Official Freewing 90mm F-104 Starfighter Thread

[urrl]

You are much braver than me Gooniac. I don't usually fly unless there is no wind or it is at least in a favorable head wind, especially with an F-104.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vU-rkqTZPZU&t=12s

[seaviper]

My maiden and next three flights had a crosswind. The F-104 handled it fine.

Urrl I grew up flying at Markham. Started flying there back in 1993.

[gooniac33]

I much prefer to fly this plane in the wind. Not totally sure why but I just do...

I got some new batteries and tried them out after breaking them in. Here are the flights...

[seaviper]

I would much rather fly this bird than the A-4 in the wind.

Mine is still waiting to be re-assembled. I took it down to repaint some parts and ended up repainting the entire bird. Anyway, she should be back in the air soon. I also bought another one because I like this one so much.
The other bird will fly in the stock USAF scheme. The JaboG 32 paint has now been redone into an MFG1 scheme. I wasn't diggin the camo.

There were drastic differences in quality between my first F-104 and the latest. I repainted the first one because I had to fix so many things on it. The second one looks perfect out of the box.
I did do the carbon rod mod on the first one. And the second bird will get the carbon mod also.

[urrl]

Morning flight

[gooniac33]

Lots of flights this weekend. Got some radar runs in as well... take a look

[seaviper]

Is the 90mm F-104 discontinued? I can't find it today on the site

[TiredIronGRB]

Is the 90mm F-104 discontinued? I can't find it today on the site

It's strange, it's been coming and going for days.

[Grossman56]

Its a 'Be right Back" kind of thing, Stand by....

Grossman56

[seaviper]

Got mine repainted finally. Now just waiting on the weather. I want to go build some jet time before the F-4 arrives.

[seaviper]

Flew the F-104 today in theMarinefliegergerschwader 1 scheme. 1st flight after total re-build and re-paint. 5th flight on the airframe. Gyro at about 20% all channels.
Conditions were windy with a gray sky. Also I had to slam dunk the approach over a line of trees. I think I came in a bit too hot. Still have to get used to the bird. But she's a keeper!

Stock power. My buddy didn't film the takeoff. But she got off in about 150ft or less. Most of the flight you see on the video was done at 50% throttle. This was a test flight and I was rusty.

edit: He DID get the takeoff...on the helmet cam though and it's not so clear. But, the 104 got off a wet grass runway in about 125ft. Pretty dang good for a stock bird that's been repainted twice!

edit:
During this flight I observed no wing wag at any speed. I did a full deflection aileron roll with no oscillation observed at termination. This was a windy day. If you are getting oscillations on your 104, check that the gyro settings are not too low nor too high. My channel travels are all 100% except elevator which is limited to 80% down to avoid rudder. Gyro at approx 20-30% each channel

[Bill]

Flew the F-104 today in theMarinefliegergerschwader 1 scheme. 1st flight after total re-build and re-paint. 5th flight on the airframe. Gyro at about 20% all channels.
Conditions were windy with a gray sky. Also I had to slam dunk the approach over a line of trees. I think I came in a bit too hot. Still have to get used to the bird. But she's a keeper!

Stock power. My buddy didn't film the takeoff. But she got off in about 150ft or less. Most of the flight you see on the video was done at 50% throttle. This was a test flight and I was rusty.

edit: He DID get the takeoff...on the helmet cam though and it's not so clear. But, the 104 got off a wet grass runway in about 125ft. Pretty dang good for a stock bird that's been repainted twice!

edit:
During this flight I observed no wing wag at any speed. I did a full deflection aileron roll with no oscillation observed at termination. This was a windy day. If you are getting oscillations on your 104, check that the gyro settings are not too low nor too high. My channel travels are all 100% except elevator which is limited to 80% down to avoid rudder. Gyro at approx 20-30% each channel

Seaviper, did you notice wing oscillations with the gear down? I have my gyro set about 20% on all. I get no wing wag with gear up, but notice some wag with gear down.

[seaviper]

Negative sir. Where is your cg?

Also, check your control throws. If you have the throws dialed down, you might need to increase the gyro settings slightly.

another thing you might look at is expo. Im running 30% with full travel. You might want to reduce you expo a little if you are running reduced throws.

my cg is about a fingertip BEHIND the book value with gear down. With gear up its just about right on the book value.

[Bill]

Negative sir. Where is your cg?

Also, check your control throws. If you have the throws dialed down, you might need to increase the gyro settings slightly.

another thing you might look at is expo. Im running 30% with full travel. You might want to reduce you expo a little if you are running reduced throws.

my cg is about a fingertip BEHIND the book value with gear down. With gear up its just about right on the book value.

Thanks for your reply.
my CG is about at the forward wing screws with the gear down. Not sure how that measures as far as the book CG. My throws are dialed down some, especially the ailerons. Expo at 30%.
My wing rock occurs only with the gear down in level flight with no control surface input. Oh wait, the gyro is actively giving input. Is that what you mean? I never considered that.
Thanks again, I have some adjusting to try.

[seaviper]

Well, when the nose gets pushed by some wind, the gyro reacts. The gyro may be reacting enough at high speed. But at low speed (gear out) it may need a bit more influence to stop the rocking. That's why I would look at gyro settings.

Let us know if you get it fixed.

Edit: after reading all I could on the gyro, I do not think it even cares about travel or expo as far as response goes. It just does it's own thing based on the gain setting you dial in.

[themudduck]

Rockin' and Rolling.... Hey guys I've been corresponding with Seaviper a bit, and decided to do some testing regarding the ailerons and the Gyro. Really interesting, if you'll bear with me because this is a bit geeky (how in the hell did this post get so long!).

I've been flying the F104 all last season.
I had originally set up my F104 with the pushrods in the outer holes of the aileron horns, and the throw was way too much. Since the model is pretty sensitive to ailerons I reduced the control throw using the radio. I have my radio set to 60% on the ailerons and I have 22mm of throw set. (22mm each way). Its a good flyer at that position.... its still pretty sensitive but I like those fast aileron rolls when I use full aileron! And I fly with about 30% expo to help smooth things out.
I love flying the plane. For all of three minutes at a time LOL

Anyway I haven't found the right setting for the gyro. I started with the dials centered. Its turned down pretty low now. If you look at the tiny dial, the aileron is set between the 9 and 10 o'clock position. I find that when I am coming in for landing, the plane rocks pretty severely even when there isn't much wind. It seems like its too sensitive. Is it moving too much or too little?

Seaviper suggested that he thought the gyro doesn't have any connection to the radio settings. So I did some tests. I turned on the model, waited a minute for the gyro to figure out where it was at. Then I picked up the plane and rocked it from side to side pretty vigorously. The ailerons moved about 3mm (the width of the foam, roughly) each way.

Then I went to the radio and reset the aileron travel to 100% throw. Now I have 32mm of throw! Looks like 45 degrees!
So I would expect to see that the throw would also increase on the gyro.

So I did the same test, and rocked the plane. Well, I found that the gyro moved the ailerons exactly the same amount as before. So its true - the gyro is doing its own thing regardless of the radio setting. - and I agree with Seaviper, there probably is NO exponential in what the gyro is doing as well.

So in other words, if I reduce the throws on the radio, the gyro doesn't care and will keep operating on "full rate".

Of course I can turn the gyro down further, but its already turned down pretty far and you don't get a lot of "fine tuning control" with those tiny pots.

So now I am thinking that I should try changing the pushrod to an inner hole on the servo arm, that will reduce the control throw mechanically.
And the gyro throw will also be reduced mechanically. So for the same gyro setting I will have less throw than before.

If I reset my model this way, I will end up with a higher throw on the radio to get the same 22mm throw on the aileron, and the gyro will also have a reduced throw, giving me greater adjustment potential on the gyro pot.
Another benefit - for a given amount of throw on the servo arm, I'll have less movement on the aileron, which will provide "finer" control.

I won't be able to test it until later this Spring (if it ever stops raining) but I think this is good knowledge to have.
<edit> and this morning I have a foot of snow on the ground.

[seaviper]

Sadly I lost my F-104 yesterday. She was flying like a dream. But I was flying at high throttle settings fighting a pretty good wind. Had to do a go-around on first approach because I carried too much speed. Second trip around the pattern I think I got in a good headwind and got bit by LVC. 3:15seconds. She just lost power. I did all I could. I could fix her. She needs a fuselage and a nose gear. But I don't think I'm going to do it.

Chalking it up to pilot error.

[Hardway]

:(

[themudduck]

I'm sorry to hear that. This is a really cool plane but so unforgiving (just like the fullsize one).

[gooniac33]

Sadly I lost my F-104 yesterday. She was flying like a dream. But I was flying at high throttle settings fighting a pretty good wind. Had to do a go-around on first approach because I carried too much speed. Second trip around the pattern I think I got in a good headwind and got bit by LVC. 3:15seconds. She just lost power. I did all I could. I could fix her. She needs a fuselage and a nose gear. But I don't think I'm going to do it.

Chalking it up to pilot error.

Oh no.... so sorry to hear it! I almost lost mine to a similar situation and after that I never flew over on my timer... But then once I switched out the fan unit to the FMS the flight times went up so I have more time to play with...

I also saw another one go down this weekend on its 4th flight... it always hurts...