the photos. I've heard plugging the vents will stop the throttle from changing pitch and makes the Jet faster. We'll see.

[billyd]

If the hand holes are plugged, how do you hold it to throw it? This plane can, at times depending on the how it's thrown, require quite a good toss.

Actually there is still a fair amount to grip. More than on many of my aircraft. However mine has a full fpv setup, so I will be using a bungee launcher.

[Alpha]

billyd Welcome to Hobby Squawk!

I designed our P.15 to be able to fly without the aux inlets, and it's true that without them and thus less turbulence, the model flies faster. The tradeoff is your static thrust available during a hand launch condition. With less airflow readily available to the fan, you'll need to help "feed" it, with either a faster headwind, faster hand launch, or both.

[billyd]

billyd Welcome to Hobby Squawk!

I designed our P.15 to be able to fly without the aux inlets, and it's true that without them and thus less turbulence, the model flies faster. The tradeoff is your static thrust available during a hand launch condition. With less airflow readily available to the fan, you'll need to help "feed" it, with either a faster headwind, faster hand launch, or both.

The plane is beautiful, very nice design! I just have to experiment. I've added a rudder (which I guess a lot of people do) and I put a functioning airspeed sensor (Matek ASPD-7002) pitot in place of the plastic "antenna". I also put a matek f722-wing flight controller and gps. Running INAV. Using a tbs unify pro32 vtx and a runcam racer 3 camera in the cockpit, and a TBS crossfire nano receiver for flight control.

I won't try to hand launch it. I don't think I'd be able to. I have a bungee launcher I built copying this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-8I01-FTx8

Ps any plans to release a bigger version of the P.15? Like a 70 or 90? That would be amazing.

[mr.frankenjet]

I made a cart to launch mine as I really don't like hand launching DF planes plus it was a fun project.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RAndp2XwDnc

the 4 cell fan/ setup for the 64mm is EXCELLENT !

[billyd]

Ok all finished. I put the matek fc in the cockpit and I regret it somewhat. For one it makes getting the cg tougher with a larger battery and also, there's no way to make the wires neat because they have to pull out whenever you remove the canopy to charge the battery.

So it's ready to fly and it should be fine, but I will probably buy another cockpit and move the FC to the top of the fuse behind the hatch which will require cutting a large section of foam out to be able to get it back there (and gluing it back on). I will also have to connect a micro usb extension and leave it connected to the fc because once installed it will be really hard to get to it. But it's the better way to go overall.

Also cutting all that foam out of the canopy weakened it, and I'm afraid it might vibrate in flight causing problems for the FC. I'd make a hatch on the fuse to be able to remove the FC as needed but that might weaken the fuse too much so I'd rather glue it back together once installed.

Here are some pics of my IB crazy launcher with some special 3D prints I designed to be able to use it for smaller aircraft like this one. As an edf and heavier, this would require a really strong throw. The launcher is much more reliable.

[davecee]

If the hand holes are plugged, how do you hold it to throw it? This plane can, at times depending on the how it's thrown, require quite a good toss.

I use a side arm launch on all my small flying wings.Easy Peasy

[xviper]

I use a side arm launch on all my small flying wings.Easy Peasy

I have never been able to perfect that kind of throw. The thing usually crashes and burns. I'm more of a Frisbee thrower but only for wings and underhand throw for things like pylon racers. This one, I keep the hand holes for launching. It's fast enough as it is. I do, however, have a Mirage that I've removed the gear that I need to figure out how to throw it myself. So far, someone else has baseball chucked it for me. It's a bit on the heavy side and awkward to hold to self throw.

[davecee]

First of all, be sure to plug the cheaters, or it'll still dive on launch. Don't do a wrist snap and impart a rotational force as you release. it's surprizingly easy. I've got a couple of larger planes (70 mm Durafly Vampire, and a 70mm Rc Lander F9F Panther) in the assembly line that I intend to try with this method. I grasp with my right hand, finger tips about 1/3 of the half span in from the wing tip, thumb on the bottom and other 4 fingers on top. Gentle acceleration, don't try to "whip" it. You can see how gently I threw the P-15. Practice with a length of 1X6. When you can sidearm it without introducing any significant spin to it, you've got it. The Mirage should work fine. Deltas do great in slow high alpha flight. A little up trim on a switch, full throttle as you start the swing and give it a go..

[billyd]

Well long story short I had a really nice third flight with my p15. The first two were "interesting". The maiden involved taking off and having to land less than a minute later when I realized I had left the vtx in low power mode. So I lost the picture quickly, ripped off my goggles and landed LOS and did a bad job of that banging up the nose and putting a slight tear in one of the intakes. So repairs were done. The second flight I was able to do the autotrim in INAV and get it flying straight in level in manual and acro modes. The landing was better but the p15 likes to slide forever, and it slid through field and into bushes. This time putting 3 dents in the port wing and also bending the edge of the left elevon. So boiling water and a little bit more glue and back for the third flight. By now the Jet is looking 10 years old. But third time was the charm. I did the autotune flight for INAV which involves violent stick moves in each direction (which was alot of fun) and the jets flies really great. Rolls were really true with no dipping. Pitch lack authority in comparison but that is not unusual.

I've ordered another one because I want to change the layout of equipment. I know exactly what has to be done now and I'm pretty sure I'm done beating the heck out it lol. I was going to buy the foam parts only, but the whole pnp is only like 10 more.

ps I ended up cutting away the front "glass" on the canopy as it degraded the video too much. It didn't look bad on the bench but in flight it was no good.

[thumbs]

Think about my first EDF. Looking at the Panther, F86 and the P15. Actually I am leaning towards the P15. I have watched many videos on these planes and it seems the P15 seems to be a bit quieter that the others. Is this true of just comes out that way on the videos? I know these things are not inherently quiet but I fly at parks and need to keep the noise down as much as possible. It sounds like at slower speeds the P15 really isn't to bad on noise. How about the other two?
This would be my firs EDF. What would you suggest for a park flyer kinda guy?

thanks