You must Sign-in or Register to post messages in the Hobby Squawk community
Registration is FREE and only takes a few moments

Register now

Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Official Freewing MiG-29 Fulcrum Twin 80mm Thread

Collapse
X
Collapse
First Prev Next Last
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • I agree. I do wonder how much ahead of the marks it was balanced with his batteries there, I have to think at least 1to 2cm. Plus he had his MCBe, receiver and a lot of wires up forward that I moved back.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Alpha View Post
      James' post above is a great one, and worth reading a couple times, in addition to reading my post from yesterday again as well. Context is everything, friends.


      To answer some questions:

      1) I am not sure what other Freewing distributors are doing. I haven't heard anyone else sending servos out for free like we are. James said it perfectly : "Piece of cake for peace of mind." Each of you are important to us, and if doing a major effort like this helps to prevent even one crash, we deem the effort worth it. That's the mindset with which we test, and fly, and test, and fly again. That's the mindset which drives continual improvement at every stage, before, during, and after a model's entrance onto the public stage.


      2) Here is a photo of the Upgrade Set the MiG will be receiving. Notice that the servo wires are short, exactly like the MiG-29's stock servo, because the wire extension is in the fuselage. This makes it even easier for you to install the servo because you're not having to fish out the wire from inside the fuselage... I can swap a servo in less than 30 seconds that boosts the torque by 30% to give plenty of additional headroom.

      Piece of cake for peace of mind.

      Click image for larger version

Name:	SAVE_20200912_060531.jpg
Views:	1573
Size:	32.7 KB
ID:	274066

      3) I'm aware of at least 60 pilots flying their MiGs and 2 crashes under review. Stats aside, our position is exactly as stated on the Bulletin we sent. It's worth the week's wait to spend a couple minutes to effect the free Upgrade. Piece of cake for peace of mind.

      In the meantime, triple check battery placement, battery balance, and radio settings. The leading killer of maiden crashes is reversed ailerons, which we can't prevent from here.

      4) I've spoken with a few dozen of you on the phone over the past 18 hours. Thanks to all of you for your patience, understanding, continued support, and clear mindedness. It's easy for a company to look good when things are perfect, just as it's easy for a customer to be happy when everything is perfect. By contrast, how a company acts in less-ideal situations, and how a customer trusts that company to lead them through it, is a far better indicator of the health of our mutual relationship of trust and transparency. I'm grateful for your seeing this effort for what it is.

      Piece of cake for (additional) peace of mind.





      Thanks for the talk last night. I'll be ready and waiting for the servos. Never had a phone call from any other company. KISS method and follow the instructions.

      Regards
      Tim Toutant.

      Comment


      • Alpha and James- I will hold short on the taxiway until servos get here. Planning on several hours of preflight checks. Thanks for your advice!

        Comment


        • James and Alpha ....................... diplomatic and reasonable as expected.

          Comment


          • Alpha, going by FW's conventional color coding shouldn't one servo be a reverse for elevators? Are we getting another Y for a reason?


            As I said I moved my pushrod on the elevator servos into the inner hole (and increased my ATVs to 120-125 to get proper throws) and also rotated the horn one spline forward for better geometry. I plan on a maiden tomorrow.


            Thank you again.


            Edit, wouldn't it be good to add the notice info to the product page and to pg 1 of this thread?


            Originally posted by Alpha View Post
            James' post above is a great one, and worth reading a couple times, in addition to reading my post from yesterday again as well. Context is everything, friends.


            To answer some questions:

            1) I am not sure what other Freewing distributors are doing. I haven't heard anyone else sending servos out for free like we are. James said it perfectly : "Piece of cake for peace of mind." Each of you are important to us, and if doing a major effort like this helps to prevent even one crash, we deem the effort worth it. That's the mindset with which we test, and fly, and test, and fly again. That's the mindset which drives continual improvement at every stage, before, during, and after a model's entrance onto the public stage.


            2) Here is a photo of the Upgrade Set the MiG will be receiving. Notice that the servo wires are short, exactly like the MiG-29's stock servo, because the wire extension is in the fuselage. This makes it even easier for you to install the servo because you're not having to fish out the wire from inside the fuselage... I can swap a servo in less than 30 seconds that boosts the torque by 30% to give plenty of additional headroom.

            Piece of cake for peace of mind.

            Click image for larger version  Name:	SAVE_20200912_060531.jpg Views:	30 Size:	32.7 KB ID:	274066

            3) I'm aware of at least 60 pilots flying their MiGs and 2 crashes under review. Stats aside, our position is exactly as stated on the Bulletin we sent. It's worth the week's wait to spend a couple minutes to effect the free Upgrade. Piece of cake for peace of mind.

            In the meantime, triple check battery placement, battery balance, and radio settings. The leading killer of maiden crashes is reversed ailerons, which we can't prevent from here.

            4) I've spoken with a few dozen of you on the phone over the past 18 hours. Thanks to all of you for your patience, understanding, continued support, and clear mindedness. It's easy for a company to look good when things are perfect, just as it's easy for a customer to be happy when everything is perfect. By contrast, how a company acts in less-ideal situations, and how a customer trusts that company to lead them through it, is a far better indicator of the health of our mutual relationship of trust and transparency. I'm grateful for your seeing this effort for what it is.

            Piece of cake for (additional) peace of mind.





            Comment


            • Well it looks like 3 more MiG-29s bit the dust in Taiwan

              3 CRASHES - maiden freewing Mig 29 PNP version in Taiwan
              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNALRsoyKaU


              I'll bet none of those pilots read the manual!
              Best regards,
              Cris B.
              AMA#L945841, NASA#2845, JPO#2503,
              NSRCA#4603, IMAC#7357

              Comment


              • The way Motion RC (and Freewing) are handling matters are as classy as I could ever hope it could be. Their quick and intelligent responses, expeditious decisions, general care/concern for their customers and their products, and taking time to actually speak personally with customers is mind boggling awesome to have and see in the RC community. Any company doing this gets a A+ in my book, and it's one of the reasons I continue buying products from them. I can't think of any other RC company doing the same, and certainly not to that level.

                While people wait for servos, the time can be spent pre-flighting the aircraft. Just like in full-scale aviation, that time can be spent wisely to ensure everything is 100% ready before sending an aircraft airborne.

                Comment


                • T-CAT I couldn't have said it better! +1
                  Best regards,
                  Cris B.
                  AMA#L945841, NASA#2845, JPO#2503,
                  NSRCA#4603, IMAC#7357

                  Comment


                  • I ALWAYS set up my planes by the book for maiden. If there's a change I want to make, so be it, but there's a reason I always recommend starting with settings by the book.

                    ... just so happens the setup as called out in the manual has my MiG flying exactly how I'd want. So I'm continuing to fly mine. When the new servos come in, great :)

                    ADDED AFTER CATCHING UP IN THIS THREAD:
                    I'm very impressed with how Motion is handling this. That's a lot of work and headache to get through because of two crashes.

                    Comment


                    • So for clarity as a clear answer seems not to have been forthcoming so far, will Motionrc.eu upgrade the Mig 29 elevator servos on the yet to be delivered Mig-29's ordered through Motionrc.eu in Europe.


                      Edit: After contacting Motionrc.eu I have been told the upgraded 24g servo's are to be supplied in the box for EU customers and future Mig's will come with them standard. They actually replied in about 15 min's on a Sat night which was not expected.

                      Comment


                      • This is the first aircraft I have purchased rom Motion RC. I was drinking coffee and reading the MiG-29 forum when I received a phone call from Alpha to talk about my recent MiG purchase. Impressive! It can take weeks to get a reply from tech support at other hobby retailers. Who would ever expect an unsolicited call from the designer himself to Chat about my purchase and offer tips on a successful maiden? It’s obvious that Alpha cares about customers having a rewarding experience with their product. With this level of attention, I’ll be spending my dough on more toys from Motion in the near future. Alpha, thanks for 45 minutes of your precious time on the phone at 3am in the morning! It was sincerely appreciated. Now Get Some SLEEP man!😉

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Evan D View Post
                          On the other site there are many screaming the sky is falling (I'm saying this much nicer than they are) and many didn't and won't and where never going to buy the MiG.

                          I can see both sides of this but remember FreeWing manufactured these and Motion sells them. I think Motion is doing the right thing. Does anyone have any info about how other dealers/ distributors are handling this?

                          With the bulletin (they call it a notice and it's not a recall as one person called it) I decided to move my stab pushrods to the inner hole on the servo to get even better mechanical advantage on the servo. I also moved both servo arms forward one spline to get a nice right angle to the push rod. I also had to up my travel to between 120 and 125 to get 40mm full throw up and down.

                          This brings up a couple points I don't think anyone has mentioned.

                          First if you do not move the horn one spline you will get more down than up if you use the same numbers. I have both servos on separate channels to get tailerons and doing so made sub trim and throw adjustments easy.

                          Second, I found the servo horn screws were not very tight. I added a little white tube glue to the threads and tightened them well.

                          Third, I removed the ribbon cables and wing interconnections on mine and ran separate extensions. When I disconnected one of the servo wires from the back of the wing interconnection on one wing I found the connections had not been fully seated in the black servo wire plug. They looked like they were making good connection to the board though I never tested it.

                          Lastly, as on al my planes that have these wheel collar type rings to hold the stabs to a pivot rod I took a Dremel and cut a flat where the set screw tightens down and I used red loctite on the screw.

                          So, please check things when you put the plane together.
                          I found the servo horn screws were finger tight also and needed to be tightened.
                          The elevator shafts should have had 3 ground flat spots for the screws. I wiuld also put locktite on the screw that secures the collar.
                          Probably a fluke, but mine had a bad Y harness on the throttle channel.

                          Comment


                          • If anyone is interested, it took 4 $.25 and 1 $.01 to statically balance the horizontal stab.
                            Attached Files

                            Comment


                            • And also did the retract door mod. Instead of running an extension, you can simple remove the first signal wire next to the power wire in both ribbon cables. Add a signal only servo lead and connect all wires and plug into blue box.
                              Attached Files

                              Comment


                              • Just wanting to express my appreciation getting a call from Alpha making sure I saw the email regarding the MiG servos. Really shows the commitment to customer service and product support.

                                Comment


                                • I appriciat the level comitment that motion shows to the costumers. I want to thanks alpha for the personal call that I resive today to make sure I was aware of Service Bulletin.

                                  Comment


                                  • After reading the additional comments in this thread regarding the servos, i made the decision take a calculated risk and go ahead an do the maiden flight today BUT TAKE IT EVER SO EASY. This is not a suggestion that you follow suit. But...the weather was perfect, and I didn't want to wait.

                                    Congrats to the entire Freewing team and Alpha. This is as close to perfect harmony in a design as you can get IMHO. The team knocked it outa the ball park and then some.

                                    Today dawned calm, so an early maiden was planned....only to arrive at the football field's parking lot and find it full of cones and folks taking bus driving lessons. DOAH! The director assured me that they would be gone by 4 PM, and the wind forecast was still light and variable at that time. Return to the house...was plan B.

                                    Details
                                    =====
                                    • Running 2 6S Admiral Pro 6000 mAh packs
                                    • Set-ups by the book...had to adjust the dual rate down quite a bit to get the book throw measurements
                                      • 80% on the aileron and rudder and 70% on the elevator
                                    • No EXPO...It is not needed in my opinion.
                                    • Used the middle and aft battery bays with the aft end of the middle battery butting up against the blue control board
                                    • I read in this thread that one person set their MiG up with a little elevator/flap mixing...nose up when flaps are lowered, so I thought I'd try this, too.
                                      • Always disconcerting when you lower the flaps and the bird heads for mother earth...not a good feeling.
                                    • CG with gear down and missiles installed was spot on perfect, so i didn't mess with any battery re-positioning.
                                    • Mounted the receiver as far forward as I could get it and still have room for the twin antennae to go straight forward and also 90 degrees down the side (Futaba radio)
                                      • The receiver is the only thing in the forward battery bay.
                                    • I wasn't happy having to place the UBEC between the battery and canopy/hatch, so I spliced in some extra 2 conductor wire and tucked away the UBEC into the right wing root area.
                                    • I installed clip-on ferrite RF choke filters on every wire coming forward out of the ESCs...including adding another RF choke to the throttle wire (already has the green ferrite ring RF choke on it).
                                      • There is plenty of room on either side of the aft end of the aft battery area to install these RF choke filters...they sit on either/both sides of the aft end of the aft battery.
                                      • Since installing these RF chokes on all my HIGH CURRENT ESC birds, I have flown hundreds of flights w/o any radio glitch.
                                    The Maiden Flight
                                    ==============
                                    • 1/2 flap on take-off and full flap on landing / LOW RATE setting
                                    • The elevator needed 3 clicks of up trim as I turned down wind, and that was it. The take-off was straight and there was no roll that needed trimming out.
                                      • This means I ended up with about 3 or 4 mm of nose up elevator position vs the 1 mm called for in the book.
                                    • Noticed as soon as I raised the flaps that the nose dropped, so I put the flaps down as an experiment...and the nose rose a bit.
                                      • First thing I did after landing was to INACTIVATE the flap/elevator mix. This bird does not pitch up or down when the flaps are activated. How sweet it is!
                                    • Set the timer for 3 minutes and flew around at about 1/2 throttle and maybe a little less at times...keeping the speed down.
                                    • Turned downwind after a VERY enjoyable flight and did the following (as I do for the F-4)...
                                      • On downwind...reduce the throttle 5 clicks (starting from 1/2 throttle)
                                      • On base...reduce the throttle 4 more clicks. In effect, you end up with about 25% throttle by doing 9 clicks of reduction on my radio
                                    • Over the edge of the field at about 10 ft of height...reduced the throttle slowly to cut-off. She settled in on the mains just perfect...even wanting to float quite a bit before touchdown
                                    Battery Measurements
                                    =================
                                    • 3 minutes = 3.97 volts....and 1800mAh consumed. After a couple of these flights, I increased the time in increments to 4 min 30 sec
                                    • 4.5 minutes = 2500 mAh consumed and and a little over 3.9volts
                                      • I won't go longer because when my new servos arrive, I will be hot rodding this baby some on each flight
                                        • I keep a good reserve for two reasons:
                                          1. Not sucking down the LiPo is better on the LiPo...they live a lot longer
                                          2. The need for a go-around should always be in your mind...never know when a dog or a child or jogger is gonna be on the runway
                                    • Other than a full power take-off, I was flying at 1/2 throttle
                                    Impressions
                                    =========
                                    • This is the easiest handling EDF I have ever flown
                                      • Control harmony is first class!
                                    • Very little back stick is needed...even in steep turns (as opposed to the AL37)
                                    • Landings are a piece of cake. I made about 10 flights this evening and only bounced once. She touches down with the nose high on the mains with ease and grace!
                                    • Landing distance is similar to the F-4 and AL37 in these calm conditions. For those who fly off short strips, once the MiG is on the ground, "S" turns to bleed energy will get you stopped in a fairly short distance.
                                    • She has POWER TO SPARE....Wow, and then some. I can't wait for the new servos to arrive and then open her up. Vertical climbs go WAY WAY UP there.
                                    • She rolled straight right out of the box. This is one of the "quality" things Freewing pays attention to. Nothing is more bothersome than to have to spend the first minutes after arriving at the field adjusting the linkages of a new bird to get the new bird to roll straight. UGH.
                                    • I only went to high rate a couple of times to do some aileron rolls. She's a bit sluggish on low rate in the aileron roll department (compared to the F-4), but on high rate...the roll rate was VERY crisp.
                                    • You'll appreciate the length of cables coming from the ESC for connecting to the batteries. They are PLENTY long.
                                    • She SOUNDS incredible at full power and is VERY quiet at 1/2 throttle.
                                    • Battery consumption rate appears to be VERY efficient. But, I reserve further comment until I can mix in some acro and speed passes with 1/2 throttle cruising once the new servos arrive.
                                    Overall Score 10 outa 10 (or maybe even 15 outa 10). Nicely done Freewing Team!

                                    P.S. I won't fly again until the new servos arrive.

                                    -GG

                                    Comment


                                    • Originally posted by Lcacing View Post
                                      If anyone is interested, it took 4 $.25 and 1 $.01 to statically balance the horizontal stab.
                                      There you go, pouring more money into a PNP. (My F-14 took $.80 per stab )
                                      Pat

                                      Comment


                                      • Originally posted by Lcacing View Post
                                        And also did the retract door mod. Instead of running an extension, you can simple remove the first signal wire next to the power wire in both ribbon cables. Add a signal only servo lead and connect all wires and plug into blue box.
                                        That's awesome! Will definitely be doing mine this way.
                                        Pat

                                        Comment


                                        • I’d like to know what everyone used for flaps/elevator ratios in the transmitter setup and well as expo settings.

                                          Comment

                                          Working...
                                          X