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Official Freewing MiG-29 Fulcrum Twin 80mm Thread

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  • Originally posted by flyAA View Post

    -no RF chokes
    -flaps up
    -probably around 30% throttle
    -i was in a descending left hand turn. no flaps/gear moving
    -hrb 6s 5000 batteries
    -my receiver is in the forward battery tray and the satellite is in the nose

    Thanks for your help!
    It may be the tinfoil hat I am wearing, but I would be weary of the admiral 10 channel receiver. I've had an airframe loss, and a few signal lockouts with 2 admiral retrievers (the 10 channel ones) , and even a lemonRx 10ch which is very close to an admiral. each case it also had the satellite antenna installed. Ive since swapped those 10 channels out for older 7channel versions and I have been issue-free since.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Hugh Wiedman View Post

      Were you able to look at the signal menu on you TX after your flight (assuming your TX has the capability) and see how many frame losses you had and if there were any holds indicating a temporary loss of signal?
      Unfortunately not.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by GliderGuy View Post
        Send a photo of your radio set up in the MiG. Also….strongly consider adding RF chokes. Research the discussions here in this thread.

        My gut feeling (hunch) the loss of control is not BEC related, since you stated that no systems were in transition/moving. There’s another gremlin in your system IMO!

        The experts here will be able to help you sort this out. MAN….don’t fly it again until you are sure the gremlin is gone! I sense a disaster as the outcome, otherwise.


        -GG
        I’ll definitely post a pic later and I’m absolutely not flying it again until I figure this out.

        I’m thinking of 2 options:

        1) remove the pro modeler servos and swap out receiver for a spektrum

        2) keep the pro modelers and add a 20a BEC. Change the receiver to spektrum

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Dirty Dee View Post

          It may be the tinfoil hat I am wearing, but I would be weary of the admiral 10 channel receiver. I've had an airframe loss, and a few signal lockouts with 2 admiral retrievers (the 10 channel ones) , and even a lemonRx 10ch which is very close to an admiral. each case it also had the satellite antenna installed. Ive since swapped those 10 channels out for older 7channel versions and I have been issue-free since.
          That may be a possibility but i have had great luck with this receiver, satellite and gyro combo. I have the same setup in 5 Freewing jets with no issues over hundreds of flights. I know that doesn’t mean i can’t have an issue now, but that’s what makes me think it may be BEC related.

          Comment


          • RF chokes can't do any harm, but the symptoms described don't seem likely to have been caused by noise on the servo or ESC leads.

            And the servo current draw in a descending turn with no controls moving doesn't seem likely to overwhelm the BEC. (Disclaimer, I know nothing about Pro Modeler servos and their current draw).

            I'd take a good look at antenna placement.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by flyAA View Post
              I lost all control in a descending left hand turn and eventually gained it back after 3-4 harrowing seconds lol. I’m leaning towards an issue with the BEC. Could those high power servos be causing an overload on the stock 8a BEC?


              Did that include throttle control? Did the motors continue running or shut down? Did you have failsafes set up?

              Comment


              • Originally posted by kallend View Post

                Did that include throttle control? Did the motors continue running or shut down? Did you have failsafes set up?
                When i realized she was heading for the ground i went to idle so if they shut down i would not have noticed. I did not set up any fail safes.

                Comment


                • Did you just buy this receiver? There has been some talk of the newer lemon products having some issues with signal (6/7ch w/gyro as well as the lemon and admiral 10ch). From what I gathered, it seems the receivers with dual diversity antennas vs the shorter single stubby antennas have the issues, at least with the 6/7 ch.

                  I have to wear the tin foil hat on this one too.. I love the lemon RXs and have them in most of my planes too. Even knowing what I first mentioned with the issues I recently bought a new 10ch lemon w/satellite for my F22 and had the same EXACT situation happen multiple times over 3 batteries. The last flight happened more than once and I just landed it. I was re-setting up this plane after having it down for a while. Wasn't sure if it was the A3 gyro or not but I have reduced it down to the 10ch so far.
                  When it happened it was usually in a turn (one was flying straight and level out in front of me) was 1-3/4 seconds of loss of control. Next time I fly it I will try and improve antenna and sat antenna placement but also put back the 7 channel lemon rx I previously had in there.. or buy something else if i don't wad it.

                  Side note I have my old tried and true 7ch lemon rx gyro w/satellite in the nose for my mig 29 and so far it has been rock steady over 60 flights.

                  Originally posted by flyAA View Post

                  That may be a possibility but i have had great luck with this receiver, satellite and gyro combo. I have the same setup in 5 Freewing jets with no issues over hundreds of flights. I know that doesn’t mean i can’t have an issue now, but that’s what makes me think it may be BEC related.
                  Originally posted by Dirty Dee View Post

                  It may be the tinfoil hat I am wearing, but I would be weary of the admiral 10 channel receiver. I've had an airframe loss, and a few signal lockouts with 2 admiral retrievers (the 10 channel ones) , and even a lemonRx 10ch which is very close to an admiral. each case it also had the satellite antenna installed. Ive since swapped those 10 channels out for older 7channel versions and I have been issue-free since.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by GarrisonR View Post
                    Did you just buy this receiver? There has been some talk of the newer lemon products having some issues with signal (6/7ch w/gyro as well as the lemon and admiral 10ch). From what I gathered, it seems the receivers with dual diversity antennas vs the shorter single stubby antennas have the issues, at least with the 6/7 ch.

                    I have to wear the tin foil hat on this one too.. I love the lemon RXs and have them in most of my planes too. Even knowing what I first mentioned with the issues I recently bought a new 10ch lemon w/satellite for my F22 and had the same EXACT situation happen multiple times over 3 batteries. The last flight happened more than once and I just landed it. I was re-setting up this plane after having it down for a while. Wasn't sure if it was the A3 gyro or not but I have reduced it down to the 10ch so far.
                    When it happened it was usually in a turn (one was flying straight and level out in front of me) was 1-3/4 seconds of loss of control. Next time I fly it I will try and improve antenna and sat antenna placement but also put back the 7 channel lemon rx I previously had in their.. or buy something else if i don't wad it.

                    Side note I have my old tried and true 7ch lemon rx gyro w/satellite in the nose for my mig 29 and so far it has been rock steady over 60 flights.


                    That’s interesting. This receiver was bought probably 3-4 months ago and this is the first plane it’s been in.

                    For peace of mind i think I’ll retire this particular receiver.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by flyAA View Post

                      That’s interesting. This receiver was bought probably 3-4 months ago and this is the first plane it’s been in.

                      For peace of mind i think I’ll retire this particular receiver.
                      A wise decision!

                      Before the next flight and with the new RX, get a buddy to hold her up at all angles and power settings at some distance. Do a thorough range/function wring out.

                      Make sure that bug is dead!

                      -GG

                      Comment


                      • Here’s some pics of my receiver setup. The antenna wires off the receiver are pointing back and down. Off the satellite they are pointing forward and up. It’s kind of hard to tell.

                        Comment


                        • I'd recommend making those antenna as straight as possible, even if they have to be at an angle. And make one vertical.

                          Comment


                          • Antennae placement looks good.

                            The servos pull 0.110A no load and (if I remember right 1.4A? stalled, I think that was at 6V. Assuming that flying you have some load on the servos but not the stalled load I think a 5A BEC could even handle the power so a 8A should be fine. I would think the highest draw for your A/C is still the retracts. As others have said you were not highly active when your issue happened so I'd say the BEC would be lower on my risk list. As others have said the #1 thing I'd have on my risk list if this happened to me would be the receiver itself.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Evan D View Post
                              Antennae placement looks good.

                              The servos pull 0.110A no load and (if I remember right 1.4A? stalled, I think that was at 6V. Assuming that flying you have some load on the servos but not the stalled load I think a 5A BEC could even handle the power so a 8A should be fine. I would think the highest draw for your A/C is still the retracts. As others have said you were not highly active when your issue happened so I'd say the BEC would be lower on my risk list. As others have said the #1 thing I'd have on my risk list if this happened to me would be the receiver itself.
                              Thanks Evan, glad to hear your opinion. I believe you said earlier in the thread guys who were putting huge power horizontal stab servos may be setting themselves up for other problems.

                              on my maiden I actually had a slight loss of signal as well, albeit much less pronounced as it lasted only about 2 seconds and i was still climbing. I was in a level about 40* pitch attitude climb with about half power. I had turned the gyro on about 20 seconds prior so i was thinking that had something to do with it.

                              thanks for all your help guys. New receiver going in tonight.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Evan D View Post
                                Antennae placement looks good.

                                The servos pull 0.110A no load and (if I remember right 1.4A? stalled, I think that was at 6V. Assuming that flying you have some load on the servos but not the stalled load I think a 5A BEC could even handle the power so a 8A should be fine. I would think the highest draw for your A/C is still the retracts. As others have said you were not highly active when your issue happened so I'd say the BEC would be lower on my risk list. As others have said the #1 thing I'd have on my risk list if this happened to me would be the receiver itself.
                                I measured the load as the gear was retracted. For that short period of time the current draw was just over "one" amp.That includes the nose gear.
                                4QR1HU9N7

                                Comment


                                • The overall system draw at "idle" was just over 500 milliamps.This measurement was on all Hitec digital servos.
                                  4QR1HU9N7

                                  Comment


                                  • Follow up on post
                                    #4742

                                    I promised to post the results of the internal resistance measurements made on my 10 batteries with the EV-PEAK CQ3. Here are the results which include all the wiring/connector resistances, of course, and done after the batteries sat at 74F for 24 hours prior to charging/measuring. Values in milliOhms were read after a full charge.
                                    Battery # Date Into Service Total IR + connectors Average IR/Cell
                                    1 4/2020 10.00 1.60
                                    2 4/2020 14.00 2.30
                                    3 4/2020 9.00 1.50
                                    4 4/2020 11.00 1.80
                                    5 4/2020 12.00 2.00
                                    6 4/2020 12.00 2.00
                                    7 9/2020 15.00 2.50
                                    8 9/2020 12.00 2.00
                                    9 9/2020 10.00 1.70
                                    10 9/2020 15.00 2.50
                                    So, it seems that the CQ3 does a fairly good job of providing measurements consistent with what you guys said that they should be. It is interesting that the batch of newer batteries have overall a slightly higher reading. I definitely don't see anything amiss with these readings.

                                    Take-away: The Admiral Pro 6S 6000 mAh batteries are doing a darn good job withstanding all the use I have heaped upon them in the "over 3000 total" flights they have supported.

                                    -GG

                                    Add note: Not every version of the CQ3 supports IR measurements.

                                    Comment


                                    • Originally posted by flyAA View Post
                                      Here’s some pics of my receiver setup. The antenna wires off the receiver are pointing back and down. Off the satellite they are pointing forward and up. It’s kind of hard to tell.
                                      Quick question, as you said earlier that your receiver is "in the forward battery tray" and the "satellite is in the nose". Is your forward battery placed alongside the receiver, or is it behind the receiver. If the receiver is situated along side the battery, then the battery will definitely block the signal going to those 2 antennae coming off the RX. The satellite is far enough forward not to be affected. Early on before I knew much (not that I know much more now) I once place my main RX antenna too close to a battery and lost signal temporarily, even after some 50 flights. Trust me, that battery will play holy hell with your signal if the main antennae are too close to it.
                                      Hugh "Wildman" Wiedman
                                      Hangar: FL/FW: Mig 29 "Cobra", A-10 Arctic, F18 Canadian & Tiger Meet, F16 Wild Weasel, F4 Phantom & Blue Angel, 1600 Corsair & Spitfire, Olive B-24, Stinger 90, Red Avanti. Extreme Flight-FW-190 Red Tulip, Slick 60, 60" Extra 300 V2, 62" MXS Heavy Metal, MXS Green, & Demonstrator. FMS-1700mm P-51, Red Bull Corsair. E-Flite-70mm twin SU-30, Beast Bi-Plane 60", P2 Bi-Plane, P-51.

                                      Comment


                                      • Looking at the pics he’s using the rear and mid bays.

                                        Comment


                                        • Originally posted by Hugh Wiedman View Post

                                          Quick question, as you said earlier that your receiver is "in the forward battery tray" and the "satellite is in the nose". Is your forward battery placed alongside the receiver, or is it behind the receiver. If the receiver is situated along side the battery, then the battery will definitely block the signal going to those 2 antennae coming off the RX. The satellite is far enough forward not to be affected. Early on before I knew much (not that I know much more now) I once place my main RX antenna too close to a battery and lost signal temporarily, even after some 50 flights. Trust me, that battery will play holy hell with your signal if the main antennae are too close to it.
                                          I am using the rear and mid bays for the batteries. Nothing in the front bay besides receiver and gyro. Satellite is up in the nose.

                                          Comment

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