What happened to the grass ops video, is there one, or did I miss it?
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Official Freewing MiG-29 Fulcrum Twin 80mm Thread
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Originally posted by Jdcrow View PostHow about we discuss Pros/Cons of battery selections for this bird.
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some table updates and additional batteries added.
I know it doesnt include all. I just drafted it around the most common I use, have used, consider using.
Comps by Weight (low to high)Weight Comparison Under 1350gr/3 lbs Design Reference Packs 1400gr/3lbs - 1562gr/3.44lbs Over 1600gr/3.5lbs Brand Cells 1 Capacity C-Rating Weight Gr Weight Oz Dual Pack Wt oz Dual Pack Wt lbs Price 2 Pack Price Comment Pros/Cons RCJetWerx 6s 4000 50 545 19.22 1090 2.40 79 158 Lightest Pair and 50c/100c burst. Low Cost for pair Admiral 6s 4000 40 578 20.39 1156 2.55 80 155 Spektrum 6s Smart 4000 50 580 20.46 1160 2.56 99 198 Close C compared to design reference pack. 10% lighter than dual reference packs Admiral 6s 4500 40 640 22.58 1280 2.82 90 178 nearly same weight as design reference pack. Good c at 40c/80c Burst. 500 more mAh than reference packs Admiral 6s Pro 4000 60 642 22.65 1284 2.83 95 190 Mig 29 Designed around this pack Spektrum 6s Smart 5000 50 660 23.28 1320 2.91 125 250 Lightest pair of the 5000mAh packs. Good C at 50c/100c Burst. Hight end of cost of the 5000mAh options RoaringTop 6s 4500 45 666 23.49 1332 2.94 80 160 Spektrum 6s Smart 5000 100 670 23.63 1340 2.95 160 320 Highest C rating at 100/200c burst, but at cost for pair at $320 RoaringTop 6s 5000 35 711 25.08 1422 3.13 75 150 Lowest Cost for 2 and 5000mAh. Low end of C rating at 35c/70c burst Admiral 6s 5000 50 732 25.82 1464 3.23 109 208 RoaringTop 6s 5000 45 755 26.63 1510 3.33 90 180 RoaringTop 6s 5800 35 780 27.51 1560 3.44 90 180 RoaringTop 6s 5000 70 781 27.55 1562 3.44 117 234 Heaviest of the 5000mAh packs RoaringTop 6s 5500 45 800 28.22 1600 3.53 95 190 RoaringTop 6s 6250 35 803 28.32 1606 3.54 92 184 RCJetWerx 6s 6000 60 820 28.93 1640 3.62 125 250 RoaringTop 6s 5500 70 825 29.10 1650 3.64 120 240 Admiral 6s Pro 6000 50 844 29.77 1688 3.72 124 237 1 of top three heaviest over 3-2/3 lbs Admiral 6s Carbon 5100 70 866 30.55 1732 3.82 119 229 1 of top three heaviest over 3-2/3 lbs RoaringTop 6s 5100 80 880 31.04 1760 3.88 145 290 2nd highest cost at $290. Heaviest pair nearly at nearly 4 lbs
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Cost by Cost Comparison (US$)
Cost Comparison Under $200/Pr Design Reference Packs $200-$300 Over $300 Brand Cells Descriptor Capacity C-Rating Weight Gr Weight Oz Dual Pack Wt oz Dual Pack Wt lbs Price 2 Pack Price Comment Pros/Cons RoaringTop 6s 5000 35 711 25.08 1422 3.13 75 150 Lowest Cost for 2 and 5000mAh. Low end of C rating at 35c/70c burst Admiral 6s 4000 40 578 20.39 1156 2.55 80 155 RCJetWerx 6s 4000 50 545 19.22 1090 2.40 79 158 Lightest Pair and 50c/100c burst. Low Cost for pair RoaringTop 6s 4500 45 666 23.49 1332 2.94 80 160 Admiral 6s 4500 40 640 22.58 1280 2.82 90 178 nearly same weight as design reference pack. Good c at 40c/80c Burst. 500 more mAh than reference packs RoaringTop 6s 5000 45 755 26.63 1510 3.33 90 180 RoaringTop 6s 5800 35 780 27.51 1560 3.44 90 180 RoaringTop 6s 6250 35 803 28.32 1606 3.54 92 184 Admiral 6s Pro 4000 60 642 22.65 1284 2.83 95 190 Mig 29 Designed around this pack RoaringTop 6s 5500 45 800 28.22 1600 3.53 95 190 Spektrum 6s Smart 4000 50 580 20.46 1160 2.56 99 198 Close C compared to design reference pack. 10% lighter than dual reference packs Admiral 6s 5000 50 732 25.82 1464 3.23 109 208 Admiral 6s Carbon 5100 70 866 30.55 1732 3.82 119 229 1 of top three heaviest over 3-2/3 lbs RoaringTop 6s 5000 70 781 27.55 1562 3.44 117 234 Heaviest of the 5000mAh packs Admiral 6s Pro 6000 50 844 29.77 1688 3.72 124 237 1 of top three heaviest over 3-2/3 lbs RoaringTop 6s 5500 70 825 29.10 1650 3.64 120 240 Spektrum 6s Smart 5000 50 660 23.28 1320 2.91 125 250 Lightest pair of the 5000mAh packs. Good C at 50c/100c Burst. Hight end of cost of the 5000mAh options RCJetWerx 6s 6000 60 820 28.93 1640 3.62 125 250 RoaringTop 6s 5100 80 880 31.04 1760 3.88 145 290 2nd highest cost at $290. Heaviest pair nearly at nearly 4 lbs Spektrum 6s Smart 5000 100 670 23.63 1340 2.95 160 320 Highest C rating at 100/200c burst, but at cost for pair at $320
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Comps by Capacity (low to high)Capacity (mAh) Comparison Under 5000 mAh Design Reference Packs 5100 - 5900 mAh Over 6000 mAh Brand Cells Descriptor Capacity C-Rating Weight Gr Weight Oz Dual Pack Wt oz Dual Pack Wt lbs Price 2 Pack Price Comment Pros/Cons Admiral 6s 4000 40 578 20.39 1156 2.55 80 155 RCJetWerx 6s 4000 50 545 19.22 1090 2.40 79 158 Lightest Pair and 50c/100c burst. Low Cost for pair Admiral 6s Pro 4000 60 642 22.65 1284 2.83 95 190 Mig 29 Designed around this pack Spektrum 6s Smart 4000 50 580 20.46 1160 2.56 99 198 Close C compared to design reference pack. 10% lighter than dual reference packs RoaringTop 6s 4500 45 666 23.49 1332 2.94 80 160 Admiral 6s 4500 40 640 22.58 1280 2.82 90 178 nearly same weight as design reference pack. Good c at 40c/80c Burst. 500 more mAh than reference packs RoaringTop 6s 5000 35 711 25.08 1422 3.13 75 150 Lowest Cost for 2 and 5000mAh. Low end of C rating at 35c/70c burst RoaringTop 6s 5000 45 755 26.63 1510 3.33 90 180 Admiral 6s 5000 50 732 25.82 1464 3.23 109 208 RoaringTop 6s 5000 70 781 27.55 1562 3.44 117 234 Heaviest of the 5000mAh packs Spektrum 6s Smart 5000 50 660 23.28 1320 2.91 125 250 Lightest pair of the 5000mAh packs. Good C at 50c/100c Burst. Hight end of cost of the 5000mAh options Spektrum 6s Smart 5000 100 670 23.63 1340 2.95 160 320 Highest C rating at 100/200c burst, but at cost for pair at $320 Admiral 6s Carbon 5100 70 866 30.55 1732 3.82 119 229 1 of top three heaviest over 3-2/3 lbs RoaringTop 6s 5100 80 880 31.04 1760 3.88 145 290 2nd highest cost at $290. Heaviest pair nearly at nearly 4 lbs RoaringTop 6s 5500 45 800 28.22 1600 3.53 95 190 RoaringTop 6s 5500 70 825 29.10 1650 3.64 120 240 RoaringTop 6s 5800 35 780 27.51 1560 3.44 90 180 Admiral 6s Pro 6000 50 844 29.77 1688 3.72 124 237 1 of top three heaviest over 3-2/3 lbs RCJetWerx 6s 6000 60 820 28.93 1640 3.62 125 250 RoaringTop 6s 6250 35 803 28.32 1606 3.54 92 184
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and Comps by C Rating, Low to highC Rating Comparison Under 40c/90c Burst Design Reference Packs 45c/90c Burst - 50c/100cBurst Over 50c/100c Burst Brand Cells Descriptor Capacity C-Rating Weight Gr Weight Oz Dual Pack Wt oz Dual Pack Wt lbs Price 2 Pack Price Comment Pros/Cons RoaringTop 6s 5000 35 711 25.08 1422 3.13 75 150 Lowest Cost for 2 and 5000mAh. Low end of C rating at 35c/70c burst RoaringTop 6s 5800 35 780 27.51 1560 3.44 90 180 RoaringTop 6s 6250 35 803 28.32 1606 3.54 92 184 Admiral 6s 4000 40 578 20.39 1156 2.55 80 155 Admiral 6s 4500 40 640 22.58 1280 2.82 90 178 nearly same weight as design reference pack. Good c at 40c/80c Burst. 500 more mAh than reference packs RoaringTop 6s 4500 45 666 23.49 1332 2.94 80 160 RoaringTop 6s 5000 45 755 26.63 1510 3.33 90 180 RoaringTop 6s 5500 45 800 28.22 1600 3.53 95 190 RCJetWerx 6s 4000 50 545 19.22 1090 2.40 79 158 Lightest Pair and 50c/100c burst. Low Cost for pair Spektrum 6s Smart 4000 50 580 20.46 1160 2.56 99 198 Close C compared to design reference pack. 10% lighter than dual reference packs Admiral 6s 5000 50 732 25.82 1464 3.23 109 208 Spektrum 6s Smart 5000 50 660 23.28 1320 2.91 125 250 Lightest pair of the 5000mAh packs. Good C at 50c/100c Burst. Hight end of cost of the 5000mAh options Admiral 6s Pro 6000 50 844 29.77 1688 3.72 124 237 1 of top three heaviest over 3-2/3 lbs Admiral 6s Pro 4000 60 642 22.65 1284 2.83 95 190 Mig 29 Designed around this pack RCJetWerx 6s 6000 60 820 28.93 1640 3.62 125 250 RoaringTop 6s 5000 70 781 27.55 1562 3.44 117 234 Heaviest of the 5000mAh packs Admiral 6s Carbon 5100 70 866 30.55 1732 3.82 119 229 1 of top three heaviest over 3-2/3 lbs RoaringTop 6s 5500 70 825 29.10 1650 3.64 120 240 RoaringTop 6s 5100 80 880 31.04 1760 3.88 145 290 2nd highest cost at $290. Heaviest pair nearly at nearly 4 lbs Spektrum 6s Smart 5000 100 670 23.63 1340 2.95 160 320 Highest C rating at 100/200c burst, but at cost for pair at $320
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What i dont have is a good chart of IR ratings. The Spektrum Low IR really surprised me on their packs i have. A lot of RoaringTops are used at my club, but most ive seen have some puff to them. Although i havent used them, the puff would shy me away from the lower C versions.
I haven't had puff issues with either the Admirals (regular and pro) ive owned. In fact, my 4s 2200 Pro has well over 230 cycles on it and i fly my eFlite P-39 hard with it. I have also had no such issues from the RCJetWerx 4000's i own.
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I'd be inclined to overlay considerations with the thorough testing that is completed on the other forum.
The spektrum packs are light because you cant cheat the chemistry - the 100C pack tests at 30C, which is adequate, but makes a mockery of HH's pricing, when the HRB 50C pack performs the same for half the price. There's a reason the only people using the smart packs are youtube influencers who get them for free lol. If your pack weighs less than 800g, it's probably going to be disappointing. It's shocking how many batteries dont even make the 35C testing list because they cant sustain the load.
Stonking big C ratings are not critical for this jet like they are for a 90mm, but presumably people will use their batteries in other jets, so be wise with your money :)
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Originally posted by mshagg View PostI'd be inclined to overlay considerations with the thorough testing that is completed on the other forum.
The spektrum packs are light because you cant cheat the chemistry - the 100C pack tests at 30C, which is adequate, but makes a mockery of HH's pricing, when the HRB 50C pack performs the same for half the price. There's a reason the only people using the smart packs are youtube influencers who get them for free lol. If your pack weighs less than 800g, it's probably going to be disappointing.
Stonking big C ratings are not critical for this jet like they are for a 90mm, but presumably people will use their batteries in other jets!
when we were rc drag racing, we would kill batteries getting them to perform at low IR. 3c Charge rates and Discharging at 40Amps to get the burst performance we needed for a 2 second race pass.
Many pilots in my circle love the HRB cells they have. I have no objection to them. Just have had good results from Admirals, RCJetWerx, and the 1 Spektrum Smart Pack 4000 i own. Almost exclusively in EDF's
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Originally posted by Jdcrow View Post
i pay more attention to IR than anything when i can. If the power can flow cleanly, and sufficiently, the C bragging doesnt matter
Admirals, roaring top, RCjetwerx are all unavailable in my country which is a shame given they are so popular in the EDF community. Thankfully HRB and CHNL have warehouses here and sell direct to market.
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Originally posted by mshagg View Post
A good indicator of lifespan in my experience as well - if they start low they stay low for a longer time!
Admirals, roaring top, RCjetwerx are all unavailable in my country which is a shame given they are so popular in the EDF community. Thankfully HRB and CHNL have warehouses here and sell direct to market.
I've flown HRB 60Cs and the CNHL 65C and 40C Blacks and they're not as good by a fair margin, which I is also indicated by the testing on the other forum. HRB IRs are lower than CNHL in my experience. The 65C are okay, but the 40C are terrible. They are lighter though at 758 - 743 grams respectively.
I have a pair of the Liperior 75C's which are heavy at 856 grams, but also seem to perform well with very low IRs - mine total 5 and 6 for all six cells (1 ohm avg). They were about $122/pair. I read they were working on shipping to Australia.
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Originally posted by Jdcrow View PostWhat i dont have is a good chart of IR ratings. The Spektrum Low IR really surprised me on their packs i have. A lot of RoaringTops are used at my club, but most ive seen have some puff to them. Although i havent used them, the puff would shy me away from the lower C versions.
I haven't had puff issues with either the Admirals (regular and pro) ive owned. In fact, my 4s 2200 Pro has well over 230 cycles on it and i fly my eFlite P-39 hard with it. I have also had no such issues from the RCJetWerx 4000's i own.
I did find that Admirals were a bit behind on IR to Roaring Top and HRB, but also know they are in the process of upgrading their Lipo's (probably why they are out of stock of most of them) and expect great things from them in the near future. MRC, as far as I'm concerned, is the most responsible shop and they always strive to serve us the absolute best they can. In summary on IR (listing total IR range of at least 10 batteries of each type, although I also have the IR numbers for each individual cell) are as follows, from lowest IR to highest. I also have the actual C the meter gives, but not listing it, suffice it to say it's anywhere from 40% to 60% of advertised C, with it being closer to tested C at lower rated batteries and further from the truth on higher C advertised batteries:
RT 5500mah 6S 70C Total IR: 17.8 to 19.4
HRB 6000mah 6S 50C Total IR: 17.8 to 19.5
HobbyStar 8000mah 6S 100C Total IR: 20.4 to 21.8 (this one surprised me, weight is only 908 g, and forget the 100C but only slightly lower actual C than RT or HRB but at $179 per battery it better fix me a filet every night and tuck me in)
RT 6250mah 6S 35C Total IR: 24.1 to 25.9
Admiral 6000mah 6S 50C Pro Total IR: 25.5 to 27.6
Admiral 5000mah 6S 50C Total IR: 28.5 to 30.5
Admiral 4000mah 6S 40C Total IR: 31.2 to 36.3
Admiral 3300mah 6S 30C Total IR: 40.9 to 43.3
As you can guess, the table also goes from highest tested C to lowest tested C, despite what the advertised C is. I also found something interesting in testing with the power meter. The inrunners I have perform much better the higher the actual C, where the outrunners still do better, but not significantly. I have no idea why, maybe a coincidence, but I'm able to use a lower C battery with higher mah in the outrunners with no apparent loss in take-off thrust (which is the only time I really need the punch to get off of grass).Hugh "Wildman" Wiedman
Hangar: FL/FW: Mig 29 "Cobra", A-10 Arctic, F18 Canadian & Tiger Meet, F16 Wild Weasel, F4 Phantom & Blue Angel, 1600 Corsair & Spitfire, Olive B-24, Stinger 90, Red Avanti. Extreme Flight-FW-190 Red Tulip, Slick 60, 60" Extra 300 V2, 62" MXS Heavy Metal, MXS Green, & Demonstrator. FMS-1700mm P-51, Red Bull Corsair. E-Flite-70mm twin SU-30, Beast Bi-Plane 60", P2 Bi-Plane, P-51.
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Originally posted by crxmanpat View PostOne correction on your entries for the RT 5800 35C. Pack cost is $86, so $172 for a pair. You have $180.
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ok...one last Venn Diagram style brain twister.
+/- Range of Design Reference Pack Weight
% of Design Pack Weight Within +/- 10% Design Reference Packs Range +/- 10% to +/- 20% Over +/- 20% Brand Cells Descriptor Capacity C-Rating Weight Gr Weight Oz Dual Pack Wt oz Dual Pack Wt lbs Price 2 Pack Price Comment Pros/Cons Comment Pros/Cons RCJetWerx 6s 4000 50 545 19.22 1090 2.40 79 158 Lightest Pair and 50c/100c burst. Low Cost for pair 84.81% Admiral 6s 4000 40 578 20.39 1156 2.55 80 155 90.11% Spektrum 6s Smart 4000 50 580 20.46 1160 2.56 99 198 Close C compared to design reference pack. 10% lighter than dual reference packs 90.46% Admiral 6s 4500 40 640 22.58 1280 2.82 90 178 nearly same weight as design reference pack. Good c at 40c/80c Burst. 500 more mAh than reference packs 99.65% Admiral 6s Pro 4000 60 642 22.65 1284 2.83 95 190 Mig 29 Designed around this pack 100.00% RoaringTop 6s 4500 45 666 23.49 1332 2.94 80 160 103.89% Spektrum 6s Smart 5000 100 670 23.63 1340 2.95 160 320 Highest C rating at 100/200c burst, but at cost for pair at $320 104.24% RoaringTop 6s 5000 35 711 25.08 1422 3.13 75 150 Lowest Cost for 2 and 5000mAh. Low end of C rating at 35c/70c burst 110.60% Admiral 6s 5000 50 732 25.82 1464 3.23 109 208 114.13% RoaringTop 6s 5000 45 755 26.63 1510 3.33 90 180 117.67% RoaringTop 6s 5800 35 780 27.51 1560 3.44 90 180 121.55% RoaringTop 6s 5000 70 781 27.55 1562 3.44 117 234 Heaviest of the 5000mAh packs 121.63% RoaringTop 6s 5500 45 800 28.22 1600 3.53 95 190 124.73% RoaringTop 6s 6250 35 803 28.32 1606 3.54 92 184 125.09% RCJetWerx 6s 6000 60 820 28.93 1640 3.62 125 250 127.92% RoaringTop 6s 5500 70 825 29.10 1650 3.64 120 240 128.62% Spektrum 6s Smart 5000 50 660 23.28 1320 2.91 125 250 Lightest pair of the 5000mAh packs. Good C at 50c/100c Burst. Hight end of cost of the 5000mAh options 131.45% Admiral 6s Pro 6000 50 844 29.77 1688 3.72 124 237 1 of top three heaviest over 3-2/3 lbs 131.45% Admiral 6s Carbon 5100 70 866 30.55 1732 3.82 119 229 1 of top three heaviest over 3-2/3 lbs 134.98% RoaringTop 6s 5100 80 880 31.04 1760 3.88 145 290 2nd highest cost at $290. Heaviest pair nearly at nearly 4 lbs 137.10%
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Originally posted by Jdcrow View Post
i took the data and pricing straight from Andy's website. I think there was a price change on the most recent arrivals.
www.rcjetwerx.com
https://rcjetwerx.com/product/rt-6s-5800-35c/Pat
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