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Official Roban 120mm A-10 Warthog V2 EDF Jet Thread

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  • #81
    Hi Jink-
    Original scale wheels are 94mm and 6.1oz each with axle. The new ones with brakes are from Xicoy and they are 90mm and 8.2 oz each with axle. So I lose 4mm (not awful from a scale perspective) and gain 4.2 oz overall. I also lose about 4mm in width. Gaining the ability to stop before the plane rolls to Arizona: Priceless. Not having to hog out any of the sponson to fit the new wheels: Heaven. I can live with someone telling me my wheels look a little small.

    Here is a link to the wheels: https://www.xicoy.com/catalog/produc...so0rfharqjqmq0

    I had new axles machined to fit my struts. The stock axles from Xicoy were too short. I did notice that Xicoy makes a 100mm wheel with brake as well. That might be a better look for your Roban since it is a slightly bigger scale than the CGRC.

    FWIW, my CG calculations were done with scales and gear extended. I am too dumb for a Vanessa rig. Point being, I may need to adjust for the extra 4 oz. in front of the CG in flight. Better than behind it for sure, but still an adjustment.

    Cheers,
    Dan

    Comment


    • #82
      Originally posted by gravity tester View Post
      Hi Jink-
      Original scale wheels are 94mm and 6.1oz each with axle. The new ones with brakes are from Xicoy and they are 90mm and 8.2 oz each with axle. So I lose 4mm (not awful from a scale perspective) and gain 4.2 oz overall. I also lose about 4mm in width. Gaining the ability to stop before the plane rolls to Arizona: Priceless. Not having to hog out any of the sponson to fit the new wheels: Heaven. I can live with someone telling me my wheels look a little small.

      Here is a link to the wheels: https://www.xicoy.com/catalog/produc... away with mq0

      I had new axles machined to fit my struts. The stock axles from Xicoy were too short. I did notice that Xicoy makes a 100mm wheel with brake as well. That might be a better look for your Roban since it is a slightly bigger scale than the CGRC.

      FWIW, my CG calculations were done with scales and gear extended. I am too dumb for a Vanessa rig. Point being, I may need to adjust for the extra 4 oz. in front of the CG in flight. Better than behind it for sure, but still an adjustment.

      Cheers,
      Dan

      ok, so brakes have come a long, long way since ive actually looked at a set for past prproject project, that has to be close to four yrs now. They used to add lbs not 4 or 5 oz. I do hate losing my scale wheels. And the roban has a little rotation issue on take off. Could probably still use the shorter mains. It would give it a slightly more positive angle of attack and every little has to helps with that. I may just have to call Mitch. Get him to make me a set. I could even get away with using a longer nose wheel strut and that would make a big difference with the shorter mains as well. Thanks landing gear is just so far behind the CG. A little more positive angle of attack on take off definitely won't make it any worse that's for sure.

      And I must be really dum because I don't even know what Vanessa Rig is. But now I have to know, and thanks for that link

      Comment


      • #83
        Originally posted by jinkrat4791 View Post
        And I must be really dum because I don't even know what Vanessa Rig is. But now I have to know, and thanks for that link
        Inquiring minds and all...Here is one of many explanations that are out there: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-qcZahbxbI

        Cheers,
        Dan

        PS. I should add that I was a miserable Boy Scout. The notion of me trusting a $3000+ airplane to a knot I tied in the ceiling is more nerve trashing than the maiden.

        Comment


        • #84
          Originally posted by jinkrat4791 View Post
          Ok, so I have a question, I've always heard that using digital and and analog servos in the same aircraft will cause problems. I I've never been clear on exactly what kind of problems but I've just avoided it. In this A 10 I went analog for all control surfaces but I have two micro digital servos one controlling the nose gear door and steering. Neither are connected to the receiver. Both are connected directly to the retract controller. They are even running off a separate life battery that only runs the retract controller and the lighting systems. I don't see how they could cause me any problems but i may be wrong. I'd rather ask a question than risk a problem so any opinions are appreciated
          I've used them in the same manner in my P-38 for a couple of years and had no issues. I'm running Spektrum electronics. I think you're good.
          Bob

          Comment


          • #85
            Originally posted by buffetbob View Post

            I've used them in the same manner in my P-38 for a couple of years and had no issues. I'm running Spektrum electronics. I think you're good.
            Bob

            thanks Bob, I'm running spektrum as well, I thought it would be ok but I wanted to hear that from someone with actual experience with that type of set up. With this much money in an airplane I don't plan on assuming anything. Thanks again

            Comment


            • #86
              Originally posted by gravity tester View Post

              Inquiring minds and all...Here is one of many explanations that are out there: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-qcZahbxbI

              Cheers,
              Dan

              PS. I should add that I was a miserable Boy Scout. The notion of me trusting a $3000+ airplane to a knot I tied in the ceiling is more nerve trashing than the maiden.
              That whole set up looks to be more trouble than it's worth, I built basically a large version of a balancing stand similar to like the old Great Planes balancer. I changed a few things making it more suitable for a giant scale aircraft and it worked great. you could set the airplane right side up or upside down. With a model like Hog you would set it right side up. Then you can see how the CG changes as you cycle the gear. I gave it away because I haven't built a big model like this in quite a few years. I'll be making another one for use on this project and future projects as I've seen to have been bitten by the large jet bug. I haven't seen the guy in quite a while but I'll see if I can get him to send me a pic of it and I'll post it for you

              Comment


              • #87
                I have a question, this is the first model I've ever used life batteries for powering my receiver and retracts. I've searched for information on charging and I've read a lot of contradicting information. They are 2s 2200 mah spektrum life batteries. What current should I set my charger on to charge. Ive read different posts saying .5 and others up to 1.5. I want them to last and stay healthy as long as possible. And do they need to be fully discharged before charging again. Basically I know nothing about them at all so any info will help. Thanks

                Comment


                • #88
                  Originally posted by jinkrat4791 View Post
                  I have a question, this is the first model I've ever used life batteries for powering my receiver and retracts. I've searched for information on charging and I've read a lot of contradicting information. They are 2s 2200 mah spektrum life batteries. What current should I set my charger on to charge. Ive read different posts saying .5 and others up to 1.5. I want them to last and stay healthy as long as possible. And do they need to be fully discharged before charging again. Basically I know nothing about them at all so any info will help. Thanks
                  jinkrat4791
                  Hello Jink………...What is the contradictory info that you are reviewing regarding the LiFe (short for LiFePO4 or Lithium-iron phosphate) battery?
                  The Lithium battery products have been established on the market long enough now that the info on them is fundamentally established and consistent.
                  All Lithium batteries safe charge characteristics are nominally @ 1C which in the case of your 2200mAh example would be 2.2Ah.
                  All Lithium products are not meant to be "fully discharged" ( 0 volts). In the case of the LiFe, it's nominal operating voltage is 3.2Vdc with the minimum safe lowest discharge voltage is 2.8Vdc.
                  The maximum charge voltage is 3.6V. Those above voltages are already part of the programmed LiFe parameters in any modern charger.
                  Set your charge amperage for 1C ( 1 x the A/hr rating) and you'll be good to go. This applies for any Lithium product for a safe reliable charge.
                  Best regards,
                  Warbird Charlie
                  HSD Skyraider FlightLine OV-10 FMS 1400: P-40B, P-51, F4U, F6F, T-28, P-40E, Pitts, 1700 F4U & F7F, FOX glider Freewing A-6, T-33, P-51 Dynam ME-262, Waco TF Giant P-47; ESM F7F-3 LX PBJ-1 EFL CZ T-28, C-150, 1500 P-51 & FW-190

                  Comment


                  • #89
                    Originally posted by OV10 View Post

                    jinkrat4791
                    Hello Jink………...What is the contradictory info that you are reviewing regarding the LiFe (short for LiFePO4 or Lithium-iron phosphate) battery?
                    The Lithium battery products have been established on the market long enough now that the info on them is fundamentally established and consistent.
                    All Lithium batteries safe charge characteristics are nominally @ 1C which in the case of your 2200mAh example would be 2.2Ah.
                    All Lithium products are not meant to be "fully discharged" ( 0 volts). In the case of the LiFe, it's nominal operating voltage is 3.2Vdc with the minimum safe lowest discharge voltage is 2.8Vdc.
                    The maximum charge voltage is 3.6V. Those above voltages are already part of the programmed LiFe parameters in any modern charger.
                    Set your charge amperage for 1C ( 1 x the A/hr rating) and you'll be good to go. This applies for any Lithium product for a safe reliable charge.
                    Best regards,
                    I'm fairly new to electric flying, I'm just getting to the point where I feel like I fully understand lipo flight packs. Does a life pack have to be stored at a certain voltage like a flight pack. I just don't know what to do to do to maintain them
                    ​​​​​​

                    Comment


                    • #90
                      Originally posted by jinkrat4791 View Post

                      I'm fairly new to electric flying, I'm just getting to the point where I feel like I fully understand lipo flight packs. Does a life pack have to be stored at a certain voltage like a flight pack. I just don't know what to do to do to maintain them
                      ​​​​​​
                      The underlined question would be yes if you are concerned (as you expressed earlier) with getting long term usage.
                      Again, being that it is of the Lithium platform of batteries any smart charger will take care of your maintenance needs for the LiFe
                      Warbird Charlie
                      HSD Skyraider FlightLine OV-10 FMS 1400: P-40B, P-51, F4U, F6F, T-28, P-40E, Pitts, 1700 F4U & F7F, FOX glider Freewing A-6, T-33, P-51 Dynam ME-262, Waco TF Giant P-47; ESM F7F-3 LX PBJ-1 EFL CZ T-28, C-150, 1500 P-51 & FW-190

                      Comment


                      • #91
                        Originally posted by OV10 View Post

                        The underlined question would be yes if you are concerned (as you expressed earlier) with getting long term usage.
                        Again, being that it is of the Lithium platform of batteries any smart charger will take care of your maintenance needs for the LiFe
                        My charger does for the most part. The question that I'm asking is does it need to be stored a certain voltage and if so what is that voltage. Thanks

                        Comment


                        • #92
                          Originally posted by jinkrat4791 View Post

                          My charger does for the most part. The question that I'm asking is does it need to be stored a certain voltage and if so what is that voltage. Thanks
                          Ohhhhh.............In your prior 2 posts you did not ask about specific storage voltage until now because I'm guessing that you don't trust your charger.
                          So here is a list of the different Lithium products with their voltages for Max charge/discharge, nominal and storage levels.

                          ..................…..LiPo……LiFe……LiLo…..LiHV

                          Nominal……...3.7...…..3.3...…...3.6...…..3.8
                          Max...………...4.2...…..3.6...…...4.1...…..4.35
                          Discharge...….3.0...…..2.0...…...2.5...…..3.0
                          Storage...…….3.85...…3.3...…...3.75...…3.9

                          Any good quality charger usually has a chart similar to this in the manual.
                          Warbird Charlie
                          HSD Skyraider FlightLine OV-10 FMS 1400: P-40B, P-51, F4U, F6F, T-28, P-40E, Pitts, 1700 F4U & F7F, FOX glider Freewing A-6, T-33, P-51 Dynam ME-262, Waco TF Giant P-47; ESM F7F-3 LX PBJ-1 EFL CZ T-28, C-150, 1500 P-51 & FW-190

                          Comment


                          • #93
                            Originally posted by OV10 View Post

                            Ohhhhh.............In your prior 2 posts you did not ask about specific storage voltage until now because I'm guessing that you don't trust your charger.
                            So here is a list of the different Lithium products with their voltages for Max charge/discharge, nominal and storage levels.

                            ..................…..LiPo……LiFe……LiLo…..LiHV

                            Nominal……...3.7...…..3.3...…...3.6...…..3.8
                            Max...………...4.2...…..3.6...…...4.1...…..4.35
                            Discharge...….3.0...…..2.0...…...2.5...…..3.0
                            Storage...…….3.85...…3.3...…...3.75...…3.9

                            Any good quality charger usually has a chart similar to this in the manual.
                            Thank you, that's what I needed to know. My charger is the Hitec RCD that only charges two batteries at once. It was only $99 but has worked well for me so far. But the info you just gave me is not in the manual. I can't see where the manual that came with it is of any use to a noob. It just confused me more than anything. On top of that I don't have any flying buddies that I've been able ask questions because we lost our field almost a year ago and our club has pretty much disbanded. At that time there wasn't but one person flying electric and to be honest he was the official club prick, I wouldn't call him if my life depended on it. But thank you for the info. That was what I was looking for. And I think my charger is relatively basic, it will not recognize what type of battery you hook up it will only tell you if you have the charger set wrong. You have to manually input the type battery, charge current, and number of cells.

                            Comment


                            • #94
                              jinkrat4791 I believe most if not all chargers have to be told what type of battery your hooking up.
                              Once told then the more expensive ones will know cell count and so on.
                              Just keep asking questions here at the Squawk, one of the best forums to learn on and I have yet to see where someone didn't have an answer for the inquiring mind.
                              Since you are venturing forward with this beast A-10 I would strongly recommend that you invest in a stronger 6S charger that has a minimum of 200W per port
                              Warbird Charlie
                              HSD Skyraider FlightLine OV-10 FMS 1400: P-40B, P-51, F4U, F6F, T-28, P-40E, Pitts, 1700 F4U & F7F, FOX glider Freewing A-6, T-33, P-51 Dynam ME-262, Waco TF Giant P-47; ESM F7F-3 LX PBJ-1 EFL CZ T-28, C-150, 1500 P-51 & FW-190

                              Comment


                              • #95
                                Seeing that this model is going to take 6 batteries to make her go, (4 lipos and 2 life) I was planning on buying another charger like I have, or possibly buying a nicer charger all together that will charge at least 4 batteries at once. I'm leaning towards just getting same because it will probably save me a couple hundred dollars. But if I decide to get a nicer charger I'd like to have some opinions from some of you guys with more experience as to which one I should be looking at. I know my charger I have now will charge up to 6s and I believe it's 200 watts per port. Thanks again

                                Comment


                                • #96
                                  I would have been lost completely when i picked up electric flight had it not been for rc groups. And I just recently joined Squawk when I found the thread on the A-10 I happened to be building. Before that I've read a thread here and there when it was something that interested me but never joined and actually posted anything until I bought my first electric airplane. Had this been a big twin gas powered bomber with air retracts I would have been in completely familiar territory. Truthfully, If I hadn't been obsessed with the idea of building big A-10 for the last 20 years, I would have waited a while until I had more experience with electric power systems. A turbine model is out of my budget range and even more intimidating than taking on a big edf version. The thing is, I enjoy projects like this, I don't get very much pleasure out of pulling an ARF out of the box on Monday and having it ready to fly by the weekend. Those are just my models that give me something to fly while I work on something like this. Usually one of my big projects like this ends up getting sold. One I sold about 15 minutes after the maiden flight. Others after 30 to 50 or so flights. I save every invoice for every single thing I buy for these projects in a file, even if it's a couple bucks for a handful of button head screws or something like that. I've actually made money on every one I've sold because I've never tried to sell one, I end up getting approached by someone interested. I give em a price and show my documented investment and I add in what I want for my time invested. Either they are willing to pay or I wait for the next person to come along. Thats the only way I can fund projects like this repeatedly. This one is comming out of pocket completely because I took about a 5 year break in building large models due to a nasty break up between my ex an I. We we not mairried but our finances we're thououghly entangled after living together for 15 plus years. Had to sell the house and of course my workshop along with it. This is the first giant scale airplane I've ever built on a dining room table and that has been a challenge all in its self. With getting into electric I thought I would get into 3D flying, and I have gotten fairly decent in the past year but my passion in this hobby is scale military aircraft. Before the A-10 it's been ww2 fighters and bombers. This is my first modern warbird. And I think this is going to be my nitch for a while. I'm already trying to find a good set of plans for a balsa built F-15 in a PDF file format so I can resize them. Haven't had much luck with that so far. Anyhow, these forums have been a great help and I've enjoyed connecting with modelers all over the world. I wish I would have gotten involved with them sooner.

                                  Comment


                                  • #97
                                    Hi Jink-
                                    I am so far from an expert I can't even see the "E" but I offer this for what it is worth since they are similar airframes. Like you, I am running 2 LiFe batts for my Rx in the CGRC (Spektrum 2310 Powersafe 12 ch.) but also running a separate 7.4V batt for the landing gear which are older model Century Jet (R.I.P.). Not sure what D&L requires for power? I found I needed the extra nose weight anyway so it is not a burden. Bottom line is I have 7 batteries total to get the pig airborne.

                                    I charge those LiFe at 1c as I do all of my LiPo's for my other planes, unless I am really in a hurry. Then I charge at 1.1. Ha ha. IMHO, there is just no need to force feed the battery any harder. The time savings of a few minutes of my day charging at 2.0 C for example, is not worth the overall risk. With a couple packs in rotation, by the time I am ready to fly again, so are the batteries if that makes sense. I store the LiFe's at or at least "government work close enough" to the 3.3V that OV10 showed above.

                                    As far as charging, my main charger now is a 1000W PowerLab 6 Touch. This thing can tie my shoes and make me coffee and it probably has features I don't even know about yet but I like the battery parameter history and the different geeky charge details it records, even if I don't know what they mean. It also has a Bluetooth connection to an app on my phone that says "...Hey idiot, your batteries are done..." I use it with a parallel board and can charge 4 batts at once but normally only charge 2 at a time so I don't tax the solar system at our field. 2 6S 5000's at a normal "fill up" takes 30 minutes or less - about the time the pizza arrives. I don't use the RFID "bump tags" the charger comes with. Honestly, they are really cool but the total time savings is about 7 seconds since the batteries are stored in the charger memory. A couple button presses and you are off.

                                    Hope that helps. PS. My A-10 obsession probably requires professional help. I forced (sic) myself to buy a T-33 and also have a F-100 "Hun" on order so I could make myself feel normal.

                                    Cheers.

                                    Comment


                                    • #98
                                      Originally posted by gravity tester View Post
                                      Hi Jink-
                                      I am so far from an expert I can't even see the "E" but I offer this for what it is worth since they are similar airframes. Like you, I am running 2 LiFe batts for my Rx in the CGRC (Spektrum 2310 Powersafe 12 ch.) but also running a separate 7.4V batt for the landing gear which are older model Century Jet (R.I.P.). Not sure what D&L requires for power? I found I needed the extra nose weight anyway so it is not a burden. Bottom line is I have 7 batteries total to get the pig airborne.

                                      I charge those LiFe at 1c as I do all of my LiPo's for my other planes, unless I am really in a hurry. Then I charge at 1.1. Ha ha. IMHO, there is just no need to force feed the battery any harder. The time savings of a few minutes of my day charging at 2.0 C for example, is not worth the overall risk. With a couple packs in rotation, by the time I am ready to fly again, so are the batteries if that makes sense. I store the LiFe's at or at least "government work close enough" to the 3.3V that OV10 showed above.

                                      As far as charging, my main charger now is a 1000W PowerLab 6 Touch. This thing can tie my shoes and make me coffee and it probably has features I don't even know about yet but I like the battery parameter history and the different geeky charge details it records, even if I don't know what they mean. It also has a Bluetooth connection to an app on my phone that says "...Hey idiot, your batteries are done..." I use it with a parallel board and can charge 4 batts at once but normally only charge 2 at a time so I don't tax the solar system at our field. 2 6S 5000's at a normal "fill up" takes 30 minutes or less - about the time the pizza arrives. I don't use the RFID "bump tags" the charger comes with. Honestly, they are really cool but the total time savings is about 7 seconds since the batteries are stored in the charger memory. A couple button presses and you are off.

                                      Hope that helps. PS. My A-10 obsession probably requires professional help. I forced (sic) myself to buy a T-33 and also have a F-100 "Hun" on order so I could make myself feel normal.

                                      Cheers.
                                      I pretty much know what I needed to know now, I've only charged and used one of my life batteries playing around with my retracts. The voltage was a little low so I charged it up to the proper storage voltage last night. Hopefully I didn't damage it. The power safe receivers were un available for so long I ended up going with the spektrum 9 channel. I'm using one 2s 2200 to run the receiver and the other to power the retracts and lights. I really wanted the power safe receiver for piece of mind but you couldn't get one. Had one on backorder but they kept pushing the date back.

                                      Comment


                                      • #99
                                        Originally posted by jinkrat4791 View Post
                                        Sisaksen, my gear was rebuilt with bigger, stronger motors and a nice controller with door sequencers by Mitch at Down & Locked. He also machines all new parts for it including the trunnion. Only thing original is the frames. It cost $650 with the sequencer &500 without. Worth every penny. These are top quality retracts now and bullit proof too in my opinion. This much money in a plane, I want the wheels to come down every time I flip the switch. They are running on a standard 2s life battery at 6.6v. If you watch some of the YouTube vids of these things flying, in several of the vids they are flying around with the gear only partially retracted because the motors on the factory gear are not strong enough to raise the gear with the added wind resistance during flight. I saw you ask about an Electron replacement in the other thread. It's not much cheaper than the upgrade and it's quite a bit of work to fit them. With the upgrade they just bolt right back in
                                        Wow, I had to take some time away from the build and thread, so a lot has been posted. Thanks to all.

                                        Jinkrat, the Down and Locked upgrade, did that include electric brakes as well? For my field, I believe I really need them to ensure stopping with the approach we have. Agree on wanting the strength.

                                        Comment


                                        • Originally posted by jinkrat4791 View Post
                                          I'm strongly considering hysoling the nacelles to the fuselage. The reason being is I am really leaning towards getting rid of those giant screw access holes in the top of the the thing and filling and blending where it's mates up to the fuse. To me it's got a giant foamie look to it, just screwed together. It wouldn't be difficult and it won't add enough weight to be of any concern. It won't kill me on time either.

                                          Do y'all think it will improve the looks enough to be worth it. And remember I like doing this kinda thing do it's not a chore or anything? And with my snow cammo scheme going on most of the work will be covered, the little that isn't can be easily blended back in. I already had the matching paint and my two Grey's for the job mixed and ready to go
                                          Have you considered putty and paint so you can later take it apart if necessary, or another less permanent approach? Just thinking on that and wondering, so would like to hear your thoughts.

                                          Comment

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