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Official Freewing MiG-29 Fulcrum Twin 80mm Thread

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  • Well first flights with the TV nozzles this morning.

    Recommended keeping it a few mistakes high as it takes a bit of time and effort to get the nose pointed down once you're done waggling the sticks.

    Install is a breeze, really well thought out design. There's a couple of panel lines marked under the fuse - make an incision there and you have a clear run to push the servo wires up to the battery area.

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    • Congrats on remaiden!

      Pics of the wire routing?

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      • Sure thing (battery bay wiring loom is... classified)

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        • Team first shaggers classified is 4 fbi or ccp.

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          • I assume that you used the wire thingy to get the wires passed through? Nice job!

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            • Originally posted by mshagg View Post
              Recommended keeping it a few mistakes high as it takes a bit of time and effort to get the nose pointed down once you're done waggling the sticks.
              From your recent post in another thread:
              Mig 29 is a little scary with the thrust vectoring nozzles installed.
              Can you elaborate on this a bit more? What kind of maneuver are you doing just prior to it "being scary"? "Waggling the sticks"????

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              • Click image for larger version

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ID:	291203 Colors of Kazakhstan with some light weathering .. Callie graphics of course

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                • Originally posted by pullupnow View Post
                  Colors of Kazakhstan with some light weathering .. Callie graphics of course
                  PUN, Super repaint. Beautiful bird. Best, LB
                  I solemnly swear to "over-celebrate" the smallest of victories.
                  ~Lucky B*st*rd~

                  You'll never be good at something unless you're willing to suck at it first.
                  ~Anonymous~

                  AMA#116446

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                  • Originally posted by Elbee View Post

                    PUN, Super repaint. Beautiful bird. Best, LB
                    Thank you Sir!

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                    • Be aware that the supplied ball links break easily. Also the control horns on the model get more brittle as the temperature drops.
                      4QR1HU9N7

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                      • Originally posted by 4qr1hu9n7 View Post
                        Be aware that the supplied ball links break easily. Also the control horns on the model get more brittle as the temperature drops.
                        Rodger that! Thanks

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                        • Originally posted by Airguardian View Post
                          I assume that you used the wire thingy to get the wires passed through? Nice job!
                          Yep the beloved go-get-em wire from freewing made light work of it.

                          Originally posted by xviper View Post
                          From your recent post in another thread:

                          Can you elaborate on this a bit more? What kind of maneuver are you doing just prior to it "being scary"? "Waggling the sticks"????
                          Im not as sophisticated as most when it comes to TV. Take plane up high, slow it up, rotate it around a few axis, get nose pointed down, carry on.

                          Probably from being spoilt by the SU35 which generally gets its nose down once you relax the controls. As has been well documented the Mig can/will pretty much just sink with a slighly nose-high attitude (so-called falling leaf), i was surprised how much input/throttle was needed to force the nose down from this configuration. So there's a moment there where you're left wondering if it's going to come good. Rolling onto its back is probably a better strategy.

                          Have made some adjustments to get some more throw on the nozzles, other than that it's just something to get used to. Im sure it wont be a problem for people with more TV experience.

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                          • I had to look at what thread I'm in... The ball links on the MiG break easy? I've never broken a FreeWing ball link and the one's on this MiG are bigger than the ones on other FW planes.


                            Originally posted by 4qr1hu9n7 View Post
                            Be aware that the supplied ball links break easily. Also the control horns on the model get more brittle as the temperature drops.

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                            • Originally posted by mshagg View Post
                              Im not as sophisticated as most when it comes to TV. Take plane up high, slow it up, rotate it around a few axis, get nose pointed down, carry on.

                              Probably from being spoilt by the SU35 which generally gets its nose down once you relax the controls. As has been well documented the Mig can/will pretty much just sink with a slighly nose-high attitude (so-called falling leaf), i was surprised how much input/throttle was needed to force the nose down from this configuration. So there's a moment there where you're left wondering if it's going to come good. Rolling onto its back is probably a better strategy.

                              Have made some adjustments to get some more throw on the nozzles, other than that it's just something to get used to. Im sure it wont be a problem for people with more TV experience.
                              Intriguing! I've had quite a few jets with the VT - Eurofighter, SU-35, V2 F/A-18, a couple of SebArt MiGs. Of all of these, the SebArts were the only ones that were designed to be extremely tail heavy. This was to make them easily go into a nose high attitude and stay there to achieve a vertical hover. It was only with the VT nozzles that it was possible to get them out of this attitude. I got tired of flying them as 3D jets most of the time. Took too much concentration, so I started to move the CG forward so they flew more naturally as "normal" planes.
                              All those other VT jets didn't have a tail heavy nature on purpose. They flew fairly "normally" and required more effort to fly high alpha when desired, which wasn't a problem. I'm beginning to think that this MiG isn't so "nose heavy" as some think it is. Perhaps it's not such a good idea to more the CG aft as much as some people think it ought to be. However, now that VT nozzles are available, having a more aft CG is OK, but not so OK if VT is not incorporated into the plane. I've been flying mine with the CG about 10mm back. When I install the VT nozzles, I'm going to keep the CG there and see how that works out. It might even be worth while to start moving the batteries forward and go back to the stock CG (maybe even further forward than that) and see what happens. The VT nozzles will be there to assist in pitch control if need be. I think it'll be fun to do some experimenting.

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                              • The lack of cooling air flow vents in the battery compartment has been mentioned as a concern in prior posts. I also would prefer some airflow for both batteries and the BEC. Soooo.....I implemented a very EASY fix and verified with smoking Q-tips held in the rear battery area. MAN!!! What a difference. The lid on mine fits with a slight gap, so air inlets shouldn’t be needed.

                                Note: The vent cuts are made on the intake wall nearest the center of the fuselage....do this for both left inlet tunnel and right inlet tunnel.

                                There is an odd shaped foam wall with an air passage around it (the air gap is toward the fuselage topside) in the guts of the center fuselage, so start the cut no further forward than the 4.5 cm ahead of the fan as shown. I centered it at 2.5 cm from the edge, and made the base (fan side) of the triangle 1.5 cm wide.

                                After doing this on both fans, there is significant air flow moving from the rear battery to the fans. I will experiment with smoke with the lid on. If I don’t see smoke being sucked in, I will add some intake vents somewhere or a thin shim on both sides of the lid seat area to hold a thin gap open.

                                This is an EASY modification to get some cooling air flow for the hot summer flying to come.

                                It ain’t pretty work, but it is totally enclosed, so I didn’t focus on craftsmanship.

                                You can see the aluminum pipe tape RF “shielding” that I added....might help and might not. Doesn’t hurt.

                                I found a tiny piece of rock embedded in the foam ahead of one fan and saw the damage it did to several blades before it was shot out and into the foam. It is a good idea to periodically inspect even these somewhat protected fans. Who would have thought?

                                -GG


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                                • I have a cc bec pro installed on mine and i was curious if running it at 5.5 volts will be an issue. The stock bec is 5v (at best). The servos show that they can go up to 6v. Im im using hitec d85s for the tailerons and know they will be fine, but will the blue box or the landing gear be fine. I couldnt find anything on the specs of those two components. Im only running the wing servos and the landing gear through the blue box

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                                  • You’ll be fine, most of the FW planes run on 5.5V.

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                                    • Originally posted by xviper View Post
                                      It might even be worth while to start moving the batteries forward and go back to the stock CG (maybe even further forward than that) and see what happens. The VT nozzles will be there to assist in pitch control if need be. I think it'll be fun to do some experimenting.
                                      Be careful Xviper. As noted prior posts, the FFS’s pivot is ahead of the center of pressure. Forward CG means a lot of stress on the servos as they work to hold the nose level. Firebird’s tests confirmed high current draw and commensurate lower voltage at the FFS servos under load.

                                      Prior posts caution against a CG that requires more than 1 or 2 mm FFS leading edge below the bottom fuselage line. I have my CG (wheels down) at 15 mm aft of mark, and I fly with about 1-2 mm below the bottom fuselage line.

                                      -GG

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                                      • Reflex changes the trim significantly.

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                                        • Originally posted by GliderGuy View Post

                                          Be careful Xviper. As noted prior posts, the FFS’s pivot is ahead of the center of pressure. Forward CG means a lot of stress on the servos as they work to hold the nose level. Firebird’s tests confirmed high current draw and commensurate lower voltage at the FFS servos under load.

                                          Prior posts caution against a CG that requires more than 1 or 2 mm FFS leading edge below the bottom fuselage line. I have my CG (wheels down) at 15 mm aft of mark, and I fly with about 1-2 mm below the bottom fuselage line.

                                          -GG
                                          It may require some fine tuning of the VT nozzles as to which angle they should be set at to assist the elevators. On both my SebArt MiGs, the nozzles are pointing the thrust slightly UP, thereby requiring a bit less elevator in the UP trim.

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