Official Freewing 90mm F-104 Starfighter Thread

[seaviper]

Got her ready for maiden. I'm setting the gyro at about 15% on all channels. Initially it will be off with a switch to engage in flight.
Gonna try for in the morning if I can get to the club early. "Will it be the first flight or the first crash? Who the hell knows hey"

Anyway, in true Freewing form, during final assembly I found the screws listed and provided for attaching the wing tanks were incorrect. Also, I had to cut and solder the rudder and elevator cables as I simply had nowhere to go with those big connectors.
It's more secure now anyway. And, the motor wires on main retracts were soldered really badly. One came off while just looking at it. I ended up just wicking out the old solder and completely re-doing them. They also had the motor wires and servo wires twisted initially. They need to lay flat under the retract when installed.

I also "greased" the axels with powdered graphite. Slicker than snot on a doorknob. I lube all my jets wheels with graphite now since I fly off a grass/dirt runway.

Overall I think she is going to be a great bird if she survives the maiden.

[DCORSAIR]

I know everyone flies different but this is how I had mine set up. CG was at 75mm, Ailerons at 18mm up/dwn, Elev. at 32mm up/dwn, flap/elevator mix at 5mm up with 60mm flaps, I wouldn't recommend 60mm flaps until you get used to how it lands, 20-25mm is fine on your first flights. I didn't use any flaps on my maiden flight and it landed hot so I went to 25mm then just kept adding more as I got more flights on it until I got to 60mm, I never used the gyro, flew fine without it in calm wind but any slight breeze it would wing walk big time. Good luck on your maiden, I'm sure you will do fine.

[seaviper]

Well today, Gentlemen, I became a member of the F-104 club. Successful maiden and three subsequent flights. By flight 3 she was tuned. I have uploaded flights 1 and 4.
Flight 1 was probably the scariest maiden I have done. Only needed one turn on the elevator linkage to trim out. But the wing rocking was a bit unnerving.
Flight 4 shows the current settings in action.

All landings were at full flaps. I don't think I need any elevator mixing with flaps.

Takeoffs and landings were really not a challenge so much as trimming the wing rocking with our gusty crosswinds today. On flight 1 I had the gyro set at about 10-15%. Too little.
Flight 2 had the gyro set at close to 50%. Too much. Flights 3 and 4 had the gyro at about 25-30%. It seems just right now. I may dial it down when I get more flights on her.

The landing gear was perfect for our rough field.

My settings are as follows:

Gyro approx 25% all channels
Ailerons 100% travel, 30% expo
Flaps 0, 50, 100% whatever that works out to in mm.
Elevator by the book 100% up, 80% down to clear rudder, 20% expo No mixing with flaps
Rudder by the book, 20% expo
had to go in one hole on servo arm (4th hole from outside) for both elevator and rudder to make the travels work out.
Admiral 6s 5000 50C (new version) all the way forward.
CG appears to be at about right on the forward wing bolt, within the width of my fingertips. Worked great!






Maiden

Flight 4

[DCORSAIR]

Good job seaviper on your maiden, now you know why I posted 18mm on the ailerons..............:)

[seaviper]

I like the F-104 a lot. It's a great bird. But man it simply has no wingspan. I cannot imagine flying this thing without tanks. I think Gooniac said he did that. Scary. It's like flying a needle even with the tanks on.

I am very pleased with the gear. Now I know the F-16 will have no issues on our hay field.

[Bill]

Reinforcement of fuselage just aft of ventral intake grate. See GPJ’s note on page 2. Potential for fuselage break.
1. Locate site for carbon rods placement. GPJ’s photos reveal best sites. See my photos on sites in the main gear bay.
2. Carbon rods need to be 9 to 10 cm long. They will be pushed forward into the foam.
3. I used a needle file to drill the canals. See photo with file at site.
4. I epoxied the carbon rods in place. Put a paper towel just below the rods as you push them in. The glue can run down on the servos below. Last photo shows rods in place.
Bill

[seaviper]

Already doing that to my 104 Bill. Just ordered my carbon rods.

Freewing needs to get their act together as far as QC goes. For the prices we pay, I for one ,expect better.

[Bill]

Yes, seaviper. I have yet to maiden mine. Thank you for the info on your flights. I may maiden with CG just ahead of the forward wing screws. Gear down, upright, fingertips.
I liked your landings with enough speed to avoid stall. Appeared to land like most heavy jets with high wing loading, (Freewing Me 262)? Is that your impression?
Bill

[DCORSAIR]

Yes, seaviper. I have yet to maiden mine. Thank you for the info on your flights. I may maiden with CG just ahead of the forward wing screws. Gear down, upright, fingertips.
I liked your landings with enough speed to avoid stall. Appeared to land like most heavy jets with high wing loading, (Freewing Me 262)? Is that your impression?
Bill

Bill,
I had mine at 75mm on the cg, it flew fine with that, sold it before I could try the 78mm recommended cg, I think some guys even went back farther than 78mm, flying the F-104 is a joy, it really flies great as long as you keep it moving. I did try a stall one time, got it really slow and it finally dropped a wing to the right, it came right out of it with some throttle. I never really got that greased landing with it though, needed more time on it, I sold it to get the A-10. I would like to try another one and use the gyro this time around.

[seaviper]

Hi Bill,

What other jets do you fly? What battery are you using?

My CG is like right on that screw or maybe slightly behind it. I got big fingertips..lol. It flew great. Measuring is a bit of a chore since you can be off a few millimeters depending on how you measure. Yes I measured mine gear down. With gear up the CG moves a little forward, which probably puts mine right on the recommended value.
Don't sweat it. As long as the Cg is around that point you should be good. I got my Admiral 6s 5000 50C (new version) all the way forward. But I also removed the afterburner during re-paint.

The F-104 lands like all heavy jets. Just throw out the gear and flaps (mine are at 50% for half and 100% travel on the radio for full flaps), pull power back to abut 20% or maybe lower (I use ears for that).
Yes it's a little like the 262 in that you have to carry power on the approach. She lands just like the T-45 in my opinion.
Drop the nose a little for the descent, adjust descent angle with throttle, round out a couple feet off the deck, and set down with throttle reduction. I know some like to fly high alpha on approach. That is begging for a disaster. We pilots call that "dragging her in". In high alpha, you are close to a stall. Not a good situation. I think I can actually fly a slower approach with nose slightly down and full flaps. Anyway, we have wind shear at our field due to trees. Nose down is better on my field unless it's absolutely calm. I can do those nose high landings. And I can screw up both types of landings nicely. :)

Nothing special about takeoff or landing. It was the orientation and wing rocking that was my challenge. It's like flying a needle. I love it!

On the gyro, have yourself an on/off switch programmed. Set the gyro at a low setting, like maybe 20%. Takeoff with gyro OFF. get her trimmed. You will probably need a little elevator trim one way or the other since it's hard to eyeball that elevator perfectly. Once she is under positive control, activate the gyro. You can't see it in the helmet cam, but on my maiden, on downwind, she was rocking those wings like crazy. I hit the gyro switch and she completed a roll with gear and half flaps while the gyro stabilized. My response was "ok". I was shaking in my boots. After that it was a nice calm approach.

My ailerons are at 100% travel (not book value, not reduced value) with 30% expo. I like a lot of aileron. Just don't dial the gyro up too far. I tried 50% on the gyro, 75% on the ailerons for flight 2. Damn near lost her because of that. It took a half county to turn.

My advice.. Takeoff, get her trimmed, activate gyro, drop gear, hit the pattern to land. Don't waste any time with anything else. That way you have plenty of time for a go-around. Knowing you have plenty of time takes the pressure off during those first landings. Landing with an empty bag of gas is no good. And that's especially true on flight 1.

[Bill]

Thanks for the info, seaviper.
I also use the new longer Admiral 6S 5000’s. Presently I am flying the Freewing Me 262, Mig 21, Super Scorpion, Rebel 70, and the smaller Yak 130 (FMS version). In the F 104, I put the receiver, satellite receiver, and the BEC up front with the stabilizer. Had to cut some foam. I cleaned the paint-over on the afterburner and it lights up like a Christmas tree. Balances well with the battery all way forward. Our airfield is similar to yours—grass field with trees on both sides. We are fortunate that the airfield is full length for full size aircraft, so plenty of room to land EDF’s. Have to watch for the real planes landing (we have radio on speakers). See the field (Epps Airfield), at our website, flynarca.com.
I will try to get video and report on my Widowmaker maiden. My wife particularly likes that name.
Bill

[gooniac33]

Finally finished up the painting today. The revised graphics from Callie should be in soon. I will test fly her in the next few days if the weather will cooperate with me.
I removed the "afterburner" when I had the tail cone off for painting. That should help a little in the weight and balance department.

I will post the helmet cam when she gets airborne. Should be soon. I still have to put all the spaghetti back inside. Honestly I cannot wait to fly her.
For the first flight I plan to run the gyro at very low settings and work it up from there. I have a gyro on/off witch set up as well.

Any helpful comments before the first flight would be appreciated.

I agree with all said above. I will also go back and look at my setting for flaps as well. It is important to set up the plane in a way that keeps its attitude the same when flaps are deployed. Mine will slow down but not pitch up or down with the flaps down. It is really important to not let the nose go up on landing approach. You need to use the throttle to control the descent and never use the elevator especially with the stock CG setting. I have a different fan in mine now and the CG has moved forward which really helps a lot on the landing approach. It can flare now where as before it would not. It would do a death bounce then stall... Also the landing approach should be at no less than 60% throttle since flaps and gear down will cause it to slow down quite a bit!

Take a look at my playlist of flights... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OOOx...Bpz_8E4SZGZiNR

Here is one of my best landings...

[gooniac33]

Finally finished up the painting today. The revised graphics from Callie should be in soon. I will test fly her in the next few days if the weather will cooperate with me.
I removed the "afterburner" when I had the tail cone off for painting. That should help a little in the weight and balance department.

I will post the helmet cam when she gets airborne. Should be soon. I still have to put all the spaghetti back inside. Honestly I cannot wait to fly her.
For the first flight I plan to run the gyro at very low settings and work it up from there. I have a gyro on/off witch set up as well.

Any helpful comments before the first flight would be appreciated.

I agree with all said above. I will also go back and look at my setting for flaps as well. It is important to set up the plane in a way that keeps its attitude the same when flaps are deployed. Mine will slow down but not pitch up or down with the flaps down. It is really important to not let the nose go up on landing approach. You need to use the throttle to control the descent and never use the elevator especially with the stock CG setting. I have a different fan in mine now and the CG has moved forward which really helps a lot on the landing approach. It can flare now where as before it would not. It would do a death bounce then stall... Also the landing approach should be at no less than 60% throttle since flaps and gear down will cause it to slow down quite a bit!

Take a look at my playlist of flights... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OOOx...Bpz_8E4SZGZiNR

Here is one of my best landings...

[Bill]

Thanks, Goon.
Your landings and comments on this and rcgroups forum have been very helpful, as has seaviper. Your elev. and aileron throws and flap/elevator settings I will look forward to. I have yet to maiden her. I hope I have her at your CG now. So many other videos of tail heavy stalls on landing.
Bill (Jetsett on the rcgroups).

[seaviper]

Yeah I just adjust throttle on final using my ears. It may be closer to half throttle than the 20% I mentioned. But I typically reduce throttle to get her to come on down then add some to keep the angle. I never had any problem on any of the four landings.
She came in and flared well like any other jet. Full flaps and all. I was looking for the dreaded pitch up but it didn't happen. I have no elevator -flap mixing. This probably helps keep the nose down on approach and flare. In my humble opinion, a little nose down with flaps is healthy.
Nose up can definitely get you in trouble.

That being said, I removed my afterburner. So I reduced some weight in the tail. Had I not done that, my cg would have been further aft. Who knows?

I am glad I built the 104. It's a really fun jet to fly. I may do another.

[Bill]

Seaviper, do you use take off flaps on your grass runway?

[seaviper]

Yes sir I do. 50% flaps. Takeoff run is a little longer than the T-45. I would say around 150ft approximately. I start adding some back pressure as soon as the bird starts rolling.

Hopefully I can go out and get some better footage this weekend or next. Weather is starting to go downhill here.

Gooniac that was a damn fine landing! Well done sir!

[gooniac33]

Thanks for the kind words guys and glad I can help!

Here is another video from my most recent flying. The newer CG makes it so much easier to handle on landing...

[gooniac33]

And here are some not so nice landings.... wind was crazy the last weekend...

[seaviper]

That's a lot of wind Gooniac. Nice job. That dip on final looked like wind shear to me. We get that here between those trees down on the South end of the runway. I always make sure to come in a little high and /or fast in that area if there is wind. I almost lost the T-45 in the exact same manner. Luckily I saved it. But only just barely.

Man I love this 104. I just ordered a second one to be repainted into the Marineflieger colors. I think she is going to be my main Sunday flier.