Official Freewing Twin 80mm/90mm A-10 Thunderbolt II Thread

[Phantom]

I know this thread is about the A-10, which most poster have, but all this battery talk is somewhat related, so I'm going to bring into this thread something that Hugh and I have talked about by PM. I think we all want performance from our batteries in terms of "punch" but flight time is also of importance although for me, flight time is secondary.
These HobbyStars seem to be impressive and the fact that the 8000 is small enough to fit our planes while still giving decent flight times, is even more appealing. However, one still have to give due consideration to "value". In this mix, we've been talking about HobbyStar and Roaring Top, high C rated LiPos. So as to compare oranges with oranges, one should restrict to similar MAH size. Since HS and RT don't have 8000s, let's just stick with around 5000, 70C. Both of these are in the $110.00 range. (The 8000 is around $160.00). Hugh and I have been PMing about the ChinaHobbyLine LiPos and these come in at $80.00 for a 5000 and $99.00 for a 6000. Please keep in mind that I'm not peddling these things and I'm not going to tell you that so-n-so is going to "hook you up", just that I've tried some of late and they seem to be very good value (money for what you get) and what you get seems to perform just as good as my old standby "semi-premium" Gens Ace (at 50C). I'm still waiting for Hugh to take the bait and try a couple and come back to us with his review numbers. Although I'm reluctant to pay for the 8000mah HS, I may give the 6000mah CHL a go when I need more batteries.

Xviper,
I have quite a few of the CNHL lipos, my favorites are the black series 5000mah 4s 65C, I use them in my 8s FW YAK-130. I also have 2 of the 6000mah 6s 70C G+plus with the white shrink wrap on them. I bought then for my FW A-10 80mm, so if I may warn you, they are trash. I get just as much flight time with my 5000mah lipos, no discernible punch powerwise in flight or on the watt meter, the cells became very uneven after only the first 24 cycles, and to top it off, they are HUGE and HEAVY! The A-10 and the Flexjet are the only birds I have that can carry them, and I've got most of MRC's lineup plus quite a few othet EDF's.

[Hugh Wiedman]

I know this thread is about the A-10, which most poster have, but all this battery talk is somewhat related, so I'm going to bring into this thread something that Hugh and I have talked about by PM. I think we all want performance from our batteries in terms of "punch" but flight time is also of importance although for me, flight time is secondary.
These HobbyStars seem to be impressive and the fact that the 8000 is small enough to fit our planes while still giving decent flight times, is even more appealing. However, one still have to give due consideration to "value". In this mix, we've been talking about HobbyStar and Roaring Top, high C rated LiPos. So as to compare oranges with oranges, one should restrict to similar MAH size. Since HS and RT don't have 8000s, let's just stick with around 5000, 70C. Both of these are in the $110.00 range. (The 8000 is around $160.00). Hugh and I have been PMing about the ChinaHobbyLine LiPos and these come in at $80.00 for a 5000 and $99.00 for a 6000. Please keep in mind that I'm not peddling these things and I'm not going to tell you that so-n-so is going to "hook you up", just that I've tried some of late and they seem to be very good value (money for what you get) and what you get seems to perform just as good as my old standby "semi-premium" Gens Ace (at 50C). I'm still waiting for Hugh to take the bait and try a couple and come back to us with his review numbers. Although I'm reluctant to pay for the 8000mah HS, I may give the 6000mah CHL a go when I need more batteries.

I should be getting the HS 8000's in by the end of the week and I also got a few HRB 6000 50C coming by next Sunday (that supposedly have a 100C outburst), so we'll see what the meter says. Brinka is a good friend and amazing EDF pilot (he maidened my F-18 Canadian and others) and he uses nothing but HRB's. I tested one of his at the field and it had a decent C rating compared to what the label was so can't wait to put all these on the IR meter and power meters. I may not be able to tell you what the exact true C is, but I will definitely be able to determine which battery does have a higher C and how they relate to different brands. Until then......

[Warthog]

I'm glad I bought my supply!

[Hugh Wiedman]

I'm glad I bought my supply!

Holy Cow, 8 of them! I thought I was "breaking the bank" getting 4. Any chance you're looking to adopt another son, even one a bit over the hill? I clean up real nice.

[sam51401]

Holy cow, your CC just melted on that purchase, even if you had split them.

[Warthog]

My wife just said "Good bye, I hope you'll be happy together"! LOL

[sam51401]

FYI for all of you on some test numbers i just pulled on the stock A10 power system. I used an Astro Flight Watt meter plugged inline on E2.
A10 is stock drive system using RT 6250 35c 6s. The packs are roughly 2 years old as i bought them used from Andy direct or Sean, cant remember which.
Any way i took some readings while at storage charge and when fully charged. Then I charge to 4.2v/cell on a iCharger 3010. Same unit i took the resistance readings from also.
Test battery at rest storage voltage/resistance
1 3.8/2
2 3.8/2
3 3.8/2
4 3.79/2
5 3.74/2
6 3.74/2

Charged state
1 4.21/2
2 4.21/2
3 4.21/1
4 4.21/2
5 4.21/2
6 4.20/2 V= 25.24

I plugged the meter inline with E2 which does not have any other load other than the fan unit.
Meter readings
V= 25.35 0%
Initial full throttle
100% V=22.63, 69.61A, 1575 W
30 sec @100% V=21.95, 69.61A, 1525 W .728 AH
reduced roughly to 50% throttle
V= 22.72, 48.83A, 1109W for around 30sec at 1/2 to 2/3 throttle then up to 100% after 30 sec
V+21.64, 69.61A, 1507W, 1.395 AH used.

[Warthog]

I'm looking for a bad Lectron Pro 6S 6500mAh 100C battery. A dead cell or two won't hurt. Thanks.

[RC30Flyer]

About to purchase my first A-10... I see the upgraded landing gear, but does this jet need all 3, or just replacing the mains be sufficient?

[Elbee]

RC30Flyer, The NG upgrade can be beneficial if you're 'Grass Ops' more than hard surface. Also, way, way back in this thread you'll find a few posts by "Tired Iron" on "reversing the Main Gear" left to right and front to back. Think about it as you're taking these off the bird as it can get a bit confusing. Also a good time to paint the struts if you are so inclined. I fly from asphalt so I did not upgrade the NG, but did reverse the mains. Since, I have little to none "Bronco" hop landings and when I have it has been on me not the airframe. Best, LB

[RC30Flyer]

Elbee thanks... I think just for my sake since I may fly from grass I will do the mains only. I've also been reading about nose gear mounts failing and having to carve or cut the nose to service the gear mount? Have any experience with that?

[Elbee]

None to date, however, I bent a Main Wheel axle (pilot error). I did 3DP print and install the NG Brace from somewhere earlier in this thread. I do not recall who designed it, maybe crxmanpat ??? If I can find it in my files I will post it again here. No promises...LOL Best, LB

[Phantom]

About to purchase my first A-10... I see the upgraded landing gear, but does this jet need all 3, or just replacing the mains be sufficient?

I just upgraded the mains not the nose gear, I fly her off pavement.

Anyone can feel free to jump in here if I'm stating incorrectly, but I believe the consensus on this thread is upgrade the mains for pavement, upgrade the nose for grass, as the stock mains suck up the bumps of grass ops better than the upgraded mains.

No matter what you do with the gear, moving the CG back 15 to 20mm from what the manual calls for is key to eliminating the bronco tendencies altogether.

[Warthog]

Yes Phantom, that really worked on mine. I wonder when MRC will get these A-10s back in stock.//// Never mind, they are back in stock! I just checked.

[Twowingtj]

Has anyone noticed the A-10 in arctic camo in the banner at the top of Hobby Squawk? Is it possible that it's a new livery for the 80mm with inrunners? That would be sweet for sure.

It's not the Roban.

[Hugh Wiedman]

FYI for all of you on some test numbers i just pulled on the stock A10 power system. I used an Astro Flight Watt meter plugged inline on E2.
A10 is stock drive system using RT 6250 35c 6s. The packs are roughly 2 years old as i bought them used from Andy direct or Sean, cant remember which.
Any way i took some readings while at storage charge and when fully charged. Then I charge to 4.2v/cell on a iCharger 3010. Same unit i took the resistance readings from also.
Test battery at rest storage voltage/resistance
1 3.8/2
2 3.8/2
3 3.8/2
4 3.79/2
5 3.74/2
6 3.74/2

Charged state
1 4.21/2
2 4.21/2
3 4.21/1
4 4.21/2
5 4.21/2
6 4.20/2 V= 25.24

I plugged the meter inline with E2 which does not have any other load other than the fan unit.
Meter readings
V= 25.35 0%
Initial full throttle
100% V=22.63, 69.61A, 1575 W
30 sec @100% V=21.95, 69.61A, 1525 W .728 AH
reduced roughly to 50% throttle
V= 22.72, 48.83A, 1109W for around 30sec at 1/2 to 2/3 throttle then up to 100% after 30 sec
V+21.64, 69.61A, 1507W, 1.395 AH used.

sam51401 sorry for the late response but for some reason, those power readings seem a little low but I may be off base. I don't know a lot about EDF's but have tested all the ones I have (5-90 mm, 1-80 mm and a twin 70 mm) the same way. So obviously forget my readings on all the 90's and the twin 70, but the only 80 mm I have is the 9 blade InRunner 3658-1857 Kv in the Avanti. I assume you have the stock 9 blade 3530-1900 Kv outrunner in the A-10 (or the 1850Kv one). The 3658-1857 Kv I have, with a RT 6250 as you used, produces 100.6 Ah and 2424 Watts at full charge, full throttle, significantly above the 69.61 Ah and 1575 Watts you measured on your A-10. The Avanti has a 100 amp ESC and the A-10 only 2 80 amp ESC's (so that says something right there in how FW sized their ESC's but I don't know what), so I am surprised to see such a large difference in power readings between two 80 mm fans that seem to have similar ratings, even though one is an inrunner.

As I understand motor ratings (which obviously I really don't) the first number is the size of the motor so a 3658 is 36mmX58mm. The second is the RPM's per volt. So obviously the inrunner is quite a bit longer than the outrunner. However, in the 90 mm inrunners and outrunners I tested, the inrunners did poduce higher power readings, but generally by only a few 100 Watts. If any of this is accurate, then I would assume the 80 mm in the A-10 and the 80 mm in the Avanti should have had somewhat similar power draw readings, but not a difference of some 850 Watts or 54%. What am I missing here. I had similar readings using a RT 6250/RT5500/HRB600/Admiral6000 (ranged from 2460 Watts to low of 2152 Watts depending on battery and the actual C), but nothing as low as 1575 Watts.

Any help in understanding EDF's and their ratings would be appreciated. I'm getting ready to pull the trigger on an A-10 since it looks like we're headed for "LockDown #2" and just want to get an idea of what to expect. Just direct it to dazed and confused in the South.

[Aros]

Has anyone noticed the A-10 in arctic camo in the banner at the top of Hobby Squawk? Is it possible that it's a new livery for the 80mm with inrunners? That would be sweet for sure. It's not the Roban.

I can definitively answer this question since it's a photo of my A-10 I repainted as the Arctic Camo scheme. Sorry about getting your hopes up!

[Warthog]

Looking to buy a sound system. Ideas? Never mind, I bought the Shock Wave 3.

[sam51401]

Hugh, I believe you hit the nail in giving a real world comparison between a inrunner and a outrunner EDF. I did the test to give Danny at SMC Racing some idea of what a EDF pulls. This is just a gauge for just the A10 as I’m looking at trying a set of his 8000ma flight packs in the hog. He is primarily geared toward the truggy hobby side of large trucks and buggy’s so he wanted some base points to use. Thanks for posting your readings and maybe others can validate or throw more numbers out to see if mine or skewed or more inline with the stock setup as actual levels.

[Twowingtj]

I can definitively answer this question since it's a photo of my A-10 I repainted as the Arctic Camo scheme. Sorry about getting your hopes up!

You've got to admit that a "High Performance" 80mm A-10 in arctic camo with 1920kv 9-blade in-runners would be a nice addition to the Freewing EDF line-up.

Your repaint looks awesome on the banner.

[Aros]

Thanks and I would most definitely agree on a HP Arctic version!