Official Freewing MiG-29 Fulcrum Twin 80mm Thread

[Captain MoMo]

I will just say that those using the stabs only for pitch on this jet are offending the Gods and will burn in hell for eternity.

Can you please advise us mortals on how you recommend the controls to be setup? Tailerons? 😄

[fredmdbud]

I will just say that those using the stabs only for pitch on this jet are offending the Gods and will burn in hell for eternity.

Then I shall bring some marshmallows, graham crackers and chocolate to make myself at home.

[fredmdbud]

That’s interesting as the promodeler claims higher torque (70oz@4.8v) than the hitec d85mg(50oz@4.8v). 🤔

His problem was not the torque, it was the servo speed at that voltage (0.20 sec).

[viper1gj]

Can you please advise us mortals on how you recommend the controls to be setup? Tailerons? 😄

Yes. I'm using a 30% mix from ailerons to stabs for full time roll control. It's an easy function to do in my Jeti radio. It is essential IMO for high AOA roll control where the up going aileron is ineffective and the down going aileron is mostly drag creating adverse yaw. The roll control from the stabs makes it very controllable. I fly all my full flying stab jets this way.
Gary

[mshagg]

Yes. I'm using a 30% mix from ailerons to stabs for full time roll control. It's an easy function to do in my Jeti radio. It is essential IMO for high AOA roll control where the up going aileron is ineffective and the down going aileron is mostly drag creating adverse yaw. The roll control from the stabs makes it very controllable. I fly all my full flying stab jets this way.
Gary

Do you reduce the pitch weight as well for your taileron mix (i.e. to keep overall travel at around 39mm)?

[viper1gj]

Do you reduce the pitch weight as well for your taileron mix (i.e. to keep overall travel at around 39mm)?

No, I did not even consider that. I just activated the mix with 30% roll input from ailerons and never measured it. I don't think it is critical. I may bump the mix up to 50% next time out just to see if it makes any more difference. I've used up to 50% on my big F-16 with great success especially at high AOA slow flight and slow high AOA rolling maneuvers.

If you are going medium to fast speed it rolls fast and feels very responsive. If you are very slow with a very high AOA, I mean like at 30-45 degree pitch attitude in level flight, it makes a huge difference in roll control, from almost none and sloppy to very controllable. In normal faster flight I am usually not, almost like never, at full elevator and full aileron at the same time so I wouldn't worry much about exceeding 39mm throw. If you do use max roll and pitch commands, it is for a very short time and then your commanding something else quickly.

Overall it just really rolls well at normal speeds and is much more controllable at very high AOA when slow. Also, I think it really helps when at approach speed to landing because you are slower and at a higher AOA there also. Give it a try, you will like it.

Gary

[Evan D]

My mix is 50%...

[viper1gj]

My mix is 50%...

Thanks, I'll bump mine to 50% next time out.

[Airguardian]

Can you please advise us mortals on how you recommend the controls to be setup? Tailerons? 😄

There you have it. :)

What Viper said.
And if you want to get into post-stall maneuvering throw in a position on your rates with full throws and much more expo.

[Captain MoMo]

Yes. I'm using a 30% mix from ailerons to stabs for full time roll control. It's an easy function to do in my Jeti radio. It is essential IMO for high AOA roll control where the up going aileron is ineffective and the down going aileron is mostly drag creating adverse yaw. The roll control from the stabs makes it very controllable. I fly all my full flying stab jets this way.
Gary

Thanks Gary - so by using a 30% mix you mean on a roll command the elevators will act as ailerons (tailerons) with movement that is limited to 30% of full elevator throw? So both ailerons and elevators will roll the model?

[mshagg]

No, I did not even consider that. I just activated the mix with 30% roll input from ailerons and never measured it. I don't think it is critical. I may bump the mix up to 50% next time out just to see if it makes any more difference. I've used up to 50% on my big F-16 with great success especially at high AOA slow flight and slow high AOA rolling maneuvers.

If you are going medium to fast speed it rolls fast and feels very responsive. If you are very slow with a very high AOA, I mean like at 30-45 degree pitch attitude in level flight, it makes a huge difference in roll control, from almost none and sloppy to very controllable. In normal faster flight I am usually not, almost like never, at full elevator and full aileron at the same time so I wouldn't worry much about exceeding 39mm throw. If you do use max roll and pitch commands, it is for a very short time and then your commanding something else quickly.

Overall it just really rolls well at normal speeds and is much more controllable at very high AOA when slow. Also, I think it really helps when at approach speed to landing because you are slower and at a higher AOA there also. Give it a try, you will like it.

Gary

Thanks Gary, really appreciate the thoughtful response. Agree that it should be a very rare occasion where you're exploring the full extent of the travel - my primary concern is that the leading edge of the horizontal stab will foul on the vertical stab once you go beyond the 39mm called out in the manual. Probably having a bad day if you're at full forward stick in high rates anyway!

Tailerons have been on the to-do list since the last time jandro shamed us for not using them lol. But with a lot of testing, lots of other planes to crash and one trip to the field a week I havent gotten around to it.

On the F-14 i stole RCGeek's programming methodology which is primarily tailerons for roll but with trailing-edge up ailerons on the wings (when extended). Really like the linear feel it provides and, i'll probably get told off for saying so, it reduces the amount of rudder needed to keep the nose pointed where you want it.

[paulrkytek]

Would you need the taileron mix with thrust vectoring or will the vectoring compensate for the aileron control reduction in effectiveness in high alpha ????\

[mshagg]

Would you need the taileron mix with thrust vectoring or will the vectoring compensate for the aileron control reduction in effectiveness in high alpha ????\

I imagine the brave souls flying this jet post stall will take every little bit of control they can. That is the recommended setup for the Sukhoi.

The large features on the tail end of this jet will look pretty awesome wriggling around like medusa's head.

[Airguardian]

Aye!
You just don't throw away your options to control the plane, take advantage of them all instead!
(...Canards excluded!) rofl

[janmb]

I will just say that those using the stabs only for pitch on this jet are offending the Gods and will burn in hell for eternity.

+1!

[Evan D]

I just went out and made a video of my mixing. Tailerons, full span flaps, crow and rudder airbrakes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cjf3px05o8I

[paulrkytek]

I just went out and made a video of my mixing. Tailerons, full span flaps, crow and rudder airbrakes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cjf3px05o8I

Very informative video Evan, although I am not buying this jet its still worth posing questions, you never know I might change my mind next year!!!

[Evan D]

I have the same on my OV-10 Bronco, Arrows MiG29, F-22 and F-18. Full span ailerons too on the F-22. On the OV-10 I also have differential throttles. There are other planes like a FPV Grand Cruiser, and my gliders, that got some, but not all, of it.

The set up in the video is all neutral in flight too so I can use it all and not worry about it. The elevator comp is correct.

[mshagg]

Thanks Evan for the useful video, definitely taking some notes!

[John Bergsmith]

I just went out and made a video of my mixing. Tailerons, full span flaps, crow and rudder airbrakes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cjf3px05o8I

Excellent video Evan!