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Official Freewing MiG-29 Fulcrum Twin 80mm Thread

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  • I want to know the THRUST TO WEIGHT RATIO (T/W) of FREEWING MIG 29 FULCRUM.
    can anyone answer my question.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by leithalweapon View Post

      Where do you buy the Liperior lipos? rcbattery.com?
      I have yet to buy any, tested a friends at the field, RudyD54 . Hey Rudy, where did you get these. I did see them on rcbattery.com as you stated. My only issue with them is their weight, which is no doubt why they test so well on Actual C on my IR meter. The 5000 6S 45 C weighs 782 g (which is about the same weight as the RT 6250 35C) but of course the Liperior has a much higher actual C, and the 6000 6S 65 C weighs a whopping 983 g (my HobbyStar 8000 100C weighs only 890 g - but of course is no where near the actual C of the Liperior). So in the end, as much as I want to, we just can't "Have our Cake and eat it too". With High actual discharge/C, comes weight, so in the end we have to pick our poison. That high discharge C, for me, only comes into play on taking off of grass, and I'm not one for full throttle, high speed pass after pass, so I end up going for just enough to get airborne and then maximum flight time with as little weight as possible. The price of the Liperior's are quite attractive though, the 5000 at $50 and the 6000 at $89. If 2 5000's in your Mig give you enough flight time to satisfy you, then I think that might be the battery for you, or if you need a little more time aloft, the RT 6250 or HRB 6000 might be the answer, especially if you're flying on a hard surface.
      Hugh "Wildman" Wiedman
      Hangar: FL/FW: Mig 29 "Cobra", A-10 Arctic, F18 Canadian & Tiger Meet, F16 Wild Weasel, F4 Phantom & Blue Angel, 1600 Corsair & Spitfire, Olive B-24, Stinger 90, Red Avanti. Extreme Flight-FW-190 Red Tulip, Slick 60, 60" Extra 300 V2, 62" MXS Heavy Metal, MXS Green, & Demonstrator. FMS-1700mm P-51, Red Bull Corsair. E-Flite-70mm twin SU-30, Beast Bi-Plane 60", P2 Bi-Plane, P-51.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Dirty Dee View Post
        Here it is:

        Someone needs to do a loadout with 6 of these now

        https://cults3d.com/en/3d-model/game...8m1-rocket-pod
        Awesome job and well done!! How much for you to print me up a pair? I can send you payment pronto! And if any one else has any scale 3d printed stuff got the Mig 29, please let me know!

        Thanks!

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Hugh Wiedman View Post

          I have yet to buy any, tested a friends at the field, RudyD54 . Hey Rudy, where did you get these. I did see them on rcbattery.com as you stated. My only issue with them is their weight, which is no doubt why they test so well on Actual C on my IR meter. The 5000 6S 45 C weighs 782 g (which is about the same weight as the RT 6250 35C) but of course the Liperior has a much higher actual C, and the 6000 6S 65 C weighs a whopping 983 g (my HobbyStar 8000 100C weighs only 890 g - but of course is no where near the actual C of the Liperior). So in the end, as much as I want to, we just can't "Have our Cake and eat it too". With High actual discharge/C, comes weight, so in the end we have to pick our poison. That high discharge C, for me, only comes into play on taking off of grass, and I'm not one for full throttle, high speed pass after pass, so I end up going for just enough to get airborne and then maximum flight time with as little weight as possible. The price of the Liperior's are quite attractive though, the 5000 at $50 and the 6000 at $89. If 2 5000's in your Mig give you enough flight time to satisfy you, then I think that might be the battery for you, or if you need a little more time aloft, the RT 6250 or HRB 6000 might be the answer, especially if you're flying on a hard surface.
          I got the batteries from rcbattery.com. Currently they only sell direct and ship out of their warehouse in California. The weight is definitely something I stressed over when picking the packs but in the end I didn’t feel the extra 64 grams (2.26oz) in the F22. I agree with your assessment that higher C is heavier. Since these are rated a lot closer to their actual C you just need to be careful to pick a C that covers whatever amps your motor/fan combo is going to pull and no more or you’ll end up adding dead weight for no reason. Seeing how the 45c performs, there’s a good chance I could have gone with the 35c, saved some weight, and still had enough to cover what the motor pulls at full throttle without stressing the battery. I will also add that although these and the spektrum batteries I have are both 5000, I’m getting more flight time out of these as well. I’m thinking since the voltage doesn’t sag anywhere near as quickly I’m getting more useable mah.

          Comment


          • Well, I did my maiden flight yesterday. As you can see from the picture…it didn’t go as planned. I don’t have a video but I’ve played it back through my mind a thousand times and I can’t think of anything I did that could have caused it. (I know, it’s easy to say “not my fault!). The crash looked similar to the early video crashes that prompted the servo changes, except I wasn’t going as fast.

            Set up according to the manual, (2) 5000 mAh Turnigy batts, (use them in my F-22 and Avanti too, and the same Spektrum AR620-6 channel RX like I use in the other EDF’s). CG on the button with gear down, range check, etc, etc. New servos installed at second hole. Perfect roll down the runway at half flaps, lift off, gear up, flaps up. Needed a few up elevator clicks then proceeded to fly for a couple minutes. Flew great. Set up to land, throttle to about 50%, lowered the gear, flaps down to ½, turned to end of runway to do a gear check. Lined up perfect to the center of the runway to make a pass and was still a little high so I pointed the nose down slightly to bring her down and she kept going down at about a 45 degree angle, I pulled the stick back and NOTHING. The wings were level, motors still responded, but ZERO elevator response. It went straight into the ground. No reason I could see for it to stall. Still had good airspeed and it didn’t drop out of the sky, it flew straight down.

            Post crash I checked all the servos and surfaces, they all worked perfect and the elevator servos pulled very strong. Both batteries around 3.83 volts.

            The only thing I didn’t do when I changed the elevator servos was install the “Y” cable to bypass the blue box. According to the Motion video they said that is an option if you want to.

            Yes, maybe I should have bypassed the blue box to eliminate that possibility, but I don’t know if there is a way to test it to see if that’s why the elevators didn’t respond. I didn’t install any additional RF chokes. I only want to post this in case somebody else loses elevators even with the new servos. I wonder why they included the “Y” cable in the package to buypass the blue box? I called Motion and their jet guy wasn’t aware of any blue box issues. Maybe Alpha can chime in if he has any thoughts?

            Crashing sucks, thanks for listening,

            Dan B

            Comment


            • That's terrible, sorry for the crash but thanks for the report.

              I assume you were using the stock UBEC, right?

              It's hard to say anything for sure but looks like either receiver stopped working (possible brownout) or the servos lacked power supply to function properly.
              Are you sure you had control of throttle?
              Could it just have been the failsafe of the receiver leaving all channels with 'last received input' or 'all pulses centered' ?

              Both of these cases speak to me about a problem in power distribution.
              Be it the UBEC is insufficient or the Li-Pos were bad and/or discharged.
              I think using a separate Rx battery is preferable, more so for birds this size.

              Did the jet go down at the moment of deploying landing gear?
              (remember there's a delay between switching it and gear retracting).

              Either that, or the choke thing.

              Did you measure pack voltage after the crash?

              Comment


              • OK gents, decals for the missiles are now available for order (had to get a new printer as the old one was damaging the paper). The cost for the decals will be $20 shipped to the continental US (if you live outside the US lower 48 states, please contact me for the total with shipping). I take PayPal and prefer the no fees option (if you want buyer protection, please send $21). The decals will include full sets for 2x R-27 missiles, 4x R-73 missiles, and the flare dispensers and radiation warning symbols. Detailed pics of decal placement and application instructions will be included.

                PM me with your order and include your full mailing address if using the PP no fees option, and I will include my PP address. This will be sent in a full size envelope via USPS.

                Click image for larger version  Name:	IMG_5336.JPG Views:	3 Size:	47.9 KB ID:	278037

                Click image for larger version  Name:	Mig-29 Missile Decals.jpg Views:	3 Size:	83.7 KB ID:	278036
                Pat

                Comment


                • Sooo sorry DanB...

                  We would have a data point if the extra RF chokes had been installed. Maybe we do have a data point since they weren’t. Sucks when controls stop responding.

                  -GG

                  Comment


                  • GG, with all respect I’m not 100% sure you are a valid data point or that all wires need a choke.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Dan B View Post
                      Crashing sucks, thanks for listening,
                      Argh, sorry to hear that.

                      If you successfully pushed the model into a nose down attitude, it most certainly was no stall, almost regardless of speed.

                      Freewing A-10 turbine conversion: http://fb.me/FreewingA10TurbineConversion

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Evan D View Post
                        GG, with all respect I’m not 100% sure you are a valid data point or that all wires need a choke.
                        My intent wasn’t meant to be cruel toward Dan B. For a cheap, light weight, easy to install POSSIBLE prevention effort....all to maybe help avert crashes, it’s all I have been presenting.

                        I have freely admitted that all I propose could be wrong.

                        -GG

                        Comment


                        • Understood. I wish we knew more about both cause and cure.

                          Comment


                          • All the additions to my MIG are here ready to install with the exception of the Model Sounds Inc sound system which is on its way to include the pilot figure I'm going to use. New servos, firey booty and get to work on the jet starting this weekend. Decals for the ordnance should be in a couple days. Going to be exciting. Can't wait for the finished product.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by GliderGuy View Post

                              My intent wasn’t meant to be cruel toward Dan B. For a cheap, light weight, easy to install POSSIBLE prevention effort....all to maybe help avert crashes, it’s all I have been presenting.

                              I have freely admitted that all I propose could be wrong.

                              -GG
                              The logic makes sense and it's such a cheap easy fix that I didn't hesitate. It only required 3 chokes on my mig.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Dan B View Post
                                Well, I did my maiden flight yesterday. As you can see from the picture…it didn’t go as planned. I don’t have a video but I’ve played it back through my mind a thousand times and I can’t think of anything I did that could have caused it. (I know, it’s easy to say “not my fault!). The crash looked similar to the early video crashes that prompted the servo changes, except I wasn’t going as fast.

                                Set up according to the manual, (2) 5000 mAh Turnigy batts, (use them in my F-22 and Avanti too, and the same Spektrum AR620-6 channel RX like I use in the other EDF’s). CG on the button with gear down, range check, etc, etc. New servos installed at second hole. Perfect roll down the runway at half flaps, lift off, gear up, flaps up. Needed a few up elevator clicks then proceeded to fly for a couple minutes. Flew great. Set up to land, throttle to about 50%, lowered the gear, flaps down to ½, turned to end of runway to do a gear check. Lined up perfect to the center of the runway to make a pass and was still a little high so I pointed the nose down slightly to bring her down and she kept going down at about a 45 degree angle, I pulled the stick back and NOTHING. The wings were level, motors still responded, but ZERO elevator response. It went straight into the ground. No reason I could see for it to stall. Still had good airspeed and it didn’t drop out of the sky, it flew straight down.

                                Post crash I checked all the servos and surfaces, they all worked perfect and the elevator servos pulled very strong. Both batteries around 3.83 volts.

                                The only thing I didn’t do when I changed the elevator servos was install the “Y” cable to bypass the blue box. According to the Motion video they said that is an option if you want to.

                                Yes, maybe I should have bypassed the blue box to eliminate that possibility, but I don’t know if there is a way to test it to see if that’s why the elevators didn’t respond. I didn’t install any additional RF chokes. I only want to post this in case somebody else loses elevators even with the new servos. I wonder why they included the “Y” cable in the package to buypass the blue box? I called Motion and their jet guy wasn’t aware of any blue box issues. Maybe Alpha can chime in if he has any thoughts?

                                Crashing sucks, thanks for listening,

                                Dan B
                                So sorry dan. This has me a bit nervous even though my maidens went very well.

                                Comment


                                • Originally posted by Dan B View Post
                                  Well, I did my maiden flight yesterday. As you can see from the picture…it didn’t go as planned. I don’t have a video but I’ve played it back through my mind a thousand times and I can’t think of anything I did that could have caused it. (I know, it’s easy to say “not my fault!). The crash looked similar to the early video crashes that prompted the servo changes, except I wasn’t going as fast.

                                  Set up according to the manual, (2) 5000 mAh Turnigy batts, (use them in my F-22 and Avanti too, and the same Spektrum AR620-6 channel RX like I use in the other EDF’s). CG on the button with gear down, range check, etc, etc. New servos installed at second hole. Perfect roll down the runway at half flaps, lift off, gear up, flaps up. Needed a few up elevator clicks then proceeded to fly for a couple minutes. Flew great. Set up to land, throttle to about 50%, lowered the gear, flaps down to ½, turned to end of runway to do a gear check. Lined up perfect to the center of the runway to make a pass and was still a little high so I pointed the nose down slightly to bring her down and she kept going down at about a 45 degree angle, I pulled the stick back and NOTHING. The wings were level, motors still responded, but ZERO elevator response. It went straight into the ground. No reason I could see for it to stall. Still had good airspeed and it didn’t drop out of the sky, it flew straight down.

                                  Post crash I checked all the servos and surfaces, they all worked perfect and the elevator servos pulled very strong. Both batteries around 3.83 volts.

                                  The only thing I didn’t do when I changed the elevator servos was install the “Y” cable to bypass the blue box. According to the Motion video they said that is an option if you want to.

                                  Yes, maybe I should have bypassed the blue box to eliminate that possibility, but I don’t know if there is a way to test it to see if that’s why the elevators didn’t respond. I didn’t install any additional RF chokes. I only want to post this in case somebody else loses elevators even with the new servos. I wonder why they included the “Y” cable in the package to buypass the blue box? I called Motion and their jet guy wasn’t aware of any blue box issues. Maybe Alpha can chime in if he has any thoughts?

                                  Crashing sucks, thanks for listening,

                                  Dan B
                                  Sorry dude, that really sucks. My suspicion is also a brown out or loss of signal. I notice in the picture it appears your antenna-less AR620 is located/mounted on the port side at the rear battery bay. If the plane when you lost command was flying with the starboard side facing you the battery could completely blank out the rx not to mention a lot of of high current wires there feeding the ESC. I really like the AR620 and use them in my smaller, inexpensive planes but would never use one in a big expensive model (no judgement, just my preference). In higher value models, and in particular multi-battery setups I use higher end rx like an AR-7350 or AR-9350 with 1 or 2 satellite antenna and make sure they are as far away from batteries and electronics as possible (on the MIG my AR-7350 is in the front battery compartment as far forward as I could get it to minimize any interference. In general, I also replace the factory BEC with a Castle Creations 10A BEC on all my EDF's.
                                  Attached Files

                                  Comment


                                  • Originally posted by evensen007 View Post

                                    So sorry dan. This has me a bit nervous even though my maidens went very well.
                                    I agree. Even though my maiden was successful, something really bad can still happen in a later flight. Not all of these crashes were on maidens. I've done all I can do to minimize the chances of a later mishap - RX with satellite, RF choke on main power lines, capacitor on RX, by-pass blue box on ELE, AIL, RUD. Only thing left is to turn this plane into a control line plane with direct linkage to the elevator.

                                    Comment


                                    • Originally posted by xviper View Post
                                      I agree. Even though my maiden was successful, something really bad can still happen in a later flight. Not all of these crashes were on maidens. I've done all I can do to minimize the chances of a later mishap - RX with satellite, RF choke on main power lines, capacitor on RX, by-pass blue box on ELE, AIL, RUD. Only thing left is to turn this plane into a control line plane with direct linkage to the elevator.
                                      My chokes are going on tonight and maybe a set of Rosary beads for good measure

                                      xviper, do you guys fly out in Airdrie? I'm in Calgary all the time for business and would like to come out to the field.

                                      Comment


                                      • Asking to learn....Is a brown out REALLY that common with these high current UBECs? Man....they can pump out a lot of current!!
                                        Or....is a brown out just a convenient go-to based upon history when the UBECs were only able to supply lower current levels.

                                        No trying to be a smart a - - but would like to know.

                                        -GG

                                        Comment


                                        • Me personally, using a Graupner setup with a full range RX that has two antennae and is installed away from other equipment and batteries and the antennae are at right angles to each other, I've NEVER had a brown out or any type of loss of signal. The only FW jet I have that is not running on the stock electronics is the F-22 that I converted to 12S. All the others, including the ones with the infamous blue box, are fully stock and not one signal issue.

                                          I've also never had a stock ESC, motor, or UBEC fail on me. A few servos here and there needed replacing after many flights, but nothing else.
                                          Pat

                                          Comment

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