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Official Freewing MiG-29 Fulcrum Twin 80mm Thread

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  • JLamb flying his Mig in St George yesterday from a unique perspective. I was standing at the top of a hill while filming (1300" away and 600' above). See the attached pic for a view of where I was standing in relation to the runway. The red X was my position on the hill. Be sure to watch in HD!



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    Pat

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    • Originally posted by janmb View Post

      Yeah definitely see the challenge.

      I think you overestimate fuel consumption though. Unless you plan on hovering for the entire flight, a twin X45 setup will mostly fly between 10-40% throttle, in which case the fuel per minute is far lower

      My twin P20 in my A-10 of similar weight gave me 5+ minutes from just 32oz total...

      Normally I would say no uat being a bad idea, but having seen how ridiculous amounts of air this turbine can suck up without flaming out, I'm tempted to go without as well
      I've built 8 conversions all with felt tip clunks (no UAT) and have hade zero flame outs, or fuel delivery problems so no worries there. I agree with the reduced throttle use estimations and that's why I running 45oz in total which will deliver at least 4.5 min flight time.

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      • Originally posted by HaroldAnderson View Post

        It may be just the camera angle but the plane looks like it was on the verge of a stall to me. When you pulled up flaps that might have been the last straw. What do others think on this video? I've gotten too slow with jets several times turning onto final and that is how mine looked. Sorry to see that. Glad it isn't too bad. I've got the same afterburners in mine and it looks awesome. 6 flights on it so far.

        Edit: I just noticed you said the flaps and gear were still down after the crash.
        Yeah, that looks like a stall to me, too. Lost too much speed on that final climb, then way too slow in the following banked turn. I instinctively poor on the coals for a banked turn. That exact same thing happened to my first A-10 a couple of years ago. You could have substituted the A-10 in that video and it would have been the same video.

        Originally posted by GliderGuy View Post

        Don’t forget....all wires form BOTH ESCs.
        I have a set of chokes on both sides of the aft battery. One set per ESC.

        I did not put any on the motor side of the ESCs.
        -GG
        For now, I just slapped on the one choke I had from the P-51. It goes around all 4 wires from both ESCs. I ordered some more that should come tomorrow. I'll split them and put a separate one on the other ESC power wires.

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        • Yeah im not sure when the uncontrolled roll you describe occurs, is it at 11 seconds as the plane levels out from the slight left roll at 9 seconds? The entire clip looks like pretty low airspeed to be climbing at, although there isnt much in frame to get a proper reference.

          I actually binned mine yesterday, current diagnosis (pending further inspection) is a weak pack leading to reduced thrust from one motor shortly after turning onto downwind after takeoff (i hadnt tried these packs in the mig before, nor will i again lol). She was wallowing around in a similar fashion to the one in that video as it approached stall, but started behaving after cutting the throttle and had enough altitiude and *just* enough control authotiy to get the nose pointed down for a semi-controlled belly flop. Still more inspection work to do but so far the damage is cosmetic, save for the bent elevator horn (went full up elevator at around head height to soften the blow).

          I doubt those intakes will take another hit but they're good for one emergency landing lol.

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          • Originally posted by crxmanpat View Post
            JLamb flying his Mig in St George yesterday from a unique perspective. I was standing at the top of a hill while filming (1300" away and 600' above). See the attached pic for a view of where I was standing in relation to the runway. The red X was my position on the hill. Be sure to watch in HD!



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            Oh wow, that was awesome, but that gear delay needs to go......

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            • He actually waited to put up the gear. Normally he takes off and immediately does a dirty roll, then sucks up the gear on the downwind. The delay has to be there in case you have something with dual stage doors (like I did with mine). But it would be nice to be able to program the gear on the blue box based on single or dual stage doors.

              On all mine with the blue box, I tend to hit the gear switch about halfway through my takeoff run, that way when I'm off the ground and climbing the gear are coming up.
              Pat

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              • Originally posted by crxmanpat View Post
                He actually waited to put up the gear. Normally he takes off and immediately does a dirty roll, then sucks up the gear on the downwind. The delay has to be there in case you have something with dual stage doors (like I did with mine). But it would be nice to be able to program the gear on the blue box based on single or dual stage doors.

                On all mine with the blue box, I tend to hit the gear switch about halfway through my takeoff run, that way when I'm off the ground and climbing the gear are coming up.
                That kind of reminds me of something I saw.



                I do the boring slow takeoff lift and retract after climbing a few feet before doing a steeper ascent. Looks scale, so I've been told ...

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                • Click image for larger version  Name:	MIG29 tank2.png Views:	0 Size:	1.25 MB ID:	277286
                  Originally posted by janmb View Post

                  Have looked at baggies too, just something new to get into - like you, never tried that before.

                  Definitely would require running a decent size UAT in addition though - almost impossible to avoid some air in that bag when filling, and absolutely no way to purge it.
                  Should never have doubted myself, studied the K45g3 video once again and got a screenshot of the tank installed clearly showing the tank size markings on the top and it is the same 1000ml tank I have and for the space available looks to be a optimal use of the space right infront of CG. So its decided the original 1000ml for me plus a 2 oz UAT right up front.

                  I promise not to harp on anymore about this untill I actually have a model to tinker with lol.

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                  • Originally posted by crxmanpat View Post
                    He actually waited to put up the gear. Normally he takes off and immediately does a dirty roll, then sucks up the gear on the downwind. The delay has to be there in case you have something with dual stage doors (like I did with mine). But it would be nice to be able to program the gear on the blue box based on single or dual stage doors.

                    On all mine with the blue box, I tend to hit the gear switch about halfway through my takeoff run, that way when I'm off the ground and climbing the gear are coming up.
                    I do that too but I don't like having to do that to get the cool gear retracting look just after takeoff. I'm paranoid that the plane won't rotate quick enough and I'll end up sliding down the runway. I bypassed the blue box with the gear on one of my planes that I fly a lot, just to avoid having to do that. It would be nice if there were a way to select the gear door stages....

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                    • Maiden report - She flies amazing! RCjetdude helped me get her buttoned up as usual and is really helping me learn. Remember, just 1 month ago I tried to fly the 80mm a-10 as my first EDF and that ended in the dreaded bounce. Since then, I have somewhere over 100 flights on the eflite f-4 and su-30 to try and get up to speed. It's been a... process but finally feeling way more comfortable and capable.

                      I flew the HRB 6000mAh 50c batteries at the rear and middle location. RX is up front. CG was DEAD on which some are reporting as a bit conservative or nose heavier. I have to report that i required absolutely ZERO trim at the recommended CG location. Even with flight modes to mix in elevator trim to flap I didn't need it. At both half and full flaps, it maintained attitude without any adjustment. I did add about 2-3mm more elevator trim at default than the book recommended. I haven't tried my much lighter Spektrum 5000 bats yet. High AoA landings were smooth and easier than the SU-30. She's fast, but doesn't seem like it because of how large it is. I used the inner most elevator servo hole per RCjetdude's standard practice/advice, even though I had the upgraded servos. I still got my throws so it's good. She lands in a much shorter amount of space than the f-4 or su-30.

                      Our maidens were pretty uneventful and I'm thankful for that. Steve flew first and it was good to watch it's characteristics. I can't wait to get back out and fly it again!

                      One of the guys at the field tried to chase us around with a GoPro strapped Timber which was pretty funny. He captured some pretty cool video though and did a quick edit. Alpha : This thing is PERFECTION! Congrats!

                      Quick chase video from the Timber:






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                      • Originally posted by Mavernick* View Post
                        gooniac33 check your messages please and let me know. Thanks.
                        I just did... sorry I didn't get a notification of the message...
                        Check me out on youtube at https://www.youtube.com/user/gooniac33
                        I am an RC addict and innovator that loves to share my knowledge with those that need help. Ask me anything via PM if you need help! Check out my Website here https://www.gooniac33.me/

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                        • Cool video from the hill-top!
                          Could do with a bit of post-processing stabilization though but it was amazing nonetheless! :D

                          Originally posted by DCORSAIR View Post

                          I was waiting for someone to say it first, it looks like a stall to me as well, maybe its not and you find a problem, but I have seen that too many times from jet guys and myself included, it just looked to slow to me.
                          A 'nose-heavy' stall.
                          That's how excessively-nose-heavy planes stall when pulling too much on the elevator when flying slow (another reason I loathe nose heavy CGs).
                          But from the video alone I can't quite determine if it's just a stall or something else.

                          An asymmetric flap deflection could pretty much cause the same reaction, and an EDF stopping and causing assymmetric thrust would do it too.

                          Originally posted by RCPLANEFANATIC View Post
                          Airguardian: was running the jet completely stock with the upgraded servos from Freewing. As per the instructions, I have the elevator servos plugged directly into the RX and everything else goes through the BB. The only modification I have done is my own centerburners which are running off my other flight battery.
                          From the info available, it looks like either a nose-heavy stall or one of the flap servos lacking juice, possibly because of the use of a Blue Box but that's pure speculation on my part.
                          I can't say anything for certain here, other than the proper use of tailerons and better CG placement would have likely helped avoid the crash.

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                          • Originally posted by RCPLANEFANATIC View Post
                            M......... I did the fast passes and one flyby at full flaps. ,,,,,
                            NTSB would conclude this accident result of Pilot Error.

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                            • Originally posted by DCORSAIR View Post

                              I was waiting for someone to say it first, it looks like a stall to me as well, maybe its not and you find a problem, but I have seen that too many times from jet guys and myself included, it just looked to slow to me.
                              also looked as if the aircraft was put into a higher alpha situation late in the pass as well. just before it lost lift and stalled/fell to the right.

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                              • Hello all, just wanted to throw this out there. There has been a lot of talk about adding ferrite rings as an added security measure. Some have pointed out that the plane comes from the factory with the green ferrite ring on the "throttle" line. Mine has one but it is on the power supply line from the bec just like in my f22 from the factory. Is my setup messed up or am I just reading it wrong? I never had any issues with my f22 (stock original setup) but for a few cents I figure why not add a few. Thanks!

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                                • Originally posted by Nickc2023 View Post
                                  Hello all, just wanted to throw this out there. There has been a lot of talk about adding ferrite rings as an added security measure. Some have pointed out that the plane comes from the factory with the green ferrite ring on the "throttle" line. Mine has one but it is on the power supply line from the bec just like in my f22 from the factory. Is my setup messed up or am I just reading it wrong? I never had any issues with my f22 (stock original setup) but for a few cents I figure why not add a few. Thanks!
                                  The most IMPORTANT thing is that the wires coming from the ESCs act as antenna and splay out RF noise.

                                  To be most effective, the ferrite chokes must be placed on the wires coming from the ESCs AND BE PLACED AS CLOSE TO THE ESCs AS POSSIBLE.

                                  Any additional RF filtering is going to help. But, your best results will be with the RF chokes placed as close to the ESCs as possible.

                                  Why? Less wire length = smaller antenna length that is radiating the RF noise from the ESCs.

                                  This rough diagram helps make it clear....the dashes are wires coming from the ESCs...

                                  ESC—radiating—RF Choke——-Not radiating

                                  Now you see the need to put the RF choke as close as possible to the ESCs and on every wire coming forward from the ESCs. I don’t put chokes on the 3 wires going to the motors.

                                  Feel free to think of this as hogwash. I can testify that my high current ESC birds are NO LONGER crashing due to radio glitches. I had 3 cases of glitches before beginning to use these RF chokes. I lost one F-4 and had the A-10 get glitchy twice. Was able to repair the A-10’s first crash....2nd one went into the trees. Not even a hint of a glitch since installing RF choke filters (in 1000+ total flights...F-4, AL37, MiG).

                                  -GG

                                  P.S. The radiated RF noise gets into the receiver from the receiver’s antenna, too. Not just the wires connected to the receiver. Don’t construe this to mean that a choke is needed on the antenna. It just means that chokes placed on the wires at the receiver are less effective. Need to stop the noise at the source....the ESCs.

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                                  • Originally posted by Airguardian View Post
                                    Judging from that crash, looks like the MiG-29 and the Hornet share a problem with flap servo authority.
                                    Using full flying stabs might had allowed you to fight it out and save the jet, but then again... these jets are 'factory reccommended' to be dumbed down. A lot of pilots may also crash their jets due to bad taileron setup. Personally I think it'd be better to teach pilots to use the full potential of the jet in a safe fashion. Using conventional elevators and ailerons on a jet designed to use tailerons is a waste.
                                    Big +1.

                                    I wish the manuals and vendors on social media would do a better job of guiding customers from a "safe" starting point into more sensible and rewarding configurations.

                                    We have seen mild traces of that lately, but still soooo much more that could been done.

                                    Following up the initial launch videos of a new model with one or two follow-up videos delving into more fine tuned configs would been good. Definitely keep whatever disclaimers you feel necessary, but do it! :D



                                    Originally posted by Airguardian View Post
                                    In short: Factory CG recommendations are pretty bad. Those of Freewing included.

                                    But since many users act dumb, giving actually 'good CG' recommendations is a liabilty, so there's your 'enlightening reply' :)
                                    Unfortunately.
                                    Freewing A-10 turbine conversion: http://fb.me/FreewingA10TurbineConversion

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                                    • Originally posted by themudduck View Post
                                      A friend of mine named Brent Lane, who is a professional photographer (and new RC'r that I am helping) took some pics today during a flight of my Mig. WOW!
                                      Wow indeed! Those pics are class!

                                      Freewing A-10 turbine conversion: http://fb.me/FreewingA10TurbineConversion

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                                      • Vid of a 3-ship formation flight from a unique perspective.

                                        Pat

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                                        • Originally posted by fredmdbud View Post


                                          I do the boring slow takeoff lift and retract after climbing a few feet before doing a steeper ascent. Looks scale, so I've been told ...
                                          Good old classic :D

                                          Whoops!
                                          Freewing A-10 turbine conversion: http://fb.me/FreewingA10TurbineConversion

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