Official Freewing Twin 80mm/90mm A-10 Thunderbolt II Thread

[Gringotuerto]

Maiden flights completed this morning... it has been like 10 years since I flown ANYTHING

Wow, congratulations. You are fearless, jumping back in with a large EDF jet. Glad it went well!

[Splat]

Wow, congratulations. You are fearless, jumping back in with a large EDF jet. Glad it went well!

I figured it's like riding a bike right? lol Not going to lie, my heart rate was certainly high but the rush after completing those two flights was well worth it!

Much thanks to everyone here for the help, I think each flight will get better and better now that I can tweak little things here and there. Still have to play with the CG and the elevator trim and expo to get her dialed in and shorten that take off run lol. I have those 12 bladed fans sitting on the shelf too that might call for a upgrade to inrunners down the road. Loving this bird.

[crxmanpat]

I say stick with the 9-blades, the 12-blades are less efficient. If you really want an upgrade, get a pair of the T-33 fans/motors. These are inrunner 9-blades and will give you more grunt on takeoff.

[Splat]

I say stick with the 9-blades, the 12-blades are less efficient. If you really want an upgrade, get a pair of the T-33 fans/motors. These are inrunner 9-blades and will give you more grunt on takeoff.

Isn't the T-33 9 blade fan the same as the fan that is in the A-10 right now? I could just buy two of the 3658-1920kV Inrunner'sand swap the motors out yeah?

[DCORSAIR]

Isn't the T-33 9 blade fan the same as the fan that is in the A-10 right now? I could just buy two of the 3658-1920kV Inrunner'sand swap the motors out yeah?

I know on the 90mm fans you can't mount the inrunner motors to the outrunner fans, I think its the same way with the 80mm inrunner motors as well, you have to use inrunner with inrunner fan parts, I could be wrong and maybe someone has done it but double check before you buy the inrunner motors.

[crxmanpat]

They are completely separate fans. Even though they are both 9-blade, the A-10 uses outrunner motors, and the T-33 uses an inrunner.

[evensen007]

I figured it's like riding a bike right? lol Not going to lie, my heart rate was certainly high but the rush after completing those two flights was well worth it!

Much thanks to everyone here for the help, I think each flight will get better and better now that I can tweak little things here and there. Still have to play with the CG and the elevator trim and expo to get her dialed in and shorten that take off run lol. I have those 12 bladed fans sitting on the shelf too that might call for a upgrade to inrunners down the road. Loving this bird.

Probably going to maiden mine today on the HRB 6000's (810grams), and wondered where you CG'd that made it feel too nose heavy leading to a long take off. Should I not go by book CG on the maiden, or is the general consensus to move it back a bit?

[crxmanpat]

Probably going to maiden mine today on the HRB 6000's (810grams), and wondered where you CG'd that made it feel too nose heavy leading to a long take off. Should I not go by book CG on the maiden, or is the general consensus to move it back a bit?

The consensus is that the book CG 78mm is too nose heavy. It will fly fine there, but you really have to be on top of your landings to keep the nose up. Most of us have moved the CG back to 85-90mm. I've found 86mm to be the sweet spot.

[evensen007]

The consensus is that the book CG 78mm is too nose heavy. It will fly fine there, but you really have to be on top of your landings to keep the nose up. Most of us have moved the CG back to 85-90mm. I've found 86mm to be the sweet spot.

Thanks Pat! Will see how it goes pushed back in that 85-90 range.

[Splat]

Probably going to maiden mine today on the HRB 6000's (810grams), and wondered where you CG'd that made it feel too nose heavy leading to a long take off. Should I not go by book CG on the maiden, or is the general consensus to move it back a bit?

My CG is approx 80 to 83mm and I think I might even move it back more to the 86mm that Pat mentioned. Good luck on the maiden!

[Gringotuerto]

I've found 86mm to be the sweet spot.

+2. I also use ~86mm, and another guy at our club reached the same conclusion independently.

Generally speaking I've found the instructions from MotionRC to be : (a) overly cautious on CG; (b) overly crazy on aileron throw. I start with aileron throws at 50% of the manual and work up from there. I start CG at the manual-specified point (unless I've got solid info that it is safe to go aft) and work back from there.

[Splat]

Yeah the aileron throws are pretty crazy which brings me to a question...

So I dialed in -30% expo on all control surfaces on my Futaba T6K radio after I saw a video online somewhere...is negative expo what I want to be doing or is it positive 30%?

Also getting back to those T33 fans/motors...do they just drop into the A-10 nacelles pretty easily. I mean I assume they are the same fit as the stock 80mm fans in her now?

[DCORSAIR]

Yeah the aileron throws are pretty crazy which brings me to a question...

So I dialed in -30% expo on all control surfaces on my Futaba T6K radio after I saw a video online somewhere...is negative expo what I want to be doing or is it positive 30%?

Also getting back to those T33 fans/motors...do they just drop into the A-10 nacelles pretty easily. I mean I assume they are the same fit as the stock 80mm fans in her now?

I can't answer the fan question because I haven't changed the fans on the one I had, but on your Futaba expo question, on my Futaba 7C it was neg, but you have an newer radio than me so I'm not 100% sure, to make sure, put a higher number than 30% and you will be able to tell if your going the right way, then put it back where you want it once you have it figured out, you will notice the softness in the movement from center when giving input, if your still not sure put a large amount of pos. and see how fast the ailerons move. I'm not an expo user but I did try it one time on my FW F-4 Phantom and it was neg to get less movement, I could be wrong here so double check it.

[evensen007]

Given that I'm still a bit green, I'm trying to keep things as simple as possible by having my aileron and elevator dual rate linked on the same switch. I'm running an ix12. I hear you that the ail throws are insane. I've measured them and set them per the manual, so I was thinking of setting my base/standard setting for ail/ele to 60/90. I'm going on the assumption here that this big bird needs all the elevator throws you can give it. Then my higher rate will be 75/100 for the second switch position. I will take-off, trim, and land in the base 60/90 throws to start with. Does this seem solid/reasonable? Did you need to mix in any elevator with the flaps deployed at either half or full?

Would also appreciate if someone with the HRB 6000 batteries could post a picture showing how you have your batteries set. I can't really get the canopy closed no matter what I try. Did you carve foam?

[xviper]

Given that I'm still a bit green, I'm trying to keep things as simple as possible by having my aileron and elevator dual rate linked on the same switch. I'm running an ix12. I hear you that the ail throws are insane. I've measured them and set them per the manual, so I was thinking of setting my base/standard setting for ail/ele to 60/90. I'm going on the assumption here that this big bird needs all the elevator throws you can give it. Then my higher rate will be 75/100 for the second switch position. I will take-off, trim, and land in the base 60/90 throws to start with. Does this seem solid/reasonable? Did you need to mix in any elevator with the flaps deployed at either half or full?

Would also appreciate if someone with the HRB 6000 batteries could post a picture showing how you have your batteries set. I can't really get the canopy closed no matter what I try. Did you carve foam?

I have the opposite experience than you regarding the rates on the AIL and ELE. On my A-10, I find I need much higher throws on the AIL to make it roll easily due it being such a big, heavy plane. I also find that the ELE is very sensitive, especially during landing that I need to use a very low throw or it becomes a roller coaster ride coming in. However, I do need a higher ELE throw to rotate on take off.
I can't say about the HRB 6000. If it's anything like my 5000mah Turnigy Heavy Duty or ChinaHobby Line or Revolectrix (all about the same size), I cannot close the canopy. I would have to auger out quite a bit of foam in order to close it. Hence, I don't use those batteries in favour of the much smaller Gens Ace 5000's and the first gen of Admiral 5000's. The new gen of Admiral come in a much different shape so I can't say if they'll go in and allow the canopy to close.

[evensen007]

I have the opposite experience than you regarding the rates on the AIL and ELE. On my A-10, I find I need much higher throws on the AIL to make it roll easily due it being such a big, heavy plane. I also find that the ELE is very sensitive, especially during landing that I need to use a very low throw or it becomes a roller coaster ride coming in. However, I do need a higher ELE throw to rotate on take off.
I can't say about the HRB 6000. If it's anything like my 5000mah Turnigy Heavy Duty or ChinaHobby Line or Revolectrix (all about the same size), I cannot close the canopy. I would have to auger out quite a bit of foam in order to close it. Hence, I don't use those batteries in favour of the much smaller Gens Ace 5000's and the first gen of Admiral 5000's. The new gen of Admiral come in a much different shape so I can't say if they'll go in and allow the canopy to close.

Oh, great. I had bought them based on some people in this thread recommending them. hah. Hope someone else chimes in that has 2 large batteries in there. Someone was talking about using 8000's, so there's gotta be a way! In regard to the ail/ele, that was directed at the poster above that said the ailerons were insanely touchy. Now I'm not really sure how to set the rates. I might just leave them at 100 and chop them to 65% for the lower rates.

[ParaCanary]

Yeah the aileron throws are pretty crazy which brings me to a question...

So I dialed in -30% expo on all control surfaces on my Futaba T6K radio after I saw a video online somewhere...is negative expo what I want to be doing or is it positive 30%?

Also getting back to those T33 fans/motors...do they just drop into the A-10 nacelles pretty easily. I mean I assume they are the same fit as the stock 80mm fans in her now?

I upgraded to the T33 inrunners on my A10. The reason was that I threw a magnet in one of the outrunners. The inrunners drop right in with some fiddling. The 3 motor wires are a little longer but can be made to fit under the clear plastic by folding the wires. Motors are slightly heavier so the CG will have to be adjusted. What you gain is 4 mph full throttle on gps and my impression is longer flight times. The sound is a little more high pitched. The inrunners sounded a little out of balance. This was corrected by 4stipes method of holding the motor and rotating the impeller and screw cap. I modified this by using the dynex dynamic balancer without a cradle. I left the motors mounted in the a10 and placed the sensor on top of the fan. I could feel slight vibrations at 30% throttle. I was able to get a .3 mv imbalance wave which I got down to .08 mv by just rotating the impeller. Vibration with my finger was completely gone Subjectively full throttle sounded better.

[xviper]

Oh, great. I had bought them based on some people in this thread recommending them. hah. Hope someone else chimes in that has 2 large batteries in there. Someone was talking about using 8000's, so there's gotta be a way! In regard to the ail/ele, that was directed at the poster above that said the ailerons were insanely touchy. Now I'm not really sure how to set the rates. I might just leave them at 100 and chop them to 65% for the lower rates.

Those 8000's are the "HobbyStars" purchased off Amazon. They are exceptionally small in dimension and weight for their claimed mah. If you go to each of those batteries' webpage, you will see the dimensions for them. The HD dimensions are 146 x 51 x 57mm (51mm being the limiting height).Those 6000 HRBs are 155x48x54mm (48mm being the limiting height). I know for a fact that the HD will not allow the canopy to close if placed on the front battery tray (over the nose retract). Since there's only a 3mm difference (and 50g difference), I can see that the HRB won't allow the canopy to close either. Now, if somehow you can place the front battery on the main floor (lower) and get the rear battery far enough to the rear, you may be able to balance, but I think that may be a trick. I've tried that with the smaller Gen Ace 5000's, with the control box unscrewed and moved way back to the rear wall and the plane is still quite tail heavy. It just seems to need one battery on the front upper tray to balance. You may have better luck than me. Of course, you can carve out a bit of foam and still have a solid canopy.

[evensen007]

Those 8000's are the "HobbyStars" purchased off Amazon. They are exceptionally small in dimension and weight for their claimed mah. If you go to each of those batteries' webpage, you will see the dimensions for them. The HD dimensions are 146 x 51 x 57mm (51mm being the limiting height).Those 6000 HRBs are 155x48x54mm (48mm being the limiting height). I know for a fact that the HD will not allow the canopy to close if placed on the front battery tray (over the nose retract). Since there's only a 3mm difference (and 50g difference), I can see that the HRB won't allow the canopy to close either. Now, if somehow you can place the front battery on the main floor (lower) and get the rear battery far enough to the rear, you may be able to balance, but I think that may be a trick. I've tried that with the smaller Gen Ace 5000's, with the control box unscrewed and moved way back to the rear wall and the plane is still quite tail heavy. It just seems to need one battery on the front upper tray to balance. You may have better luck than me. Of course, you can carve out a bit of foam and still have a solid canopy.

Well, I was able to finagle the HRB's just so and get the canopy to close. The issue is, I may be trying to CG the plane incorrectly. Even going by the book CG, placing my to pointer fingers under the wing where that CG point is, the plane tanks HARD towards the nose. Am I supposed to CG it upside down; does it matter? Going by the stated 85-90mmCG point, the plane still drops to the nose. On a big bird like this, what's your CG checking trick? I feel like I'm not doing it right if i have those 2 giant HRB's in there pushed back as far as they can possibly go (rear battery is touching wires on control board) and it's still very nose heavy.

[crxmanpat]

Upside down, gear extended. You want to be close to the 85-86mm mark, not the 78mm called for in the book. Also, move the wire junction board back to the two rear mounting holes so that you can shift the batteries aft a little more.