Freewing S-3 Viking

[coot83]

Hey motion,

Since Freewing has made quite an array of aircraft I was curious if there might be any interest in making an S-3?  I know the S-3 isnt a fighter per say, but I bet it would fill some interest with many hobbiests.  It could also fill the final spot out of the airwing as they already have all the other jets from that era for the Navy.  As far as the tooling, I feel they have a good amount to choose from with the nose gear from the A-6 and the rear mains from the F-16.  The plane could probably fly similar to how the ME-262 flies as well.  Anyway I know its a long shot, but it would be cool to see as I think I have come across one rendition of the S-3 in the 8 years I have been in the hobby.

Chris

[OV10]

RE: Freewing S-3 Viking

Hello coot,
When I saw this thread name pop up around the same time as the recent announcements by Alpha on the FlightLineRC 1600 P-38, well my heart jumped into my throat. I have been waiting years for Rich Uravitch to finally release his 70mm EDF version thru Hobby Hangar but to no avail. Wouldn't a 60" span Freewing Viking be awesome. The rendition you came across is let me guess........ Keiro?

[The Huff]

RE: Freewing S-3 Viking

I'd buy one for sure ! The twin 80mm power setup that they use
in the F-14 would be perfect ....  :D

[coot83]

RE: Freewing S-3 Viking

Not sure what rendition of S-3 it was, but I remember in the rare event you saw one on the rcgroups classifieds it didn't stick around long. I get the feeling the chassis of an S-3 would be a nice stable bird. Doesn't help either that my co-pilots pops is the senior most S-3 pilot either. I know he would flip if they ever made an RC variant.

Coot

[Alpha]

RE: Freewing S-3 Viking

The S-3 Viking and E2C Hawkeye are two planes on my list of "Obscure but Awesome" to model one day. I'd agree many of us would like to see those models in foam electric one day, done well. Sales potential is the first consideration as a business, so hopefully there is enough support for some of the aircraft on that list to gradually make it to production. Time, gentlemen, time will tell!

[coot83]

RE: Freewing S-3 Viking

I agree with you completely there alpha. A general question I got, especially for the more obscure aircraft is what is the due process for figuring out the interest? I would be curious as to what sort of medium companies would consider in order to prove there is beyond a niche market for an aircraft such as the S-3?

[Alpha]

RE: Freewing S-3 Viking

The vetting process varies from manufacturer to manufacturer, from reading through forums, polls, compiling call requests, and other market analyses, although regardless of the collection method a safe round target number is 1,000, for starters. Ideally you want a model to take hold in the marketplace and last for years with thousands, millions, billions of units sold! Time and again, manufacturers will take risks and invest the tens of thousands of dollars up front to develop a new model, but ultimately it is that model's sales which heavily influences whether that manufacturer will take risks again the next time. Manufacturers can't afford to absorb too many duds, so they need to produce what people will purchase. Not what people *like*, mind you, but what they will actually *purchase*. There are many manufacturers which tried out of the gate to produce an obscure model but it failed to take hold. Having one or two rare, low volume aircraft among a selection of 40-60 planes isn't a killer, but if your very first, second, and third models are consecutive duds, that manufacturer probably won't be around for much longer.

All of this is to say that all the manufacturers we work with strive to predict market acceptance of new products and find the balance between something which has never been seen before and something which is a more sure bet. FlightLineRC's recent announcement of its Lavochkin La-7 is a good example of taking a calculated risk. Here is a never before modeled aircraft that, if successful, will likely encourage FlightLine to push the boundaries further with more obscure product releases. It makes sense: If we as the buying public support more obscure product releases, then manufacturers will be encouraged to branch out to more risky subject matter. Conversely, if all the market ever buys is the same five types of aircraft but rarely backs an obscure release, then it wouldn't be a surprise if manufacturers stopped investing in obscure subject matter and instead stayed with what was "safe".

There are so many models I'd like to see, as an avid model enthusiast myself, although I recognize that the likelihood of finding several hundreds of other like-minded buyers isn't a sure thing, so I don't get my hopes up. A Beechcraft Starship, Bugatti 100P, FB-111 Aardvark, E-2 Hawkeye, P-3 Orion, Panavia Tornado ADV, Fairey Swordfish, RA-5C Vigilante, Bristol Beaufighter, Horten 229, just to begin. I remind myself that if those models never see a mass production line, I could always revert to doing a good old fashioned Scratchbuild.

[coot83]

RE: Freewing S-3 Viking

Thanks alpha for the info. I guess with the creation of the A-6, was there a certain method that helped bring this airplane to life? I know the A-6 has always had a somewhat strong following, but was curious where Freewing got their confidence numbers from? A lot of your story reminds of when eflite made the Hawker Hurricane. I love that plane and was sad to find that it didn't sell that well, granted I thought the price might have been a little bit of a factor. Anyway, I think mainly because of that plane they are only making the "safe" models as you describe now. I don't mean to get off topic, but I have noticed that Parkzone's fleet has gotten considerably low in terms of their range of aircraft. Are they on the verge of doing something different with their business? I wonder how an E2 would fly considering its fuselage is interesting unconventional with the dome up top.

Coot

[Alpha]

RE: Freewing S-3 Viking

The A-6 has been an often requested model, and there weren't many models in the past, a barbaric Skyangel 50mm foamy, Kyosho 55mm foamy, and the elegant K&A glass/builtup kit. That model was still a risk, which is partly why Freewing released it in conjunction with the F-86 Sabre, a comparative "safe bet". One of Motion RC's owners flew the A-6 Intruder, so that helped!

I can't speak for Parkzone's strategy, but as far as the E2's flight characteristics are concerned, the radome would cause an unavoidable lump of drag. The full scale's radome does have an airfoil, so that will help lift on an RC model, but it's still additional wetted area nonetheless. In RC, I'm certain the right motor/prop setup should pull the aircraft along convincingly. I've flown far draggier aircraft.

[coot83]

RE: Freewing S-3 Viking

I remember for a while I was looking to get that 55mm Kyosho for a long time as it atleast looked decent, heard it flew like a brick though.  I think I even had a conversation with the owner about the A-6 back when you guys first started up and he revealed that he used to be an A-6 driver himself.  That is cool that his influence might of been apart of the creation of freewing's variant. 

Im sure you are right alpha with the right power setup it should be manageable.  I get the feeling if the E2 were to ever be made, it might do well as a bigger scale size than a smaller one.  Back on track with the S-3, have you seen many requests for it or is it still a pretty taboo aircraft right now?

Coot

[Alpha]

RE: Freewing S-3 Viking

Checking our records we've requested two requests for an S-3 Viking, all time. I've seen whispers and murmurs of a twin 64mm in development from various mfrs, but nothing concrete. Unfortunately I won't say it's likely in the near future from any of the major sources.

[OV10]

RE: Freewing S-3 Viking

Hello Alpha and my apologies to Coot for this little de-railer on your thread but just couldn't help myself when you guys started talking about one of the owners having been an Intruder jockey. Hey Alpha, you really have my curiosity up as to who it is so please pass this on to Mark or Tom. It was a post of mine from June last year showing my Freewing  A-6 with the livery of my squadron VA-35 when I served with them in the early seventies. Post#16 to be specific.
http://www.hobbysquawk.com/Thread-Warbirds-Squadron?page=2
PS....... I'd like to know with what squadron and when he served.
Best regards,    

[coot83]

RE: Freewing S-3 Viking

Thanks for the info Alpha, I was somewhat expecting those results. Maybe down the road when other planes have been out and they need more jets to pull from maybe they will make an S-3. I agree with OV, it would be cool to hear more about the history of who piloted the A-6 and what squadron they were from.

Coot

[Bodie]

I'll make an official request for an S-3 to bring the total to 3. I'll buy at least 2 to make it 4. I'm a former Hoover NFO and have been trying to find one for awhile. I think the VS-35 'NAVY 1' scheme might get some takers.

[TSHobbies]

honestly an S3 is something Ive never thought about for an RC plane dont knowwhy..but now that you mention it..that would really be an impressive plane to fly.. Id certainly be in for one...heck..while were at it, an S2 would be cool too. I doubt it will happen though..it certainly is an obscure plane. I agree on the E3 though, I could see a balancing issue there for sure..most foamies tend to be tail heavy already..youd have to add a ton of weight in that nose.

[Mightywarhoover]

I'd buy 5 of them!!! It needs to be an S-3B though. I was the sensor operator in the Viking for 5 years flying off the Saratoga and Enterprise in VS-30 from 90-95. I'd be in Heaven if one were to be produced for sale. We called it the Mighty War Hoover because of the sound the GE TF34 turbofans made...like a Hoover vacuum... same engines as the A-10's use.

[wvrailfan]

FNRC had some photos of what appears to be a 1600 mm composite S-3, but I can't tell who is making it or who might be selling it outside of Taiwan.

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1344526152267900&set=pcb.797541357078129&type=3&theater

[fredmdbud]

I read that this plane was one of the last by CMP before they shut down: https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/show...iking-by-CMPro

[BRGT350]

I will put another vote in for the S-3. I was just watching clips of Final Countdown the other night thinking about how a RC S-3 would be awesome.

[fredmdbud]

I think a S-3 Viking would gain quite a following considering:

• An EDF version would really move - the nacelles have unobstructed intakes and exhausts for better efficiency
• High lift coefficient from the wide and low-sweep wings could make for stable, low-throttle power landings
• The plane would have great presence hoovering around in the sky :)