Official Freewing MiG-29 Fulcrum Twin 80mm Thread

[xviper]

Sometimes we are our own enemy. KISS

This is SO true - for some, more than others. Some obsess over something to the point they shoot themselves in the foot and then wonder why nobody has any sympathy for them.

I think if you buy this model you will just fret and worry yourself needlessly and not get any enjoyment. Don't do it. The fact that many, many are flying successfully is not relevant.

Totally agree. This is NOT a plane for CM. In fact, there are many, many planes that should NOT be for him. EVERY RC model plane has the potential for catastrophic problems. When it comes crashing down, the finger pointing begins and it's not always fun to have a mirror at the end of the finger.

[Captain Moron]

We agree XVIPER. I have decided this is now not the model for me. The £600 I save by not buying the Mig I have put to buying the HSD T33. At least I have confidence in that model
Let that be an end to it. You have your view and I respect that and I have mine view on the Mig 29

[Airguardian]

Nobody actually answered the main question unless I missed it. Short answer is no, there should not be any harm in adding another cap.

To add to your reply I have been using caps for a long time on my jets and helis. They work very well, but mind that when you disconnect the battery, the caps keep the system working for a few seconds depending con capacity and idle current draw. Servos often go mad during this slow-power off and deflect in weird directions, not sure if this 'slowed-down' power off has any detrimental effect to electronics in the long term.

So you think that is OK to sell an expensive model with a know problem?

But it's a well documented problem with known fixes. There basically is no 'perfect-out-of-the-box' model in our hobby. Wish they had done a few things better with the MiG but it's still a damn fine aircraft and very worth it. Just be thorough and read through the thread and apply the corresponding upgrades. My 2 cents.

[Captain Moron]

Thanks Airguardian, at least that was a constructive comment

[crxmanpat]

I think because of the geometry of the horizontal stabs this model has a couple limitations. These are things you should not do:

1. Low, slow high alpha flight (high alpha with some altitude is fine, just be prepared to recover from a falling leaf scenario).
2. Fast flight with flaps down.

Other than that, this model flies fine, at least it has for me.

[Evan D]

Even with TV and not “high alpha” I’ve gotten into a wing rocking not locked in feeling where it didn’t want to fall out and back into better controlled games flight...

between the exhaust angle and the stabs... I do have the whole wing plus tips reflexed and the balance about a inch behind book value.

[Hugh Wiedman]

It's been "Out of stock" for quite a while.

It would not surprise me in the least if there are changes when it finally comes back in stock.

I kind of doubt there will be any changes forthcoming, only because if there are major changes, that opens a Pandora's Box on what to do with the hundreds (or maybe thousands) of Mig's already out there. A real marketing/recall/etc nightmare. Additionally, I think the delay has had a lot to do with the manufacturing delays caused possibly by the pandemic but also the Chinese New Year's vacations, but then I'm usually wrong on all my prognostications.

Is this a model that falls under the category of "buyer beware" and "proceed at your own risk"? Undoubtedly, but after personally seeing what modifications RudyD54 did and how incredible it has flown, I am still going to roll the dice when it gets back in stock. But that's my decision, and each has to make their own and can't be faulted for whatever it is. The odds of a crash in my case from "manufacture's errors" vs my piloting/maintenance/set-up errors is so small it's insignificant. I'd be happy to blame a mishap on someone else for a change, so I'm down with that.

[Evan D]

All models are really at your own risk.

I think it’s time for Motion, as a major FW retailer, to come out and tell every one what’s happening with this, and maybe other, planes. My understanding is they are not actually out of stock but on hold pending FW saying they can be sold.

pending that mine, with TVs has been for sale in the classifieds for a while...

[themudduck]

Hey Capt M, I don't think this plane is defective. However there are MANY aspects to the MIG that require some knowledge and understanding of measures that need to be taken. Its something we learn as we go along in this hobby, For example, the B26 Marauder came (in many cases) with hinges that weren't glued in. We're all in the habit of checking ALL of our planes for things like that before flying. The B24 will bust a prop on takeoff if you're not careful. The Phantom's elevator servo isn't secure. My T45 had misaligned slats. The MIG has several things that need special attention, such as the balance, the entire elevator linkage setup, the battery placement, and so on. I guess it can depend on your point of view - we certainly demand a top level of professional-quality when we make a purchase of an elite model like this one. But there are always things that we have to do, that's just normal. I agree with what Hugh wrote.

I'll repeat what I said before - after making virtually ALL of the modifications suggested in this thread last summer, I had this happen: the elevators stopped working for about 5 seconds while I was flying level, at a medium power setting, without flaps. Before it headed back to China I cut the power and the elevators started working just in time for me to pull out - and then I landed normally (except for a lot of extra adrenaline and leg-shaking). The only reason that I can imagine for this sudden loss of all elevator control is the elevators saw low voltage for a moment (the tail has the longest wire runs). The flight battery had plenty of power - for whatever reason, the BEC is "glitching" and voltage drops off for no particular reason that we've been able to determine. So when I saw that note about the capacitor in the manual for the gyro I thought, well perhaps adding another capacitor might help provide a little extra insurance against a momentary voltage drop. Thanks to everyone for their comments!! It sounds like adding another cap won't hurt anything. I may even try using a small 4.8v battery.

[Hugh Wiedman]

All models are really at your own risk.

I think it’s time for Motion, as a major FW retailer, to come out and tell every one what’s happening with this, and maybe other, planes. My understanding is they are not actually out of stock but on hold pending FW saying they can be sold.

pending that mine, with TVs has been for sale in the classifieds for a while...

Interesting point, you may be on to something, sounds as logical as anything else. As far as the few that I know the owners of here, they feel it is the best EDF they have, so I still hope they get them back for sale.

[mshagg]

I'd theorise that if there were changes afoot they wouldn't still be releasing promotional content, per this week's thrust vectoring vid.

[Airguardian]

I kind of doubt there will be any changes forthcoming, only because if there are major changes, that opens a Pandora's Box on what to do with the hundreds (or maybe thousands) of Mig's already out there. A real marketing/recall/etc nightmare.

Don't think so. They've done it before and it should be standard procedure (think of the F-18, for instance).
Here I totally agree with Evan, all models are at your own risk, that should be first and foremost!

Then again, I may have heard a thing or two, and some things were posted in the forums (here or RCG, I don't recall) to that regard.
I don't know what the exact changes will be but I'm expecting to see some. ;)

I'll repeat what I said before - after making virtually ALL of the modifications suggested in this thread last summer, I had this happen: the elevators stopped working for about 5 seconds while I was flying level, at a medium power setting, without flaps.

Were you using an upgraded UBEC (say, 20A) from a separate 2S Li-Po pack?
Then no, you didn't follow all the mods!

(Also, were you using stock servos?)

[GliderGuy]

It will be interesting to see what, if any, mods MRC makes when order entry re-opens. Especially with all the information put forth in this forum available for MRC to read.

While I have decided, for now, not to spend the money on a radio with more channels...thus locking myself out of the TV option...the adoption of many of the mods put forth in the forum have given me a greater piece of mind and added to the enjoyment of flying the MiG. This hobby is an "everything works fine until it doesn't" endeavor. In evidence...my F-4's elevator servo becoming intermittent / failure / crash a week ago while on final approach (now repaired and flying again).

Of all my RC planes, the MiG is my favorite...and a darn good jet IMO. I have learned a lot from flying it and from others posts (deep stall recovery, etc.). But, if you are not willing to tinker with it and do the mods, then move to another plane. The AL37 is about as close to a "fly it out of the box w/o mods" larger EDF as I have experienced. Initially, all I did was add the RF choke filters and go fly it....trouble free...and for tons of flights. So, there are definitely options like this available (buy and fly w/o mods that is). But, the MiG is soooo darn cool and flies so well.

Add Note: After wearing out my first AL37 and retiring it to hangar queen status....even this airliner can benefit from tinkering and adding carbon fiber bracing to the top of the wing's internal wiring channel to stiffen the upper wing skin against fatigue cracking which developed in the area above the motor mounts on AL37 #1. Also, additional bracing added to the inside of the top of the fuselage joint helps to prevent joint separation upon a hard landing. All added evidence that this is a tinkering hobby no matter what.

If the designs were close to perfect, we would not like the price we'd have to pay for them. However, I have been impressed by the overall quality and value of Freewing and Flightline products I have purchased to date (A-10, F-4, MiG-29, P-38, AL37). And MRC's customer #1 approach to their business is first rate.

-GG

[Hugh Wiedman]

Well I for one am counting on the Mig coming back. Already have most of the modified equipment I plan on installing and even have Callie working on some custom graphics. I'll end up looking kind of silly if it doesn't come back and will never live it down with the wifey trying to explain all the parts for a non existent aircraft when complaining about her endless deliveries of shoes and purses! This can't be much worse than anything else in my hangar, most of which I can't really fly well either.

[janmb]

It's been "Out of stock" for quite a while.

It would not surprise me in the least if there are changes when it finally comes back in stock.

I consider that more or less confirmed at this point, based on several independent people being told so by various customer support representatives. Exactly what they do remains to be seen though.

[themudduck]

I flew four flights today, with two capacitors installed for glitch protection and everything went well. Over the winter I installed burner lights, and a few weights in the back but the plane still balanced exactly as before (a little nose heavy). Anyway everything went well, there were no issues with the elevators. I did find that it seemed to take longer to take off than before, perhaps the burners are reducing the thrust a bit. But I had no problems and enjoyed flying. Here's a video that I took. This is a Runcam mounted on the outer pylon.

Interesting thing about the burners - they plug into one of the two flight batteries, the other flight battery powers the ESC. After my flights today, the batteries were both discharged equally so I thought that worked out rather well.

[fishface5]

Can anyone tell me why the MIG 29 is not coming back on the market? Its been long enough since motion put it on backorder

[kallend]

I flew four flights today, with two capacitors installed for glitch protection and everything went well. Over the winter I installed burner lights, and a few weights in the back but the plane still balanced exactly as before (a little nose heavy). Anyway everything went well, there were no issues with the elevators. I did find that it seemed to take longer to take off than before, perhaps the burners are reducing the thrust a bit. But I had no problems and enjoyed flying. Here's a video that I took. This is a Runcam mounted on the outer pylon.

Interesting thing about the burners - they plug into one of the two flight batteries, the other flight battery powers the ESC. After my flights today, the batteries were both discharged equally so I thought that worked out rather well.

The burner LEDs - any brand- are consuming less than 1 amp. That would have a miniscule effect on battery drain or performance.

[Captain Moron]

fishface5
Is it out of stock or has it been withdrawn from sale due to this evevator problem. I think it has been withdrawn from sale and not out of stock at all. Hence the long wait for it to come back in stock. It is about time Freewing/MRC told us the truth on this subject. A lot of people have lost a lot of money with so many strange crashes all with no elevator contoll on this model but Freewing/MRC and people on this forum will not admit there is a serious problem with this model

[lusek_pl]

It should be mentioned that the sale in Europe was supposed to be from October, while it is almost April and it is not on sale in a moment. Motion does not respect customers a bit by not informing what is really going on