Official Freewing MiG-29 Fulcrum Twin 80mm Thread

[xviper]

Anything other than "they're awaiting stock" should be discounted as unfounded speculation. That includes hearsay suggesting they're doing testing, considering revisions to the design or witholding the jet from sale due to feedback, as we have heard from unverified sources.

If help desk staff are confusing the message as has been suggested, Motion might consider tidying up the communications around the model and ensure advice provided to customers is consistent with the official position. Along with the usual rumour mill stuff there are actors who are happy to promote the speculation as fact to the extent it suits their (negative) narrative about Motion/Freewing.

Is it possible for a conversation to be redacted?

[Sky Wolf]

Anything other than "they're awaiting stock" should be discounted as unfounded speculation. That includes hearsay suggesting they're doing testing, considering revisions to the design or witholding the jet from sale due to feedback, as we have heard from unverified sources.

If help desk staff are confusing the message as has been suggested, Motion might consider tidying up the communications around the model and ensure advice provided to customers is consistent with the official position. Along with the usual rumour mill stuff there are actors who are happy to promote the speculation as fact to the extent it suits their (negative) narrative about Motion/Freewing.

Very well said!
I’ve only ever known MRC to do right by us ALL, including information being handed down. Just gotta wait it out to see what comes down the pipeline. Customer Service may not always be in-the-know of the internals of company decisions.

Keep em’ flying!

[Sky Wolf]

Fred was talking about the Yak when he said discontinued and I think Wolf thought
he was talking about the MiG. From what I was told FreeWing asked retailers to hold sales pending
an investigation, a big difference to being discontinued.

Either way it would be good to know what’s really happening and not second hand info.

Agreed, and let’s keep em’ flying. Enjoying the educational conversations going on about the MiG-29. But not the mud-slinging that has made its way into HobbySquawk.

[Shaun Evans]

Airguardian,

Speaking of needy videos, I happened upon your flight videos of the MiG-29, and it seems you're a pretty good stick. I was inspired to try slowing my MiG down and seeing how stably I can fly her at low airspeeds. As soon as I work out this CG problem.... :(

[Airguardian]

Thanks Shaun. :)
If you are to try flying the MiG slow, particularly in high alpha, either install TV nozzles or do at 5 mistakes high (As opposed to the usual 3 I recommend, lol).
The jet will bite you if it caughts you off guard with the high alpha lock and it requires fast, usually counter-intuitive action on the pilot's end to get out.

'Snappy' maneuvers are safer to execute in general terms. Going straight into high alpha is going to get you high-alpha locked rather sooner than later with almost all certainty.
This said, you can probably try doing the same in inverted flight without any such danger. The plane is super stable in inverted flight, rudders retain full authority and the off-thrustline conspires with the jet to pull you out of it just by adding throttle. Again, I'd recommend doing so only at a safe, conservative altitude. :)

[fredmdbud]

What exactly is this "alpha lock" mentioned? I'm assuming it actually means "alpha non-control", because after stall the nose will at some point drop as the plane enters into descent (without TV). Every other mention of "alpha lock" I can find refers to flight surface retraction limits (e.g. slat position) at high AoA.

I came across this while executing a turn too tightly (CG set back10mm aft) - the plane pitched up into a stall, nose drops, but when thrust reapplied with nose level there wasn't airflow over the wings and tails, so pitch up. Rinse and repeat until the plane was allowed to recover enough forward motion to re-establish lift and balanced forces.

[Shaun Evans]

Thanks Shaun. :)
If you are to try flying the MiG slow, particularly in high alpha, either install TV nozzles or do at 5 mistakes high (As opposed to the usual 3 I recommend, lol).
The jet will bite you if it caughts you off guard with the high alpha lock and it requires fast, usually counter-intuitive action on the pilot's end to get out.

'Snappy' maneuvers are safer to execute in general terms. Going straight into high alpha is going to get you high-alpha locked rather sooner than later with almost all certainty.
This said, you can probably try doing the same in inverted flight without any such danger. The plane is super stable in inverted flight, rudders retain full authority and the off-thrustline conspires with the jet to pull you out of it just by adding throttle. Again, I'd recommend doing so only at a safe, conservative altitude. :)

Hi,

Thanks for the tips. I've got a bit more confidence in the general habits of the airframe itself after watching all of the available YouTube on it. Mine has a Kingtech K-55 on it, so I don't have the instant thrust to help get out of trouble, so I'll definitely keep it high. My first flight after moving the CG back (too far) was nearly disastrous. With my extremely heavy wheels, the aft shift of the CG for landing was a mess. I made two missed-approaches and finally stalled her on the last one. She pitched straight up started tail-sliding to the ground. Luckily, the 5' tall weeds at the approach end of the runway (that were supposed to be trimmed the day before) broke her fall and she didn't suffer a single scratch or dent. The next two flights (after moving stuff around to take the CG back to near-nominal) were pretty good, but I didn't do much with her up there. The engine thrust line is OK because I get no trim changes in the pitch axis with throttle movement, but my inverted flight requires TOO MUCH down to maintain. Even then, it maintains attitude but still loses altitude. I'm still messing with the reflex and CG, but the heavy wheels are really biting me in the ass. Even 20mm aft from the factory marks is nose-heavy once those heavy wheels swing forward :(

[Airguardian]

Since you have the K-55 in there you may observe a totally different behaviour in high alpha handling since the 'lock' is mostly due to the thrustline keeping the nose up and overpowering stalled stabs. If your thrustline is more neutral, this may no longer be as relevant for you, but maybe you thrustline is still just as bad (likely, If I am to judge by your description of inverted flight), so be careful.

What exactly is this "alpha lock" mentioned? I'm assuming it actually means "alpha non-responsiveness", because after stall the nose will at some point drop as the plane enters into descent (without TV). Every other mention of "alpha lock" I can find refers to flight surface retraction limits (e.g. slat position) at high AoA ...

Once the jet goes past a certain AoA under certain speed, if you try to force the plane out with throttle, it pushes nose up, bleeds speed even further and stabs lose all authority, so the jet gets stuck there and you can't get out. Not enough authority to backflip, not enough authority to push nose back down and regain speed. Plane starts falling, typically with wing-rock.

As soon as you detect this trend developing, one should cut throttle immediately and push jet down, starting with a fast full-pitch-down flick, followed by just slow nose-down pressure until nose drops and SLOWLY start adding throttle as the jet regains speed. Jamming throttle wide open in this condition will force the nose up again.

Even with this in mind, I have found myself a couple of times where no throttle-recovery was taking too long.
In these more extreme scenarios, sometimes a quick throttle impulse can help break the pattern, or adding full counter roll/yaw inputs to force a spin that may send the nose into the ground too. If you are flying high, you have a few seconds to experiment with different alternatives. If you are low and your first one or two attempts don't break the jet free, chances are you are bound to eat the ground.

[radfordc]

What exactly is this "alpha lock" mentioned?

At high alpha and low airspeed adding more power (or I should say full power) the nose won't fall but rather the plane will descend in a nose high attitude with no control to speak of.

[GliderGuy]

In this forum, high alpha lock is also referred to as “falling leaf”. And, yes, the MiG does not respond to any control input other than throttle.

Recovery from low altitude is not assured.

-GG

[Shaun Evans]

Airguardian,

Remember when I said I was inspired? Well, I took the MiG out today and Cobra'd her! She got mushy in the recovery, but it looked a lot like yours from a distance. Right after that, I did it again with a flip! I think I've got the CG dialed in, and added a tiny bit more down-thrust on the engine. Now she inverts much better and the rolls are almost axial. Fun!

[Shaun Evans]

Hi,

Here's all my 12-year-old managed to get from yesterday. Doesn't show my good Cobra, but my my first attempt. Still looks pretty good for a nose-heavy bird with no TV. The beeping is the speed warning which was set to 24mph.

[Airguardian]

Love to hear that!
Great to see I have a positive influence!

[fishface5]

Is motion going to dis continue this aircraft? Its been over 5months since they went out of stock

[Airguardian]

Of course not.

[Evan D]

No and it’s not out of stock.

Is motion going to dis continue this aircraft? Its been over 5months since they went out of stock

[DCORSAIR]

No and it’s not out of stock.

So they are in stock even though it shows out of stock on the ARF & PNP??

[Evan D]

You’ve been here awhile and have seen my posts, right? FW asked the resellers to not sell what they have pending an investigation into redesigning the rear end.

I've been told the “out of stock” is almost over...

[DCORSAIR]

You’ve been here awhile and have seen my posts, right? FW asked the resellers to not sell what they have pending an investigation into redesigning the rear end.

I've been told the “out of stock” is almost over...

Oh okay, and no I don't pay much attention to your posts so I didn't know about that, does look like RC Castle has them to sell.

[Evan D]

If you go to the top of the page you can see the discussion.