Official Freewing MiG-29 Fulcrum Twin 80mm Thread

[Skosh25]

James i didn’t get the email last night but I did get my MiG yesterday. I assume everyone will get shipping notices when the servos go out the door?

[Gringotuerto]

This is a grab I took from the now infamous video on youtube. Note that there is some handling of the elevator before this is taken, so it does not represent the servo position at the point of impact.

But there is certainly an issue with the setup ;)

Wow, same thing...this would put quite a bit more stress on the servo. It may not seem like much extra distance, but the lever arm is about 30% longer, so that's about 30% more load on the servo. I'm going to wait for the new servo. But I'm also going to hook it to the right hole.

By the way, the truck in the background says "Guangzhou", which is just next to Shenzhen where Freewing is located. So either the flying field is in Guangzhou or some truck driver got lost.

[James]

James i didn’t get the email last night but I did get my MiG yesterday. I assume everyone will get shipping notices when the servos go out the door?

Definitely, these servos are being air freighted to our warehouse and then will leave asap. Everyone will get a standard shipping email like you would for any purchase

[Evan D]

On the other site there are many screaming the sky is falling (I'm saying this much nicer than they are) and many didn't and won't and where never going to buy the MiG.

I can see both sides of this but remember FreeWing manufactured these and Motion sells them. I think Motion is doing the right thing. Does anyone have any info about how other dealers/ distributors are handling this?

With the bulletin (they call it a notice and it's not a recall as one person called it) I decided to move my stab pushrods to the inner hole on the servo to get even better mechanical advantage on the servo. I also moved both servo arms forward one spline to get a nice right angle to the push rod. I also had to up my travel to between 120 and 125 to get 40mm full throw up and down.

This brings up a couple points I don't think anyone has mentioned.

First if you do not move the horn one spline you will get more down than up if you use the same numbers. I have both servos on separate channels to get tailerons and doing so made sub trim and throw adjustments easy.

Second, I found the servo horn screws were not very tight. I added a little white tube glue to the threads and tightened them well.

Third, I removed the ribbon cables and wing interconnections on mine and ran separate extensions. When I disconnected one of the servo wires from the back of the wing interconnection on one wing I found the connections had not been fully seated in the black servo wire plug. They looked like they were making good connection to the board though I never tested it.

Lastly, as on al my planes that have these wheel collar type rings to hold the stabs to a pivot rod I took a Dremel and cut a flat where the set screw tightens down and I used red loctite on the screw.

So, please check things when you put the plane together.

[Elbee]

Just my $00.02, has anyone considered actually static balancing the elevators LE/TE using the pivot point as center. Thinking about doing that on my F-18. Just seemed logical what with a full flying elevator of considerable size. Best, LB

[Edwin-0]

Alpha,
For us waiting in Europe are the servo’s going to be fitted or just in the box? Also if changed in warehouse can a note be put in to say that until 3rd batch arrive already fitted? May save some confusion.
Ian.

Thats what i was thinking.

[James]

On the other site there are many screaming the sky is falling (I'm saying this much nicer than they are) and many didn't and won't and where never going to buy the MiG.

I can see both sides of this but remember FreeWing manufactured these and Motion sells them. I think Motion is doing the right thing. Does anyone have any info about how other dealers/ distributors are handling this?

With the bulletin (they call it a notice and it's not a recall as one person called it) I decided to move my stab pushrods to the inner hole on the servo to get even better mechanical advantage on the servo. I also moved both servo arms forward one spline to get a nice right angle to the push rod. I also had to up my travel to between 120 and 125 to get 40mm full throw up and down.

This brings up a couple points I don't think anyone has mentioned.

First if you do not move the horn one spline you will get more down than up if you use the same numbers. I have both servos on separate channels to get tailerons and doing so made sub trim and throw adjustments easy.

Second, I found the servo horn screws were not very tight. I added a little white tube glue to the threads and tightened them well.

Third, I removed the ribbon cables and wing interconnections on mine and ran separate extensions. When I disconnected one of the servo wires from the back of the wing interconnection on one wing I found the connections had not been fully seated in the black servo wire plug. They looked like they were making good connection to the board though I never tested it.

Lastly, as on al my planes that have these wheel collar type rings to hold the stabs to a pivot rod I took a Dremel and cut a flat where the set screw tightens down and I used red loctite on the screw.

So, please check things when you put the plane together.

Fair points Evan. As we show in this video:

Regardless of the model, manufacturer etc. Everyone should always spend the time going over every inch of their model aircraft. RC aircraft exist in a toy niche unlike any other where once you leave the ground you are beholden to your pre-flight checks. Now obviously, somethings would be unknown to a customer, like it was to us, that placing the rod on the wrong servo hole could potentially end in a detrimental failure and that's hopefully why people buy from us. We have your back and will work diligently to fix these types of issues.

But that said, these models are 100% hand-assembled at the factory by 100's of people before they arrive at your door. So human error is always possible as far as a servo connection not fully seated etc. They should always be checked.

In regards to the MiG, this is why I love working for this company, because Freewing had spoken to the gentleman in Asia who videod his crash, and then the American who got his had the same issue, and both had the elevator arms on the outside hole so we hustled to correct it. 2 issues were enough to get our entire company in motion, wear a little egg on our face and get it right because we would much prefer everyone to have success rather than failure.

That said, the MiG I received here over a month ago now probably has 40-50 flights on it from 3 different pilots all with 3 vastly different flying styles (myself, Major Croasdale and Justin Lamb). I had it set up per the book. Our field, as most can see, kind of caters to the issues that would have caused this kind of failure more often than not as we are always diving down into our fishbowl and pulling up and out. We also have numerous flights where we were just hanging on the elevators in a high alpha stall from Alex to get that cool footage in the air. I almost wish the problem arose during one of these a couple of weeks ago and maybe we could have had the servos going out earlier with the initial shipments. But it never did. Heck, I had 3 original F-18's flying prior to the elevator issue that arose then and again, never have experienced that issue.

All that said though, the American who had his crash was at his field flying 4 hours from receiving the aircraft, which is both awesome that we live in an age that we can be flying something brand new that fast, but also maybe that kind of hustle could lead to us overlooking things. But Andrew Williams posted a successful maiden and Pilot Ryan and they received theirs no sooner than anyone else and obviously were excited and hustled as well but they had successful maidens as they were set up by the book. So, many probably would never have experienced this issue, like I didn't.

All in all, I hope most are happy that we found a rare potential issue and are doing the diligence to make sure it gets resolved before it got worse. Better safe than sorry.

As soon as I get my batch of servos I will make a quick video showing the install, but they are exactly the same size as the ones already there. So it will just be me unhooking a control rod, unscrewing the servos, and dropping the new ones in after running the lead. Piece of cake for a piece of mind.

[Eolithic]

Hey guys, someone a page or two back mentioned a potential problem with the canopy latch - they said it wasn't very secure.

Here's a closeup picture of mine. (the "L10" was apparently marked by the QC/QA people at Freewing)

There is a short metal pin that goes into the foam, and you can see the hole and there is a hard plastic "strike plate" piece right below the hole so the pin can't rip through the foam. This plastic piece is not beveled. Also, there is plastic strip (not in the picture) that is used as a "pull strap" (you can fold it under if you don't want to use it, that is where it was in this photo) and if the strap is up, that provides something additional for the pin to latch onto.

There are some magnets on the midway-part of the hatch to help hold it closed. I think I may add a few extra ones.

This is the same thing with the one I received. The hole seems as if it should have been placed into the plastic piece but they missed it and the little pin just goes into the foam which is not going to hold it. I have a few alignment issues with the stabs on mine as well as some imperfections I'm guessing from maybe the molding process? I will post some photos.

[RCPLANEFANATIC]

So just for clarification, James and Alpha- will the jet be ok to fly this weekend in its stock form as long as it is all set up by the book?

[Eolithic]

Just wondering if anyone else had the same issues. You can see from one of the photos the alignment issue and the other 2 photos the finish is goofed up in almost the same spot like it is from the mold or process being used to make the part or something. I know it is cosmetic but when you pay $600+ for this you'd hope things like this wouldn't exist.

[xviper]

So just for clarification, James and Alpha- will the jet be ok to fly this weekend in its stock form as long as it is all set up by the book?

Motion just issued a statement "to NOT fly this plane till the new servos are installed". If they tell you it's OK to fly it before that, they would be contradicting what they've already made as a public statement. To tell you to go ahead and fly it would be a legal nightmare should something happen, in which case, Motion would be responsible for a crash that they cannot prove wasn't the product's fault. James and Alpha would be plain stupid to make such a contradictory statement. They don't appear to be stupid to me.

[Evan D]

This is how they do it on all their planes, both FreeWing and FlightLine. It's okay to leave it as is....


The exhausts are mold marks. If you get picky you can sand them down along with the injection dots all over the surface and repaint the plane. I have a feeling you won't...



I see some new people on here, welcome!

This is the same thing with the one I received. The hole seems as if it should have been placed into the plastic piece but they missed it and the little pin just goes into the foam which is not going to hold it. I have a few alignment issues with the stabs on mine as well as some imperfections I'm guessing from maybe the molding process? I will post some photos.

[Eolithic]

This is how they do it on all their planes, both FreeWing and FlightLine. It's okay to leave it as is....


The exhausts are mold marks. If you get picky you can sand them down along with the injection dots all over the surface and repaint the plane. I have a feeling you won't...



I see some new people on here, welcome!

Evan,

Thanks for verifying that. I figured it was probably from the mold process but I wanted to be sure. The injection dots all over, yes I am aware of and I do not bother with any of this. I may or may not cover the exhaust marks I am not sure.

[James]

So just for clarification, James and Alpha- will the jet be ok to fly this weekend in its stock form as long as it is all set up by the book?

Knowing you have beefier servos coming for free, what's the rush? You should wait.

Again, a majority may never have experienced this issue, but since some would, everyone should sit on the taxiway until they have their fix.

[Eolithic]

So just for clarification, James and Alpha- will the jet be ok to fly this weekend in its stock form as long as it is all set up by the book?

Knowing you have beefier servos coming for free, what's the rush? You should wait.

Again, a majority may never have experienced this issue, but since some would, everyone should sit on the taxiway until they have their fix.

Just practice taxi maneuvers and you should be safe

[ColtPilot]

Fair points Evan. As we show in this video:

Regardless of the model, manufacturer etc. Everyone should always spend the time going over every inch of their model aircraft. RC aircraft exist in a toy niche unlike any other where once you leave the ground you are beholden to your pre-flight checks. Now obviously, somethings would be unknown to a customer, like it was to us, that placing the rod on the wrong servo hole could potentially end in a detrimental failure and that's hopefully why people buy from us. We have your back and will work diligently to fix these types of issues.

But that said, these models are 100% hand-assembled at the factory by 100's of people before they arrive at your door. So human error is always possible as far as a servo connection not fully seated etc. They should always be checked.

In regards to the MiG, this is why I love working for this company, because Freewing had spoken to the gentleman in Asia who videod his crash, and then the American who got his had the same issue, and both had the elevator arms on the outside hole so we hustled to correct it. 2 issues were enough to get our entire company in motion, wear a little egg on our face and get it right because we would much prefer everyone to have success rather than failure.

That said, the MiG I received here over a month ago now probably has 40-50 flights on it from 3 different pilots all with 3 vastly different flying styles (myself, Major Croasdale and Justin Lamb). I had it set up per the book. Our field, as most can see, kind of caters to the issues that would have caused this kind of failure more often than not as we are always diving down into our fishbowl and pulling up and out. We also have numerous flights where we were just hanging on the elevators in a high alpha stall from Alex to get that cool footage in the air. I almost wish the problem arose during one of these a couple of weeks ago and maybe we could have had the servos going out earlier with the initial shipments. But it never did. Heck, I had 3 original F-18's flying prior to the elevator issue that arose then and again, never have experienced that issue.

All that said though, the American who had his crash was at his field flying 4 hours from receiving the aircraft, which is both awesome that we live in an age that we can be flying something brand new that fast, but also maybe that kind of hustle could lead to us overlooking things. But Andrew Williams posted a successful maiden and Pilot Ryan and they received theirs no sooner than anyone else and obviously were excited and hustled as well but they had successful maidens as they were set up by the book. So, many probably would never have experienced this issue, like I didn't.

All in all, I hope most are happy that we found a rare potential issue and are doing the diligence to make sure it gets resolved before it got worse. Better safe than sorry.

As soon as I get my batch of servos I will make a quick video showing the install, but they are exactly the same size as the ones already there. So it will just be me unhooking a control rod, unscrewing the servos, and dropping the new ones in after running the lead. Piece of cake for a piece of mind.

I truly appreciated Alpha calling me last night and had a great conversation about the MIG-29. James we are on the same page. Working on Navy jet aircraft, anything outside of the maintenance instruction manual could lead to disaster. Due diligence on the part of Motion is great. I'll wait for the servos and gooniacs firey booty to assemble. Enjoy your day. To many people think it's just a recommendation in the manual and do their own thing. Which in my knowledge base would negate warranty. Safe flying my friend.

[Evan D]

Here is where my batteries go to balance on the molded marks with gear down. Smaller batteries are 620-640g 5200. Larger are 760g 58-6200. Also a pic without the batteries and just sitting on the table.


I just watch Ryans maiden. If you watched it he has 5500 RT's. By the RT site there are two versions, a 70C the weighs 825g and a 45C that weighs 800g. He said his was balanced nose heavy on the marks and it had to be very nose heavy even with the light 800g packs where he has them. Look at my first picture. They are in the same spot as his and mine, in the picture are 630 and 640g, 330g lighter! The rear battery really isn't a big effect on balance but that front one is very critical so at least 150g or so off. He had to be quite nose heavy. I am surprised he only needed 8 clicks on up trim.

He also had his high rates lower than the book rates, he said that he used the book 80% low as his highs.

Good info.

[Alpha]

James' post above is a great one, and worth reading a couple times, in addition to reading my post from yesterday again as well. Context is everything, friends.


To answer some questions:

1) I am not sure what other Freewing distributors are doing. I haven't heard anyone else sending servos out for free like we are. James said it perfectly : "Piece of cake for peace of mind." Each of you are important to us, and if doing a major effort like this helps to prevent even one crash, we deem the effort worth it. That's the mindset with which we test, and fly, and test, and fly again. That's the mindset which drives continual improvement at every stage, before, during, and after a model's entrance onto the public stage.


2) Here is a photo of the Upgrade Set the MiG will be receiving. Notice that the servo wires are short, exactly like the MiG-29's stock servo, because the wire extension is in the fuselage. This makes it even easier for you to install the servo because you're not having to fish out the wire from inside the fuselage... I can swap a servo in less than 30 seconds that boosts the torque by 30% to give plenty of additional headroom.

Piece of cake for peace of mind.



3) I'm aware of at least 60 pilots flying their MiGs and 2 crashes under review. Stats aside, our position is exactly as stated on the Bulletin we sent. It's worth the week's wait to spend a couple minutes to effect the free Upgrade. Piece of cake for peace of mind.

In the meantime, triple check battery placement, battery balance, and radio settings. The leading killer of maiden crashes is reversed ailerons, which we can't prevent from here.

4) I've spoken with a few dozen of you on the phone over the past 18 hours. Thanks to all of you for your patience, understanding, continued support, and clear mindedness. It's easy for a company to look good when things are perfect, just as it's easy for a customer to be happy when everything is perfect. By contrast, how a company acts in less-ideal situations, and how a customer trusts that company to lead them through it, is a far better indicator of the health of our mutual relationship of trust and transparency. I'm grateful for your seeing this effort for what it is.

Piece of cake for (additional) peace of mind.

[Evan D]

Thank you Alpha and thank you Motion.

[JLambCWU]

I just watch Ryans maiden. If you watched it he has 5500 RT's. By the RT site there are two versions, a 70C the weighs 825g and a 45C that weighs 800g. He said his was balanced nose heavy on the marks and it had to be very nose heavy even with the light 800g packs where he has them. Look at my first picture. They are in the same spot as his and mine, in the picture are 630 and 640g, 330g lighter! The rear battery really isn't a big effect on balance but that front one is very critical so at least 150g or so off. He had to be quite nose heavy. I am surprised he only needed 8 clicks on up trim.

He also had his high rates lower than the book rates, he said that he used the book 80% low as his highs.

Good info.

If you’re going to slow flight the jet, your probably better off with the CG a bit further forward until you’re comfortable with how the jet enters and recovers from it.

I too noticed as you, and primarily fly 5500mah RT 70Cs