Official Freewing F/A-18C Hornet 90mm EDF Thread

[Door Guns]

Thanks for the kind words!

[Door Guns]

Exhaust nozzles and cannon detail....

[Carlbrainiac]

has anyone done the in runner upgrade? Just wondering how it's performance differs and how it affects flight times?

[Hugh Wiedman]

has anyone done the in runner upgrade? Just wondering how it's performance differs and how it affects flight times?

Interested in the same thing, I built my F-18 Canadian Demo with the stock 3748-1750 Kv outrunner and with all the mods, it weighs in with an extra 1.2 pounds over the base stock jet. Even so, it flies well (not as fast as a friends BA) but I fly off of grass (still get's off the deck ok with flaps) and with a RT 6250 mah 35C battery I get well over 5 minutes. I'll fly it more as is, but thinking at some time soon I'm going to put the inrunner in it. I know that DCORSAIR put the 12 blade 4068-1835 Kv inrunner in (and the same in other jets of his) and he said it was a drop in fit. I have that fan in my F-16 and love it, seems to me the 12 blade has a better sound, more like a Whoosh, over the 9 blade fans that seem to whine more. That fan is now back in stock and costs $158. Of course the other option is the 9 blade 3672-1900 Kv inrunner that now comes standard in the BA F-18 version and costs $89 but is not currently in stock.

I know next to nothing about EDF's but what is the difference (besides cost) to the 12 blade inrunner and the 9 blade inrunner (ratings and Kv are similar, but not sure what that ultimately means in performance). I also assume the 12 blade is heavier, which would not be a problem for me since I had to add 1 1/2 ounces of lead in the elevator bay just to get it to CG with all the other weight from the modifications (mostly from the cockpit) so I probably could remove that lead with the new 12 blade inrunner. Of course I'd have to change my LED afterburners from the twin burners on the outrunner and get new twin burners for the inrunner, but what's a little more cash outflow? Does a 12 blade give more low end thrust and a 9 blade more top end speed (like a prop on boats)? I don't really need more top end speed but more "guts" on take-off of grass would be nice.

Looking forward to hearing all you brainiacs weigh in on this.

[DCORSAIR]

Interested in the same thing, I built my F-18 Canadian Demo with the stock 3748-1750 Kv outrunner and with all the mods, it weighs in with an extra 1.2 pounds over the base stock jet. Even so, it flies well (not as fast as a friends BA) but I fly off of grass (still get's off the deck ok with flaps) and with a RT 6250 mah 35C battery I get well over 5 minutes. I'll fly it more as is, but thinking at some time soon I'm going to put the inrunner in it. I know that DCORSAIR put the 12 blade 4068-1835 Kv inrunner in (and the same in other jets of his) and he said it was a drop in fit. I have that fan in my F-16 and love it, seems to me the 12 blade has a better sound, more like a Whoosh, over the 9 blade fans that seem to whine more. That fan is now back in stock and costs $158. Of course the other option is the 9 blade 3672-1900 Kv inrunner that now comes standard in the BA F-18 version and costs $89 but is not currently in stock.

I know next to nothing about EDF's but what is the difference (besides cost) to the 12 blade inrunner and the 9 blade inrunner (ratings and Kv are similar, but not sure what that ultimately means in performance). I also assume the 12 blade is heavier, which would not be a problem for me since I had to add 1 1/2 ounces of lead in the elevator bay just to get it to CG with all the other weight from the modifications (mostly from the cockpit) so I probably could remove that lead with the new 12 blade inrunner. Of course I'd have to change my LED afterburners from the twin burners on the outrunner and get new twin burners for the inrunner, but what's a little more cash outflow? Does a 12 blade give more low end thrust and a 9 blade more top end speed (like a prop on boats)? I don't really need more top end speed but more "guts" on take-off of grass would be nice.

Looking forward to hearing all you brainiacs weigh in on this.

The inrunner does weigh more and if your looking for longer flight times well not much better, the 1835kv is great for sound and thrust on take off, I installed the 1835kv in my F-15, F-16, F-18, T-45, Yak 130, F-4, and the F-22, where I saw the best performance was on take off and climb out, it is so smooth you don't really notice how quickly you gain altitude, and for thrust, it helped the T-45. F-16, F-22, Yak 130 and the F-15 on climb out, as for speed, F-16, Yak 130 really improved top end speed, the rest did to but not much better than the stock units, as for flight times, I found that the inrunner was an improvement, if not better than the stock units, not by much but a little longer flight times because you can cruise and still go fast with the 12 blade, and the sound is great, yes it worked great in the F-18 as well.

Oh and did I mention how smooooooth the 1835kv is, I just couldn't take the 9 blade whine, that's really the main reason I changed all mine to be honest, but it is a better performer all around as well.

[Hugh Wiedman]

The inrunner does weigh more and if your looking for longer flight times well not much better, the 1835kv is great for sound and thrust on take off, I installed the 1835kv in my F-15, F-16, F-18, T-45, Yak 130, F-4, and the F-22, where I saw the best performance was on take off and climb out, it is so smooth you don't really notice how quickly you gain altitude, and for thrust, it helped the T-45. F-16, F-22, Yak 130 and the F-15 on climb out, as for speed, F-16, Yak 130 really improved top end speed, the rest did to but not much better than the stock units, as for flight times, I found that the inrunner was an improvement, if not better than the stock units, not by much but a little longer flight times because you can cruise and still go fast with the 12 blade, and the sound is great, yes it worked great in the F-18 as well.

Oh and did I mention how smooooooth the 1835kv is, I just couldn't take the 9 blade whine, that's really is the main reason I changed all mine to be honest, but it is a better performer all around as well.

Thanks DCORSAIR, sounds like it would be just what the doctor ordered for me. I also hate the whine of the 9 blade EDF units in my Avanti, 2 F-4's and the F-18. The 12 blades in my Stinger 90, F-16 and SU-30 sound soooooo much better. As for the F-18, I'm not really looking for higher end speed or even that much more in flight time (over 5 minutes that it get's now is great) but the thrust on take-off and climb out is really the main thing I'm looking for since I fly off of grass. Really appreciate your advice. Thanks again.

[DCORSAIR]

Thanks DCORSAIR, sounds like it would be just what the doctor ordered for me. I also hate the whine of the 9 blade EDF units in my Avanti, 2 F-4's and the F-18. The 12 blades in my Stinger 90, F-16 and SU-30 sound soooooo much better. As for the F-18, I'm not really looking for higher end speed or even that much more in flight time (over 5 minutes that it get's now is great) but the thrust on take-off and climb out is really the main thing I'm looking for since I fly off of grass. Really appreciate your advice. Thanks again.

Oh I see, I dont think you will even get close to 5 minutes, more like 3, of course my left hand does not back off much at all...........

[Hugh Wiedman]

Oh I see, I dont think you will even get close to 5 minutes, more like 3, of course my left hand does not back off much at all...........

I'm getting 5 minutes now on the stock outrunner with a RT 6250, so I'd guess I'd get something close. Started out with the timer at 3:40 for the first 4 flights and came in with 47%-52% battery left. Flew it relatively aggressively as you can see in the video I posted. Didn't make sense to me, but I'm not arguing!

[Hugh Wiedman]

DCORSAIR I'm still surprised and somewhat confounded on why the first 4 flights of the F-18 came in with 50% battery left on flights of just under 4 minutes. This F-18 Canadian livery is so much heavier than the stock, I thought I would be lucky to get 3 1/2 minutes even. It weighs almost as much as my F-16 that has the upgraded inrunner, and on that jet, I only get about 3:30 with the 6250 mah and come down with 20%-25% battery. Same with my SU-30 with it's inrunners and both F-4's with the same outrunner as the stock F-18, I get 3:40 with 20-20% battery left. And it was Brinka that helped me out with the maiden and he definitely pushed it with several Cuban 8's, some split S's, several high speed passes (at least for this semi-truck of a jet) and some high rolling loops. I still didn't believe my battery checker, but something funky is going on. I do have the twin afterburners (like all my jets) on a separate 500 mah battery, so that's not adding to the main battery drain. Maybe this one is like a fully loaded oil tanker, once it get's going, the momentum carries it through most of the flight! Obviously I need a lot more flights on it to be convinced, cause I'm not about to change the timer yet.

[Elbee]

Hugh Wiedman, brings to mind an old cliche` about a 'gift horse'. I, too, fly RT 6250s, so I am hopeful for a similar equine endowment. Best, LB

[Dustman]

LB now that I have the cockpit done I'm working on the gear doors as you can see in the first pic. The second two pictures of the left and right support need to come out. How do you do that without cutting the foam and support then removing the foam from the piece then gluing the foam back on the jet? Also, the last pic show parts you made that I need to complete my mod. The wheel well doors I've made. Where does the piece for the ball link come from? I don't see anything in the scrap I have leftover from the material I can use to put the ball links on to attach the wheel well doors to the Futaba 3008M servos I just got in the mail. The pieces for the bulkheads, strut area and door and the brace door I need and would like to have them if they are available in a 3D file to be printed.. If you can provide that stuff for me I can move on to the other neat files shown as mods to the bottom front of the aircraft..

[Elbee]

Dustman, Looks good so far and also it looks like you're about to begin the plastic/foam surgery; not for the faint of heart. Did you purchase the Freewing Nose Gear Plastic Parts Set from MotionRC? https://www.motionrc.com/products/fr...rs-blue-angels Those parts can be used to mod all the other Gear Door Parts. The painted 3DP parts in the picture are 'eye candy' with the exception of maybe the bulkhead which adds some rigidity to the fuse sidewalls once things are reglued into place. The ball link connects to a shortened plastic Control Horn glued to the NG Doors. I am currently at 12K feet enjoying some R&R with the Fam-Damily. Back home first part of the next week. I will check back with you and your progress then. I want to help if I am able. I'm at that filling, sanding, and priming stage and have not rebuilt that section entirely. Best, LB

[thisguy65]

New battery tray coming to reinforce nose gear.
**this is prototype***

[Carlbrainiac]

what power upgrades have people done? I recently upgraded my Avanti to the new in runner and can now set my timer to 4 mins instead of 3 mins and I get a lot more power. I want to achieve the same goal with my base grey F18 as it is still on the original out runner which is sluggish and only just gets me 3 mins. Often landing with my 6000 50c Admiral at 3.6 per cell. Not ideal. I know motion now list the in runner as an upgrade but its out of stock. I have subscribed to notify me by email when its back in stock but with current covid situation goodness only knows how long that could be so I'm considering other options. Obviously don't want to spend the earth but understand a bargain wont achieve what I want so guess i can budget £150 ish. Maybe a little more but don't want to go over £200. Talking English pounds here by the way.
thoughts...

[xviper]

what power upgrades have people done? I recently upgraded my Avanti to the new in runner and can now set my timer to 4 mins instead of 3 mins and I get a lot more power. I want to achieve the same goal with my base grey F18 as it is still on the original out runner which is sluggish and only just gets me 3 mins. Often landing with my 6000 50c Admiral at 3.6 per cell. Not ideal. I know motion now list the in runner as an upgrade but its out of stock. I have subscribed to notify me by email when its back in stock but with current covid situation goodness only knows how long that could be so I'm considering other options. Obviously don't want to spend the earth but understand a bargain wont achieve what I want so guess i can budget £150 ish. Maybe a little more but don't want to go over £200. Talking English pounds here by the way.
thoughts...

The new 1900kv, 9-blade is a bargain. My first Freewing F-18 (V2 with vector thrust) was upgraded with the inrunner from the Freewing 90mm Yak-130. However, by today's standards, the newer inrunners put out quite a bit more thrust. There is also another "upgrade" inrunner that is available for the new F-18 but it's quite a bit more expensive, even though it puts out about the same thrust as the one you are waiting to come in stock. It's slightly less kv but has 12-blades, so should real good. If you're in a rush and can't wait, this would be an option and it's still below your price cap.
https://www.rc-castle.com/index.php?...roduct_id=7739
Check to see if Motion has it in stock. RC Castle does have it in stock but their shipping time at the moment may be limiting, depending on what method they are allowed to use for this type of package. They are just starting to send stuff by Hong Kong Post again. Before, it could take over 2 months. You'll have to check if you really want it.

[Carlbrainiac]

The new 1900kv, 9-blade is a bargain. My first Freewing F-18 (V2 with vector thrust) was upgraded with the inrunner from the Freewing 90mm Yak-130. However, by today's standards, the newer inrunners put out quite a bit more thrust. There is also another "upgrade" inrunner that is available for the new F-18 but it's quite a bit more expensive, even though it puts out about the same thrust as the one you are waiting to come in stock. It's slightly less kv but has 12-blades, so should real good. If you're in a rush and can't wait, this would be an option and it's still below your price cap.
https://www.rc-castle.com/index.php?...roduct_id=7739
Check to see if Motion has it in stock. RC Castle does have it in stock but their shipping time at the moment may be limiting, depending on what method they are allowed to use for this type of package. They are just starting to send stuff by Hong Kong Post again. Before, it could take over 2 months. You'll have to check if you really want it.

Oo wow that one does look tempting. Especially being 12 blade as apposed to 9 blade. Should have e everything. Sound better. More thrust and hopefully more duration. I think I might just take a punt on that one. Thank you. Was considering a jp system but that would mean hacking away at the foam and adjusting the timing of the esc which would be a pain in the arse as I dont have a programming card. I just want a drop in and go upgrade. And that link you posted seems to fit the bill. My only concern is being that I'm in the UK will I get hit with import duty and customs...

[Hugh Wiedman]

Agree with xviper , very sound advice. Carlbrainiac, surprised you're only getting 3 mins on the Admiral 6000 50C. I have the base grey F-18 as well that I redid in the Canadian demo scheme with the stock 9 blade outrunner (same as the stock F-4) and I'm getting 4:30-5:00 minutes with the Roaring Top 6250 35 C. I've also flown it with the Admiral 6000 (which is only 28g heavier than the RT) and gotten just slightly less, but not 3:00. My F-18, with all the extra paint/graphics/3D cockpit and twin afterburners weighs 1.2 pounds heavier than the stock base grey, so you should definitely get more time. Do you like to fly with full throttle mostly? I'm still doing high speed passes, Cuban 8's, Split S, high rolls, and some tight high G turns and for some reason, getting more time than you are, not sure why.

Regarding upgrading the fans, I'm considering doing the same, but maybe for a different reason. I hate the whine of a 9 blade. I may eventually upgrade to the fan xviper mentioned, the 12 blade 4068-1835 Kv inrunner which costs $158. I upgraded my F-16 to that exact fan and it performs great, and the sound is sooo much better, more of a whoosh, and similar to a turbine, although not as loud. The other option he mentioned is the upgraded 9 blade 3672-1900 Kv inrunner that now comes standard in the Blue Angel F-18, but separately costs $90. I asked Alpha when that fan would be available back in February when I bought the base grey and they just introduced it to the BA version and he was good enough to let me know that it really wouldn't be available separately at Motion until mid summer, so I think it will be available soon if you don't want to get it at RC Castle.

Just keep in mind that the inrunners mentioned above really get optimum performance out of a higher C battery (which is also heavier). The Admiral 6000 50C has a true C (according to my IR meter and bench testing it on fans with a power meter) which is much lower than 50C (like most batteries). The RT 35C battery I use actually tests just slightly above the Admiral 50C, and in my F-16 and SU-30 that both have inrunners, using a RT 70C (or any other high C battery) results in the fan producing about 7-10% more thrust. That's not the same with all the outrunners I tested, where there is virtually no difference in power output between a 35C/50C or 70C. Since I'm getting great flight times with the battery I'm using, I may not even upgrade to the inrunner (although I still have it on my "ready to buy" wish list) because I can't really afford to add any more weight (in a higher C battery in the front) to my F-18 (primarily for the CG as I have the battery all the way aft with almost 2 ounces of lead in the tail just to get close to 92mm CG). Others in this thread (DcCorsair for one, I believe and maybe Phantom) have upgraded to that 12 blade inrunner and get outstanding performance along with great sound, so I would suggest that if you're bank account can handle it, go with the 12 blade inrunner instead of the 9 blade inrunner. Yes, I know, vanity can be expensive for the sake of a better sound, but that's just me.

[Carlbrainiac]

Agree with xviper , very sound advice. Carlbrainiac, surprised you're only getting 3 mins on the Admiral 6000 50C. I have the base grey F-18 as well that I redid in the Canadian demo scheme with the stock 9 blade outrunner (same as the stock F-4) and I'm getting 4:30-5:00 minutes with the Roaring Top 6250 35 C. I've also flown it with the Admiral 6000 (which is only 28g heavier than the RT) and gotten just slightly less, but not 3:00. My F-18, with all the extra paint/graphics/3D cockpit and twin afterburners weighs 1.2 pounds heavier than the stock base grey, so you should definitely get more time. Do you like to fly with full throttle mostly? I'm still doing high speed passes, Cuban 8's, Split S, high rolls, and some tight high G turns and for some reason, getting more time than you are, not sure why.

Regarding upgrading the fans, I'm considering doing the same, but maybe for a different reason. I hate the whine of a 9 blade. I may eventually upgrade to the fan xviper mentioned, the 12 blade 4068-1835 Kv inrunner which costs $158. I upgraded my F-16 to that exact fan and it performs great, and the sound is sooo much better, more of a whoosh, and similar to a turbine, although not as loud. The other option he mentioned is the upgraded 9 blade 3672-1900 Kv inrunner that now comes standard in the Blue Angel F-18, but separately costs $90. I asked Alpha when that fan would be available back in February when I bought the base grey and they just introduced it to the BA version and he was good enough to let me know that it really wouldn't be available separately at Motion until mid summer, so I think it will be available soon if you don't want to get it at RC Castle.

Just keep in mind that the inrunners mentioned above really get optimum performance out of a higher C battery (which is also heavier). The Admiral 6000 50C has a true C (according to my IR meter and bench testing it on fans with a power meter) which is much lower than 50C (like most batteries). The RT 35C battery I use actually tests just slightly above the Admiral 50C, and in my F-16 and SU-30 that both have inrunners, using a RT 70C (or any other high C battery) results in the fan producing about 7-10% more thrust. That's not the same with all the outrunners I tested, where there is virtually no difference in power output between a 35C/50C or 70C. Since I'm getting great flight times with the battery I'm using, I may not even upgrade to the inrunner (although I still have it on my "ready to buy" wish list) because I can't really afford to add any more weight (in a higher C battery in the front) to my F-18 (primarily for the CG as I have the battery all the way aft with almost 2 ounces of lead in the tail just to get close to 92mm CG). Others in this thread (DcCorsair for one, I believe and maybe Phantom) have upgraded to that 12 blade inrunner and get outstanding performance along with great sound, so I would suggest that if you're bank account can handle it, go with the 12 blade inrunner instead of the 9 blade inrunner. Yes, I know, vanity can be expensive for the sake of a better sound, but that's just me.

I am running F16 ordinance too so that will be causing a lot of drag. Don't fly full throttle all the time. I am flying from grass though and takes a long old run before lift off. Genuinely don't know how you are achieving those kind of flight times. I'm lucky if I see those times on my new in runner upgraded Avanti. Maybe I am a little more throttle happy than most but then why buy a jet to go slow right..? Lol

[Carlbrainiac]

taken a chance and placed the order for that one from rc Castle. Now let's see how long it takes to arrive and how much I get hit more on import and customs

[Elbee]

Hugh Wiedman

Thank you, Hugh, for all the great info on your Canook F-18C. I've been thinking about doing 'the' performance upgrade for the same reasons as you stated. Best, LB

ps: Happy Dad's Day!