P-38 - The Ultimate EPO Lightning

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Official Freewing MiG-29 Fulcrum Twin 80mm Thread

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    Originally posted by GliderGuy View Post
    PANCAKES AIN’T NO FUN!

    Someone mentioned earlier in the thread about getting into a falling leaf situation. BEEEE CAREFUL!!!!

    I was doing hammer head stall and didn’t get the nose around quick enough with the rudder. Next thing I knew....I was in the falling leaf situation.

    The bird was totally unresponsive to ANY control input, but it was nose slightly up and wing-wobbling stable. FULL POWER WILL NOT GET YOU OUTA THIS. After falling several hundred feet with me trying everything, I think I chopped the power AND the nose fell down. Recovery was not very far off the ground, but she did recover.

    Maybe full power is aggravating the situation???

    My CG is on the mark, with a 6000 in the middle tray and one in the rear.

    When someone else experiences this, let us know what method you used to recover. Now to go clean my shorts!!!

    -GG

    P.S. Check off the range check at low altitude and far distance = pass
    First off, glad you were able to recover the jet.
    This was one of my cautions from my maiden flight report on Motion’s Mig-29, and Alpha later spoke to this on a live Twitch stream as well.

    When exploited, this makes for some BEAUTIFUL power tail slides on the model, but invariably terra’firma will claim some as well for people that don’t give themselves a lot of altitude when performing them.

    It is why I also cautioned people to fly the model at a more forward CG when trying this. (Yes that can mean on the marked CG markings) Keep working the CG further and further back until you find the limit. The limit happens to be around 3/4 of an inch aft of the marked CG for those who are wondering when flying light batteries. When you get aft of that, she will generally flip over on her back, usually dramatically, and then have elevator authority again from the increased airflow.

    I said generally, not always. I got mine to almost an inch aft of the marked CG with light 4400mah RTs while doing some testing, and out of a nose high power stall she proceeded to do a rapid double back flip before settling back into her tail slide. Power to idle and a hard roll to the wing, and she dropped the nose and flew away. Power to idle alone would not recover the jet this far aft, you have to roll off on a wing. The pitch which was fine before when closer to being on the CG marks, was obviously hyper sensitive at this aft CG and required mid elevator rates (usually flying the jet on high) from take off to touchdown, and a very gentle thumb even on 30% expo to fly her back down in one piece. The double backflip and recovery took close to 200ft of altitude, so user beware.

    I might also mention that mine has almost 30 flights on it now, and the stock 17g elevator servos have performed great when set up per the manual. This includes unscale rapid G onsets, negative and positive, from low to high speed. It also includes power dives with intentional pull outs 10-20ft over the runway, as well as falling leaf full deflection slams.

    For those wondering. You can get her to CG 1/2” aft of the CG markings with 4400mah Roaring Tops right here, using the middle and aft bays. My jet has a sound system just slightly forward of the CG and RC Geek centerburners well aft of it. Moving the middle position battery aft allowed me to fly it with a CG around 1” aft of the markings.

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    • Originally posted by Itgordon00 View Post
      ...One pilot is VERY comfortable with his Mig 29. Turning and burning ...
      He was about 18 inches from tying the low altitude record set by that guy in the now-infamous video from Guangzhou.

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      • Hey Guys,

        Mine ready to maiden, just waiting for the replacement servos that should arrive any day now. Question for you all about the CG: there are a few early comments here that state CG was determined with gear down, and I noticed on mine that when the gear is stowed then it becomes very nose heavy at this setting. Many posts state "CG one finger aft" "right on CG" 1/2" aft" "CG right on the mark" etc. but it isn't specifically stated if those CG's are set with the gear up or down. I can move my batteries (5000's) 1/2" either way and it changes the balance significantly so I don't want to be too nose heavy, but on the other hand I don't want to be tail heavy on takeoff and landing. I would appreciate any input from those of you that have commented on your CG - gear up or down?

        Thanks!
        Dan B

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        • Dan,

          Welcome to HobbySquawk!

          I flew two flights on Saturday with the CG right on the marks, gear down. Flew just fine like this, but based on some other comments I may start moving it back a little at a time as I have room to move the battery on the top shelf back by at least 2".
          Pat

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          • I do my CG with gear down. Habit from the glow days more than anything.

            I did my first flights at the molded mark and needed 12 clicks of up trim or between 3 and 4mm of elevator to bottom of fuse line instead of the book 1mm. It needed a good amount of push inverted, much more than I like but I like tail heavier balances.

            I've revamped my pushrods and my servos will be delivered today. I plan to move the balance back about 1cm for the next flights.

            I found that moving the rear battery really doesn't change the CG much. Moving the front does effect it more but I need to move it a good amount to change the balance very much.

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            • My last flights I adjusted the CG and now elevator trim is almost flush with the bottom of the fuse. CG checked with gear down. The manual actually mentions that.
              The difference in trim was done by moving the top battery @25mm. Still required some down elevator to maintain level flight when inverted, but better than before.
              Attached Files

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              • Dan B I balance everything with the gear down, its the first and most critical phase. This includes any of the giant scale warbirds I build, turbines, or foam edf's.

                Even though I've found the majority of these edf's are way nose heavy per the manual, the wheels retracted adding a little more nose weight isn't going to be a big deal. I would rather deal with a crappy flying nose heavy jet, than holding on to a tail heavy one.

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                • Originally posted by Lcacing View Post

                  There is nothing wrong with flying conservative because of the possibility of the servo failing, but claiming that the servos are great and have plenty of power, as to suggest there is nothing wrong with them, is a whole different story. That’s what I was referring to. When I first got my F-14 I was flying very conservative because even then, I thought the 17g servos were borderline, once I upgrade to Hitecs, I started to have fun flying it.

                  Ive also set up the linkages to achieve best geometry and mechanical advantage, but moving a linkage one position out should not be enough to over stress the servo.
                  I did say some, not all so that’s me get out jail free card
                  Yea. I have been sitting in the back reading about the servo issue. For one I feel like if there was no problem Motion wouldn't be sending servos out. Its awesome they are doing it and shows great customer service, but there is a reason they are doing it and its because I feel they think the stock servos are just not enough. From what I can tell the difference between the middle to outer hole of that servo arm looks to be like 1-2mm of a difference which I feel should not cause a servo to fail. Maybe if we were talking about a 2 inch servo arm and the different of the holes were 1/4 apart. Most of the planes I get I tend to max out the throws. If I need to move it to the outer hole to get more throw I will. I tend to push my EDFs to the limits anyway and so far out of 5 Freewing Planes I have not had a stock servo fail on me. From the photos I have seen the geometry does seem odd for the elevator. But hard to tell from some of the photos.

                  Hats off to Motion for sending replacements out to everyone. I would totally have one of these planes now, but my hobby funds for the year is low at the moment :).

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                  • Click image for larger version  Name:	70E90D2C-AD52-401B-A9F8-8F81BBA620C2.jpeg Views:	0 Size:	118.8 KB ID:	275765 Jeremys video of our 3 jet formation. First time all 3 of us have flown together. More than 50 flights between the 3 jets on the stock 17g servos.

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                    • Pics because Everyone loves Pics!!!!
                      Attached Files

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                      • Originally posted by 4923crew View Post
                        Pics because Everyone loves Pics!!!!
                        Awesome pictures!

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                        • Originally posted by garlandk View Post

                          ... looks to be like 1-2mm of a difference which I feel should not cause a servo to fail. Maybe if we were talking about a 2 inch servo arm and the different of the holes were 1/4 apart. ...
                          What matters is not the difference, but the ratio. I just measured mine with calipers, and I get 10.91mm to the second hole and 14.19 to the 3rd hole. That's a ratio of 1.3:1.

                          In the example of 1/4 inch on 2 inches, that is actually much less difference in torque (2.25/2 is only an increase of 12.5%, not 30% as in this case).

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                          • Originally posted by JLambCWU View Post
                            Jeremys video of our 3 jet formation. First time all 3 of us have flown together.
                            The 3-Mig video is awesome! At least I thought so. My man KJU is not happy though, because it exceeds the number of working Mig-29's that he owns.
                            Click image for larger version

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                            • Can anyone tell me if the first batch of Migs is still on schedule for shipping in Europe , or has anything changed due to the servo change .Thanks

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                              • Flight two on mine, dusk flight, with full afterburners lighting up the sky!!!

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                                • And I went to the inner most hole which is even more than 30% from the recommended middle hole.


                                  Originally posted by Gringotuerto View Post

                                  What matters is not the difference, but the ratio. I just measured mine with calipers, and I get 10.91mm to the second hole and 14.19 to the 3rd hole. That's a ratio of 1.3:1.

                                  In the example of 1/4 inch on 2 inches, that is actually much less difference in torque (2.25/2 is only an increase of 12.5%, not 30% as in this case).

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                                  • Just got my mine delivered... I am looking for recommendations for a top-quality receiver for the plane. I have a new Spektrum DX9 transmitter.

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                                    • TV upgrade added kiddies... Coming soon...

                                      Thrust Vector Upgrade Set from Freewing - FJ31611014 This Thrust Vector Upgrade Set is intended for advanced pilots only because it significantly widens the potential agility of the stock Freewing 80mm MiG-29. Roll rate, yaw control, and elevator authority are all increased. The aircraft will be able to depart conventi
                                      My YouTube RC videos:
                                      https://www.youtube.com/@toddbreda

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                                      • Originally posted by IFlyAtlanta View Post
                                        Just got my mine delivered... I am looking for recommendations for a top-quality receiver for the plane. I have a new Spektrum DX9 transmitter.
                                        AR9030T.
                                        AMA 424553

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                                        • Using a Spectrum 9 channel Rx with gyro. AR 9350 has AS3X no safe mode. What I'm putting in mine.

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