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Official Freewing MiG-29 Fulcrum Twin 80mm Thread

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  • Less upthrust was discussed, but as I recall….this opens another can of worms. I may be remembering from another forum.

    Let’s see what others post about this.

    -GG

    Comment


    • When I put the TVs on mine I tried a turn of down thrust. It didn't help, still felt odd.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Evan D View Post
        When I put the TVs on mine I tried a turn of down thrust. It didn't help, still felt odd.
        Based on AirGuardian videos and lots of flying….I don’t think a fixed nozzle change is gonna do what you want.

        IMHO

        The issue is getting outa alpha lock. Only certain ways to do it AG is an expert at it. It isn’t always easy to do. Pulsed throttle, no throttle, flicked sticks, etc. AND….always ALTITUDE is needed. I lacked altitude!

        -GG

        Comment


        • Not sure why you quote me as I've said the same thing all along and was one of the first both flying the Mig and flying it with TVs. I know Alejandro is great and posts great videos but that doesn't mean there aren't others flying their planes too.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Evan D View Post
            Not sure why you don’t quote me as I've said the same thing all along and was one of the first both flying the Mig and flying it with TVs. I know Alejandro is great and posts great videos but that doesn't mean there aren't others flying their planes too.
            No doubt. AG and I were recently PMing / Top of my mind.

            It wasn’t my intent to slight anyone. I apologize.

            -GG

            Comment


            • It WILL work. Just need to test enough versions to nail the right thrustline.

              RIP your little MiG, she was an inspiration for everyone else as to how much can an EDF jet last... now she flies higher. :)

              Comment


              • Originally posted by kallend View Post
                Since you’re not rebuilding, would you be willing to sacrifice a nozzle and measure its dimensions inside and out? I’m considering creating a set with different thrust lines to help avoid the gremlin without going to VT.
                Hi Kallend,

                OK...I will get the measurements done on a tail nozzle for you early next week. Unfortunately, I don't have the free time until then.

                Maybe someone else has the measurements already?

                -GG

                Comment


                • Somebody created a set of decorative nozzles for the Mig, which might be helpful.

                  https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4659231

                  I was another who tried tinkering with thrust line using VT trim. IMO it's not that simple. You needed *more* nose up trim on the horizontal stabilisers when on power, which was already pronounced even with a neutral CG, and then you have a funky trim change between power on/off when the h-stabs are effective.

                  ​​​​​If it saves a plane from an alpha locked belly flop then I guess it's worthwhile, but you will be trading one set of quirks for another.
                  ​​​​​​

                  Comment


                  • Great... "there's something not quite right..." and I haven't even flown my SU-30 yet or taken this Mig 29 out of the box...
                    Should I sell the Mig 29...?

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by jasmith41 View Post
                      Great... "there's something not quite right..." and I haven't even flown my SU-30 yet or taken this Mig 29 out of the box...
                      Should I sell the Mig 29...?
                      Consider (no VT kit installed):

                      1) I flew several thousand flights.
                      2) I had a blast flying her. She flies GREAT!
                      3) The high angle of attack alpha lock occurred 4 times in all the flying. I was able to recover 3 times.
                      4) The time I didn’t recover was weird wind sheer conditions. Probably should not have flown in these conditions.
                      5) You will miss a LOT of fun!
                      6) Add the vectored thrust nozzle kit, and pretty much the problem goes away. I didn’t add the VT kit because I don’t have enough channels.
                      7) My comment about not repairing was…”Not gonna spend $600 on parts. I will buy a new bird instead (see below).”

                      Your call. Just watch the videos and read and learn how to recover from it….and add the VT kit.

                      Would I buy another MiG-29? Yes…When I decide to buy new radio gear with more channels so I can add VT.

                      Would I buy another and fly her without adding VT? No. Small risk, but the gremlin is waiting to bite you as it eventually got me. VT will help keep the gremlin away.

                      -GG

                      Comment


                      • I agree 100%. While TV can get you out of alpha lock there is more than just changing the TV a couple degrees to fix the Mig all around quirkiness. I learned not to answer or argue with Jandro or others that something will work or not and just say what has or hasn't worked for me. For me a change in thrust angle was not a magic fix and I ended up putting it back to the TV centering marks.


                        JA, it's a very cool very large EDF. While I fully respect GG's opinion, mine is, I'd sell it in a heart beat. In fact mine went up for sale not very long after I had put the first flights on it even though I later said I'll keep it. I fly it rarely and every flight is "interesting". It is a plane I pull out when I want to show off a large, in your face, lets do tricks plane for fly in's.

                        FreeWing MiG-29 with TVs, upgrades.$700 - RC Groups



                        Originally posted by mshagg View Post
                        Somebody created a set of decorative nozzles for the Mig, which might be helpful.

                        https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4659231

                        I was another who tried tinkering with thrust line using VT trim. IMO it's not that simple. You needed *more* nose up trim on the horizontal stabilisers when on power, which was already pronounced even with a neutral CG, and then you have a funky trim change between power on/off when the h-stabs are effective.

                        ​​​​​If it saves a plane from an alpha locked belly flop then I guess it's worthwhile, but you will be trading one set of quirks for another.
                        ​​​​​​

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by mshagg View Post
                          I was another who tried tinkering with thrust line using VT trim. IMO it's not that simple. You needed *more* nose up trim on the horizontal stabilisers when on power, which was already pronounced even with a neutral CG, and then you have a funky trim change between power on/off when the h-stabs are effective.​​​​​​
                          Don't quite agree there. I replaced my nozzles with the VT ones and using the stock center marks for the nozzles the jet was immediately more balanced in thrustline. I didn't have to retrim much, if at all. If you still need to add a lot of pitch up trim, then you are likely still way too nose heavy. As a matter of fact, after installing my VT nozzles I moved the battery positions to keep the CG and I overdid it, ending up with a nose heavy CG, which quickly showed and gave me a few problems. But after moving aft the packs a tad and adding back a couple of wing rails to assist in lateral stability the plane improved substantially. It certainly flies much more aerobatic when the nozzles are enabled and you gotta be ready for that, but I didn't find the same issues that have been described here with mine.


                          Comment


                          • i did buy the VT kit for it and the replacement fans Hugh W recommended - all still in the box... :)

                            I'm going to learn a bit on my EFlite SU-30 (that i havent' flown yet but upgraded the fans anyway) and then move to the FW mig 29...

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by mshagg View Post
                              Somebody created a set of decorative nozzles for the Mig, which might be helpful.

                              https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4659231


                              ​​​​​​
                              That one has (approx) 3 degrees of thrust offset built-in (I assume it's upthrust). Would be a trivial matter in a slicer to change the thrustline.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by jasmith41 View Post
                                Great... "there's something not quite right..." and I haven't even flown my SU-30 yet or taken this Mig 29 out of the box...
                                Should I sell the Mig 29...?
                                Yes...most definitely sell it! After all, someone, somewhere on the internet, said something just a little critical of it. You certainly don't want to take into account the thousands of successful flights by many others.

                                The Mig has two known issues.... dropping flaps at high speed and high alpha lock. Both easily avoided.

                                Comment


                                • Originally posted by jasmith41 View Post
                                  Great... "there's something not quite right..." and I haven't even flown my SU-30 yet or taken this Mig 29 out of the box...
                                  Should I sell the Mig 29...?
                                  Overall is a great jet you just need to understand its limits and fly accordingly.

                                  That said, full disclosure I sold mine before I wrecked it lol.

                                  Originally posted by radfordc View Post
                                  Yes...most definitely sell it! After all, someone, somewhere on the internet, said something just a little critical of it. You certainly don't want to take into account the thousands of successful flights by many others.

                                  The Mig has two known issues.... dropping flaps at high speed and high alpha lock. Both easily avoided.
                                  A 'little critical'? These are pretty significant issues and it's not for any of us to tell another pilot whether they should accept them or not. At least they can make an informed decision.

                                  Comment


                                  • Speaking of informed decisions, I still think this MiG-29 rocks (despite obvious design shortcomings that Freewing should have thought better).
                                    There are very few proper modern fighter jets in this size and scale in the market, and this allows the plane to fly like no other, being much more realistic in a number of ways, plus it deals with windy and turbulent conditions much better than most, which is a great plus ;)

                                    Comment


                                    • thanks for scaring the **** out of me now - it's hard enough to fly these confidently when i only started a year ago...🤣🤣🤣

                                      Comment


                                      • Originally posted by jasmith41 View Post
                                        thanks for scaring the **** out of me now ...🤣🤣🤣
                                        Much more fun than taking a laxative. I find that most aircraft have at least 1 or 2 issues to deal with, so for me, the Mig is just like anything else, once you know the issues, fly accordingly. The F4, for all who love it (me included), you need to be careful not to starve the EDF when turning since it doesn't have cheater holes and you need to land slow enough and with the nose up so you don't break the nose pin. The Corsair's issue is while taking off keeping on the rudder & getting off too soon causing a wing stall and landing horizontally scale with power so you don't break the retracts. I could go on with every plane, but no need, you get the picture. If you want something with 0 issues, get a large Extreme Flight 3D plane and fly it like "Grandma", or work on 3D stunts and fill those britches!
                                        Hugh "Wildman" Wiedman
                                        Hangar: FL/FW: Mig 29 "Cobra", A-10 Arctic, F18 Canadian & Tiger Meet, F16 Wild Weasel, F4 Phantom & Blue Angel, 1600 Corsair & Spitfire, Olive B-24, Stinger 90, Red Avanti. Extreme Flight-Slick 60, 60" Extra 300 V2, 62" MXS Heavy Metal, MXS Green, & Demonstrator. FMS-1700mm P-51, Red Bull Corsair. E-Flite-70mm twin SU-30, Beast Bi-Plane 60", P2 Bi-Plane, P-51, Apprentice.

                                        Comment


                                        • Originally posted by GliderGuy View Post
                                          Would I buy another MiG-29? Yes…When I decide to buy new radio gear with more channels so I can add VT
                                          -GG
                                          Maybe consider equipment that uses S-bus.
                                          The advantages:
                                          - 16 channels standard. If you have a standard 8-channel receiver, the S-bus output allows you to hook up converters that add 4 channels each, or you could just hook up a 16-channel converter and have all of them available at once (it costs you the huge amount of less than 20 USD: https://nl.aliexpress.com/item/40009...yAdapt=glo2eng)
                                          - stabilizers like the A3SuperIII series accept S-bus input, so connecting just one servo cable to the stabilizer is enough to hook it up.
                                          Now there's even F-bus, with 24 channels, but not many receivers support this yet.

                                          Comment

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