Official Freewing MiG-29 Fulcrum Twin 80mm Thread

[janmb]

My buddy maidened his Mig-29 this weekend. HRB 5000's center and rear. His Balance Bias was rear of the CG marks. That meaning, in Flight Ready condition, when lifting the aircraft at molded balance point, the tail sags and static remains nose high. Elevators at 4mm below chime line. All settings at book rates. Flew fantastic. Rolls, loops, inverted, slow full flaps, long off power glides. no issues.

This got me to thinking. The thrust lines on this aircraft are down and out, which also drives the nose downward. Maybe the molded CG mark should be revised.

I know the default CG position for all aircraft tends to be Nose biased. But with the Mig-29, this may be overcompensated due to the amount of thrust and designed thrust lines of the twin.

Thrust is UP and out, not down.

[Nickc2023]

Got 3 flights in today. 2 on 4000mah 65c graphene's (730/725g) and 1 with 5000mah blue 60c turnigys (801/849g). My setup is mostly stock, just upgraded the elevator servos, bypassed the blue box for elevator only, installed the chokes as per GG's recommendation on esc power and signal wires and threw in a pair of rcgeek afterburner legs. It flew with no issues. Needed an additional 2mm down on leading edge of elevator to fly straight as an arrow at about 50% throttle. Balance is right on cg marks. I was getting about 3:30 with the 4000mah's and just over 4min with the 5000. Mixed flying, nothing too crazy. I did pull some high alpha at about 3 mistakes high and it sure does like to do that back flip when the nose is at about 75 degrees or more and you throttle up but she just flipped and let me level out and fly on with very little altitude lost. Rates are by the book and i kept her in high the whole time. Really well behaved on landing as well just watch out on those carrier landings, I came in a little too nose up and scraped a nozzle. I can't wait for the TV nozzles to be available!

[janmb]

Got 3 flights in today. 2 on 4000mah 65c graphene's (730/725g) and 1 with 5000mah blue 60c turnigys (801/849g). My setup is mostly stock, just upgraded the elevator servos, bypassed the blue box for elevator only, installed the chokes as per GG's recommendation on esc power and signal wires and threw in a pair of rcgeek afterburner legs. It flew with no issues. Needed an additional 2mm down on leading edge of elevator to fly straight as an arrow at about 50% throttle. Balance is right on cg marks. I was getting about 3:30 with the 4000mah's and just over 4min with the 5000. Mixed flying, nothing too crazy. I did pull some high alpha at about 3 mistakes high and it sure does like to do that back flip when the nose is at about 75 degrees or more and you throttle up but she just flipped and let me level out and fly on with very little altitude lost. Rates are by the book and i kept her in high the whole time. Really well behaved on landing as well just watch out on those carrier landings, I came in a little too nose up and scraped a nozzle. I can't wait for the TV nozzles to be available!

Congrats!

75 degrees is pretty damn extreme though. Most models have challenges with that in one form or another.

Thrust line makes extreme alpha with this model a bit more dangerous than it ought to be for sure, but fortunately TV will make that problem obsolete.

[Nickc2023]

Congrats!

75 degrees is pretty damn extreme though. Most models have challenges with that in one form or another.

Thrust line makes extreme alpha with this model a bit more dangerous than it ought to be for sure, but fortunately TV will make that problem obsolete.

Oh trust me, I was only pulling it up that much because I had plenty of altitude. The nozzle scraping happened at about a 40 degree angle.

[GliderGuy]

OK gents, decals for the missiles are now available for order (had to get a new printer as the old one was damaging the paper). The cost for the decals will be $20 shipped to the continental US (if you live outside the US lower 48 states, please contact me for the total with shipping). I take PayPal and prefer the no fees option (if you want buyer protection, please send $21). The decals will include full sets for 2x R-27 missiles, 4x R-73 missiles, and the flare dispensers and radiation warning symbols. Detailed pics of decal placement and application instructions will be included.

PM me with your order and include your full mailing address if using the PP no fees option, and I will include my PP address. This will be sent in a full size envelope via USPS.

I received the decal set from Pat. The set is REALLY NICE! Well done Pat, and thanks.

Makes for a more visually stunning MiG! Highly recommended!!! Good instruction set, too.

-GG

[GliderGuy]

"negative 1 mm flap when up". Where does the flap trailing edge end up in reference to the fuselage?

Sorry - Missed seeing your question. See photo....may be 2mm vs 1 mm.

Absolutely no pitch change with speed changes.

Aileron is flush with the outer trailing edge of the wing. Others have adjusted the ailerons to match the flap. I may also. But it flies so nicely like it is.

Note: It is a result of one flap push rod being slightly too long. Adjustment of the ball link was maxed out. I decided to leave it and made the other flap match. Full scale sailplanes use negative flap, so I wasn’t concerned. I didn’t want to mess with modifying the push rod. Visually, for display, I can always add a touch of transmitter vernier knob positive flap input.

-GG

[radfordc]

No, I tried to search for them. The only Socokin LiPo that comes up is a 6200msh, 7.4V. No 6s comes up.

I'm using Socokin 6s 6000's that I got from Amazon. Still listed at $66 each for Prime members.

https://www.amazon.com/Socokin-Battery-Quadcopter-Airplane-Helicopter/dp/B083NRGTGJ/ref=sr_1_2?dchild=1&keywords=socokin&qid=1601421827&sr=8-2

[xviper]

I'm using Socokin 6s 6000's that I got from Amazon. Still listed at $66 each for Prime members.

https://www.amazon.com/Socokin-Batte...1421827&sr=8-2

I'm in Canada and I use Amazon.ca. None available here. Thanks just the same. I ended up getting the HRBs via ebay.ca

[HaroldAnderson]

Clean jet (no weapons/pylons) 5500mah, 70C Roaring Tops, CG on the CG marks. Calm winds.

I did the flight LIVE on FB, otherwise people jump in with all kinds of speculation. (Especially people who haven’t flown it)
Video intentionally shows battery placement, and the windsock being dead calm. Temperature was 82° and the density altitude was over 7,000ft.

They were also my oldest pair of Roaring Tops. Still faster than the latest top Spektrum 4000-5000, HRBs, Admiral HDs, CNHL 70C, Pulse, Zeee, etc. I have 52 6S lipos, my Mig-29 now has almost 100 flights, the Roaring Tops even after 100s of cycles are still the best. I’ve literally tried everything that is out there and commercially available. Every battery besides the Roaring Tops was a minimum 5-6mph slower, no joke. I don’t work for Roaring Top or any other vendor, and I pay for my batteries.

That said, I said multiple times during the flight that we were trying to achieve maximum AIRFRAME speed. NOT level course or timed speed. That it was GPS over the ground max speed.

I turned around pretty high after the first two speed passes from mostly level. Because it was around 300ft up, I left it at idle after pulling over the top until I started pulling to level off over the runway, then punched it. Because she is so big, she doesn’t look as fast as she’s actually moving.

The T-33 and L-39 are both faster with the inrunners.

Look forward to seeing everyone else’s speed mods on it.
Subsequently, we also radar’d the birds down at St George and had 4 fliers there. Pat can speak to it, but I think they radar’d around 120mph.

My top speed on the FW T-33 is 130 mph measured with a FrSky pitot tube sensor. It routinely hits 125 or 126 mph during diving passes. I've not really tried straight and level speed passes but I guess I should. 45C 5000s. One of the guys in the our club said he was going to buy one of the T-33s until he saw it fly. He said he decided it was too fast for him. Oops! Sorry MotionRC.... It does slow down for some really nice slow low passes down the runway though with full flaps.

[crxmanpat]

I received the decal set from Pat. The set is REALLY NICE! Well done Pat, and thanks.

Makes for a more visually stunning MiG! Highly recommended!!! Good instruction set, too.

-GG

Glad you like them!

[Miroslav Cerny]

I would also like someone to summarize the circumstances surrounding the MiG-29 accidents and the problem with the elevator. Some summary of circumstances. I can't believe Freewing would be a big deal. Thank you

[GliderGuy]

I would also like someone to summarize the circumstances surrounding the MiG-29 accidents and the problem with the elevator. Some summary of circumstances. I can't believe Freewing would be a big deal. Thank you

We’re not sure what is causing the crashes.
Suspects are related to:
-air flow over wing / tail
-CG location
-receiver/receiver placement
-satellites / satellite placements
-RF noise coupling into receivers from ESCs
-various pilot (world wide) experience levels (sorry guys...not a slap)
-AoA on final / airspeed
-control box malfunctions
-flap deflection amounts
-control set-ups...not by the book
-missiles on / off
-other yet unidentified....

Too early to tell. Nothing can be judged as the cause at this point.

-GG

PS Need to look at missile load-outs. I have never flown w/o missiles. Do they generate enough air flow control to forestall any supposed airflow coupling over the tail? Wouldn’t it be nice if LEAVE ON THE MISSILES was a solution?

[Funfly3D]

The European Mig 29's are on the way............ got my shipping confirmation to UK

[Evan D]

My take is that the first ones were attributed to not assembling the plane correctly and flying nose heavy. That we saw the first four crashes had the pushrods in the outer hole of the elevator servo and they may have placed their batteries in the rear and forward battery locations without reading the instruction or balancing the plane. Many people see where the battery can go and just put them there thinking the manufacturer makes those locations so obviously the plane will balance there. This plane has three battery locations and the middle one is not as obvious as the rear and forward. We couldn't tell from all the crash videos where they did place their batteries but on those we could it appeared that they had to be more nose heavy that the book CG and all four of the first crashes appeared to fly very nose heavy. Between the misplaced servo linkage and nose heavy it appeared the servo did not have the power to pull out of a dive.

These crashes prompted Motion to send out a higher torque servo to replace the elevator servos for the first batch of buyers and to place them in the box for the others they shipped. We still have not heard what the other resellers globally have done, if anything.


More recent crashes have been different with possible loss of signal, elevator blanking, exhaust nozzle angles or other theories presented as GG has noted.

I would also like someone to summarize the circumstances surrounding the MiG-29 accidents and the problem with the elevator. Some summary of circumstances. I can't believe Freewing would be a big deal. Thank you

[Flying Dutchman]

The European Mig 29's are on the way............ got my shipping confirmation to UK

Same here in The Netherlands!

[nuts-n-volts]

Thank Goodness for Europe! Maybe we can get this blog back to semi-normal now that the chatties will have meat and potatoes on their plates. Go fly it, then discuss it! Just sayin'!

[janmb]

Thank Goodness for Europe! Maybe we can get this blog back to semi-normal now that the chatties will have meat and potatoes on their plates. Go fly it, then discuss it! Just sayin'!

You are going to be sadly disappointed 😂 Engineers don't stop being engineers just because we get to fly the damn thing 🤣

[Jacckall]

The European Mig 29's are on the way............ got my shipping confirmation to UK

Same here in Slovakia! :D Slovak camouflage Mig 29 to Slovak Republic :D

[GliderGuy]

Would someone care to take on a flight evaluation / study and post your results?

Looking at the location of the missiles, they appear to be in perfect position to exert flow control over the elevator/stabilator.

I glued my missiles on...otherwise, I would do this.

Flight realms to explore with both load-outs (missiles on and off):
-High AoA
-Shallow dive slow and fast
-approach to landing
-various flap settings
-etc

Please do this with sufficient recovery altitude. No planes should be harmed in this study.

Your efforts might just uncover the solution to the mysterious loss of control some have seen.

I have always flown with missiles and have not experienced any* loss of elevator control. Just saying....

-GG

PS *Other than my falling leaf experience. And we have a handle on that now.

[Evan D]

I have only flown with no pylons and missiles and had zero negative issues. About the only think I have not done is kept throttle in past zero vertical airspeed, I chop it and fall. And I have not done any flat spins yet. High alpha, tail slides, stall turns, etc have all been no issue.