Official Freewing Twin 80mm/90mm A-10 Thunderbolt II Thread

[evensen007]

Well..... Not good. I come back humbled and disappointed in myself. I guess flying a big heavy EDF is nothing like a warbird and apparently the skills don't even mildly translate for me. I took off of our geo-tex runway and this pig used almost every foot of the 275 feet. I didn't think it was even going to make it off the runway. I spent about 3 minutes just trying to get a lay of the land and trim it out. I finally trimmed her, but never really got a good feeling. She flew HEAVY. I felt like I needed almost full throttle to move her around. I've never flown a jet so maybe that's just how it is. It's also kinda a blur considering how it ended, so my perception may be off. I came in for a test landing pass and aborted because I wasn't used to the speed you need to bring this in on. I ate up almost half the runway so I went around for another. I'm not even really sure what happened here, but I stuck the grass right before the runway which actually didn't seem to hurt things too badly, but all of the sudden it did the bucking bronco and she shot into the air and smacked back down before I had enough thrust to get her back up.

I'm gutted. I've got pieces I don't even know how to begin to put back together and fix. I broke the left main, front retract, front gear door, all wires are split, and lots of foam around those parts. I've been thinking hard about what I should have done but honestly I couldn't get used to the way she was flying. It wasn't that out of control too fast feeling people talk about. She just seemed HEAVY. Not sure what to think at this point. Sorry for the cussing at the end of the video. It was just kinda of a reflex. I wasn't mad, just really really sad. Oh well.

Here's the absolute total carnage at the end of this clip:

https://photos.app.goo.gl/yPzvLhGwF4p2WJVy5

[Waconut]

Bummer,
Now you are making me nervous. I am planning on putting the maiden on mine this Sunday. I do have a 800 ft grass strip to use at the club field.
Sorry about your loss.
Anthony

[xviper]

That's really a sad ending to what should have been a wonderful experience. 275 feet of GeoTex should have been plenty to take off. I fly off the same surface and this A-10 can lift off in about 200 feet and it doesn't even take 275 to get off grass. They say that hindsight is 20/20 .............................................. Did you use 1/2 flaps for take off? Did you have high rates on the ELE for the rotation? Again, in hindsight, I don't think an A-10 like this makes a good first EDF. It's big, heavy and not exactly cheap and it doesn't even really fly like most other EDFs that I have. So sorry for what you just went through.

[evensen007]

Bummer,
Now you are making me nervous. I am planning on putting the maiden on mine this Sunday. I do have a 800 ft grass strip to use at the club field.
Sorry about your loss.
Anthony

Don't be nervous, I might just be a ****e pilot. Splat maidened his after not flying for years without any issue so you'll probably be just fine.

[crxmanpat]

Sorry to hear about the poor maiden. A few things:

Did you calibrate the ESCs to your throttle? If she felt "heavy" it's possible you weren't seeing full thrust. This thing is way overpowered and can fly easily at 1/4 throttle once on step.

You really need to slow this bird down on landing, but you can't chop the throttle completely and glide it in like on some warbirds. A good approach with full flaps and at least 1/4 throttle will allow this thing to slow down nicely for landing. All you have to do is keep the nose up and then use throttle to control the descent until touchdown.

[evensen007]

That's really a sad ending to what should have been a wonderful experience. 275 feet of GeoTex should have been plenty to take off. I fly off the same surface and this A-10 can lift off in about 200 feet and it doesn't even take 275 to get off grass. They say that hindsight is 20/20 .............................................. Did you use 1/2 flaps for take off? Did you have high rates on the ELE for the rotation? Again, in hindsight, I don't think an A-10 like this makes a good first EDF. It's big, heavy and not exactly cheap and it doesn't even really fly like most other EDFs that I have. So sorry for what you just went through.

I used full flaps for takeoff. I was in high rates for ail and ele the whole time because I felt like I needed all the throws. Looking at that video of the landing.... WTH!? What did I do there that caused it to hit the world's most powerful trampoline?

[evensen007]

Sorry to hear about the poor maiden. A few things:

Did you calibrate the ESCs to your throttle? If she felt "heavy" it's possible you weren't seeing full thrust. This thing is way overpowered and can fly easily at 1/4 throttle once on step.

You really need to slow this bird down on landing, but you can't chop the throttle completely and glide it in like on some warbirds. A good approach with full flaps and at least 1/4 throttle will allow this thing to slow down nicely for landing. All you have to do is keep the nose up and then use throttle to control the descent until touchdown.

I did calibrate the esc's. At one point I had to re-bind the plane, but that wouldn't have affected the ESC's right? Also, the hrb 6000's were burning hot after the flight, so they were working. I came in just as you said with full flaps and about 1/4 throttle. I guess I didn't get the nose flare at the end. Sheesh, she's ornery!

[Waconut]

To me it looks like the plane was not in a nose high attitude when you touched down. These things are notorious to propose on landing if you touch down nose wheel first.
I am watching the video on my phone so I may not be seeing it clearly.

[Aros]

evensen007 man I am so sorry to hear about that. There's a lot of non-judgmental sage advice/questions being asked. We've ALL been there. Like some have said, this is definitely not a jet I would recommend as a first model dipping your toes into the EDF world. Warbirds and jets truly are apples and oranges of the RC model world. She IS heavy, especially if you are used to lower wing loaded warbirds. Two 6S batteries alone tells the story of this bird's AUW. Like what has been mentioned, the main keys are:

1) CG
2) Calibrated ESCs
3) Max elevator throw for pitch authority
4) Half flaps for takeoffs and landings
5) Keeping power on the approach and managing the AoA for a gentle flare/touchdown on the mains

Easier said than done I know. I too had the dreaded Bucking Bronco where I had to replace the nose gear mech on my first flight. That was a joy. I hope you don't get too discouraged and find it in your heart to either repair or replace. She really is worth it. Try some smaller EDFs to get a sense of the flight differences. It won't take long to make your way back to her and you will be rewarded.

[Alpha]

Did I read that right? This is your FIRST jet?

[evensen007]

To me it looks like the plane was not in a nose high attitude when you touched down. These things are notorious to propose on landing if you touch down nose wheel first.
I am watching the video on my phone so I may not be seeing it clearly.

Yea, I think you are right. CLASSIC #1 NO NO on this plane and I knew it. I should have practiced some flare/alpha flying at altitude to get my brain thinking about it and my hands knowing what to do.

evensen007 man I am so sorry to hear about that. There's a lot of non-judgmental sage advice/questions being asked. We've ALL been there. Like some have said, this is definitely not a jet I would recommend as a first model dipping your toes into the EDF world. Warbirds and jets truly are apples and oranges of the RC model world. She IS heavy, especially if you are used to lower wing loaded warbirds. Two 6S batteries alone tells the story of this bird's AUW. Like what has been mentioned, the main keys are:

1) CG
2) Calibrated ESCs
3) Max elevator throw for pitch authority
4) Half flaps for takeoffs and landings
5) Keeping power on the approach and managing the AoA for a gentle flare/touchdown on the mains

Easier said than done I know. I too had the dreaded Bucking Bronco where I had to replace the nose gear mech on my first flight. That was a joy. I hope you don't get too discouraged and find it in your heart to either repair or replace. She really is worth it. Try some smaller EDFs to get a sense of the flight differences. It won't take long to make your way back to her and you will be rewarded.

Thanks. My first crash since I started flying again and what a crash!

1.I had the CG roughly around 82mm. She was a bit nose heavy and I did have to trim some up elevator in.
2. I did calibrate the ESC's unless re-binding the plane reset them again which I dont think it would. They weren't beeping.
3. I had nearly all the elevator throw in my high rates so I think Im good. In the future I won't dial *any* elevator out at all. I had it at 90% for my high rates.
4. I've heard so many different things but I went full flaps for takeoff and landing.
5. This is what I ultimately think I destroyed my plane with (big surprise).

Did I read that right? This is your FIRST jet?

Yep. I thought I could pull it off. I'm a pretty good prop pilot. :/

I'm not too discouraged and the next morning I''m feeling even more determined to get it right. The short time I had flying it was overwhelming in the best of ways. I was truly in awe and need to get back in the air. Looking for suggestions on what to fly first (and while I'm repairing the a-10). I also have an e-flite F4 Phantom sitting on the shelf. I picked both of these jets up local on a field trip. I like the bigger planes and jets so the little 70mm guys never really appealed to me. I would take suggestions on what a good prop pilot should practice on first before coming back to the a-10. I had heard the a-10 wasn't too bad of a first jet, but I guess opinions are like... onions. :) If someones says the new e-flite Habu safe trainer I'm going to barf. 😂

I have just come back to the hobby after 20 years away and got swept back in pretty quickly. Yes, I got over my skis too soon. I had been flying my t-28carbonZ and p-47 the last couple of months to get my sea-legs back. I always wanted to fly jets so I decided I'm at the stage of my life where I can do it. I learned from our local flying club that Steve Hodges (RCJetDude) lived close by. I contacted him and he was the nicest guy and allowed me to come over and see all his planes and he helped me set up the A-10. I had planned to go out to the field with him but I got a wild hair and decided last night I had to get out (I've been cooped up post rotator cuff surgery). He's going to be disappointed I already blew it up. I will slowly assess and repair the a-10, in fact the guy who sold it to me gave me lots of extra retracts and parts so I guess he had some fun landings too. Oh well, it's life and stuff happens! Thanks for the tips and encouragement.

Chris

[Waconut]

evensen007 Don't be too hard on yourself. It looked like you were doing a good job of flying the plane.
I just got back into flying after a 4 year break and bought 5 Freewing jets. I just put my first 3 EDF flights in last weekend. The Avanti is an excellent flying plane and not hard on the wallet. It will also use the same batteries you are using in the A-10.
Your A-10 looks repairable especially with the available spare parts.
Good Luck!!
Anthony

[Splat]

Oh man I am sorry to hear about all this, I had no idea this was your first EDF jet. I might have been away from the hobby for ten years but prior to that break I had owned and flew several EDFs...like others have said I would never have recommended this for a first jet but hey go big or go home right?? Certainly repairable, sucks, but you aren't out a jet.

I had a long take off roll on my first flights too, I havn't flown since my maiden but I will be messing with the CG a little and pushing it back a bit more and mess with the elevator trim to fix that. Watching your video it looked like she was flying fine for a maiden but the landing was certainly too fast and its all about the flare on this jet...gotta land nose up on the mains first. I used full flaps and 1/4 throttle but had her slowed down quite a bit before she touched down. First flight she bounced lightly because I didn't hold that nose, greased the second landing.

Anyway don't be too hard on yourself mate.

[evensen007]

evensen007 Don't be too hard on yourself. It looked like you were doing a good job of flying the plane.
I just got back into flying after a 4 year break and bought 5 Freewing jets. I just put my first 3 EDF flights in last weekend. The Avanti is an excellent flying plane and not hard on the wallet. It will also use the same batteries you are using in the A-10.
Your A-10 looks repairable especially with the available spare parts.
Good Luck!!
Anthony

Thanks Anthony. I looked on Motion's site and all I see for Avanti are the High performance. Is that what you have?

It is certainly repairable; it's just that I've never had to do it before so it's going to take time to figure out what the heck I did and what I need to do.

[evensen007]

Oh man I am sorry to hear about all this, I had no idea this was your first EDF jet. I might have been away from the hobby for ten years but prior to that break I had owned and flew several EDFs...like others have said I would never have recommended this for a first jet but hey go big or go home right?? Certainly repairable, sucks, but you aren't out a jet.

I had a long take off roll on my first flights too, I havn't flown since my maiden but I will be messing with the CG a little and pushing it back a bit more and mess with the elevator trim to fix that. Watching your video it looked like she was flying fine for a maiden but the landing was certainly too fast and its all about the flare on this jet...gotta land nose up on the mains first. I used full flaps and 1/4 throttle but had her slowed down quite a bit before she touched down. First flight she bounced lightly because I didn't hold that nose, greased the second landing.

Anyway don't be too hard on yourself mate.

I had more confidence than skill, that's for sure. I was afraid to slow her down much more than that because of how heavy the plane is. After looking at the video a few more times it's obvious: Too fast, no flair, hitting the grass first didn't help. Argh.

[Waconut]

Thanks Anthony. I looked on Motion's site and all I see for Avanti are the High performance. Is that what you have?

It is certainly repairable; it's just that I've never had to do it before so it's going to take time to figure out what the heck I did and what I need to do.

That is the version I have. It slows down really nice for landing and is a blast to fly. The only thing to watch for is the ailerons are very sensitive set up per the manual. The plane fly’s like it is on rails and handles the wind very well.

[themudduck]

Dear Chris, the flight on your video looked fairly normal to me, and your landing approach looked OK... but when you touched down it definitely hit "nose first" which is a big no-no. Its almost impossible for a spectator to tell what's wrong but to me I think that you were too nose heavy. We've spent a great deal of time here discussing this, so many of us have repeated over and over that you must move the batteries back because of this very problem. In a nose-heavy condition, this model just does not want to flare at lower speeds, and that looks like exactly what happened. A nose-heavy plane will also feel much heavier in the air. On this jet, its especially very important to not be nose-heavy, it is SO much easier to land when its not.

Just a few posts back Phantom was saying that he is flying with the balance point further back than 90mm..... I know that you you saw those posts... but you were at 82. I'm sorry! When I started with this plane I kept bouncing on landing, and ripped the nose gear out twice. Now that its balanced it lands extremely easily. Most of us have had this experience.

Well - Yes you can fix it! You can do it!! Just attack one piece at a time, glue the parts back together and use a quality foam-filler to smooth things out. Then get some color-matched paint from Lowes or Home Depot and repaint! Motion sells the plastic parts if you broke any of those, like the landing gear mounts or the nose gun. I hope that you'll try again.

[themudduck]

Here's a couple of before and after picture of mine, taken while I was fixing it after a friend was landing it and did exactly what you did and ripped out one of the main gears and also destroyed the nose. I had to replace a flap servo and the plastic gear mount on this wing panel. You can also see that ALL of the pylons were ripped out. (yes he's still my friend!)

[Cheffie]

Dear Chris, the flight on your video looked fairly normal to me, and your landing approach looked OK... but when you touched down it definitely hit "nose first" which is a big no-no. Its almost impossible for a spectator to tell what's wrong but to me I think that you were too nose heavy. We've spent a great deal of time here discussing this, so many of us have repeated over and over that you must move the batteries back because of this very problem. In a nose-heavy condition, this model just does not want to flare at lower speeds, and that looks like exactly what happened. A nose-heavy plane will also feel much heavier in the air. On this jet, its especially very important to not be nose-heavy, it is SO much easier to land when its not.

Just a few posts back Phantom was saying that he is flying with the balance point further back than 90mm..... I know that you you saw those posts... but you were at 82. I'm sorry! When I started with this plane I kept bouncing on landing, and ripped the nose gear out twice. Now that its balanced it lands extremely easily. Most of us have had this experience.

Well - Yes you can fix it! You can do it!! Just attack one piece at a time, glue the parts back together and use a quality foam-filler to smooth things out. Then get some color-matched paint from Lowes or Home Depot and repaint! Motion sells the plastic parts if you broke any of those, like the landing gear mounts or the nose gun. I hope that you'll try again.

I had my maiden the other day and I could tell it was nose heavy even though I set it up to the specs in the manual. I decided to check here to see if anyone had changed the CG and my suspicions were correct. I also porpoised on the landing but only suffered minor damage luckily as it didn’t hop too high. Had her slow enough but once it touched down the nose came down hard and caused it to bounce. I guess I should have checked here first but lesson learned.

[Phantom]

I think we've all had to do some major surgery on our A-10's at one time or another, especially prior to figuring out the extreme forward recommended CG.

A wee tid bit for the group, advice on landing your bird where and when you want, instead of wherever it ends up, or having to decide on multiple go arounds due to eating up half your runway on approach.

In the full sized world we call it the circle of action, which before your intended touch down point of landing.

When you shoot your approach, don't set yourself up for the first 1/3 of the runway, that'll have you touchdown well past the half way point. Don't set yourself up for the numbers, if you do, best case scenario you'll touchdown in the first 1/3 of the runway. This turns a 300ft runway into a 200ft runway. I'm sure some have heard that runway behind you is useless too a pilot.

Instead set your circle of action, that is the end of your approach, prior to the runway threshold. If you aim for that point you'll transition to in ground effect at that point and once your bird bleeds off the excess airspeed and is ready for touch down you're over the threshold with a glorious 300ft of runway for your roll out.

Remember planes don't use runways to fly, only to takeoff and land. You don't normally start your take off roll halfway down the runway, so why not land the same place you start?