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Official Freewing Twin 80mm/90mm A-10 Thunderbolt II Thread

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  • Originally posted by Coconut View Post
    Where do you get the SMC's from?
    Direct from SMC Racing: www.smc-racing.com
    Make sure you select the "True Spec V2 Flight packs". Those are fairly accurate on what the actual C is (and don't believe anyone who has a 100C pack unless it weighs about 50 pounds). I've tested about 20 different brands and the SMC's are the best, at least for me (and those are all "swimming with the fishes" now, what a huge waste of money). All others actual C is more like 25%-40% of their advertised C.

    His other batteries are more for the car guys and they have inflated C ratings, only because he has to compete with other manufacturers that all exaggerate the C and he knows that the flight guys don't get suckered in as much on "advertised" C. So don't think because it's ONLY 40C that it's not as good as some others claiming 50-100C. For 6S, the 4500, 5300 and 6200's are top notch. Also check out the weight of these "graphene" batteries, much lighter than other high C batteries. Somewhere on RC Groups there is also a complete analysis done on something like 50 batteries for aircraft and the SMC 6200 is at the top for weight, actual tested C, individual cell amps and price. If you have any questions about the packs, send an e-mail to the owner, Danny Sullivan, and he'll get back to you immediately, he's very customer service oriented.
    Hugh "Wildman" Wiedman
    Hangar: FL/FW: Mig 29 "Cobra", A-10 Arctic, F18 Canadian & Tiger Meet, F16 Wild Weasel, F4 Phantom & Blue Angel, 1600 Corsair & Spitfire, Olive B-24, Stinger 90, Red Avanti. Extreme Flight-FW-190 Red Tulip, Slick 60, 60" Extra 300 V2, 62" MXS Heavy Metal, MXS Green, & Demonstrator. FMS-1700mm P-51, Red Bull Corsair. E-Flite-70mm twin SU-30, Beast Bi-Plane 60", P2 Bi-Plane, P-51.

    Comment


    • Hugh Wiedman You are a fountain of sage wisdom and truth. Thank you for all that you do, Sir. Best, LB
      Captain: Got any ideas?
      F/O: Actually not.
      — Captain Chesley B 'Sully' Sullenberger III and F/O Jeff Skiles—

      You'll never be good at something unless you're willing to suck at it first.
      ~Anonymous~

      AMA#116446

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Hugh Wiedman View Post

        Direct from SMC Racing: www.smc-racing.com
        Make sure you select the "True Spec V2 Flight packs". Those are fairly accurate on what the actual C is (and don't believe anyone who has a 100C pack unless it weighs about 50 pounds). I've tested about 20 different brands and the SMC's are the best, at least for me (and those are all "swimming with the fishes" now, what a huge waste of money). All others actual C is more like 25%-40% of their advertised C.

        His other batteries are more for the car guys and they have inflated C ratings, only because he has to compete with other manufacturers that all exaggerate the C and he knows that the flight guys don't get suckered in as much on "advertised" C. So don't think because it's ONLY 40C that it's not as good as some others claiming 50-100C. For 6S, the 4500, 5300 and 6200's are top notch. Also check out the weight of these "graphene" batteries, much lighter than other high C batteries. Somewhere on RC Groups there is also a complete analysis done on something like 50 batteries for aircraft and the SMC 6200 is at the top for weight, actual tested C, individual cell amps and price. If you have any questions about the packs, send an e-mail to the owner, Danny Sullivan, and he'll get back to you immediately, he's very customer service oriented.
        Interesting read.

        Thanks
        Mike
        \"When Inverted Down Is Up And Up Is Expensive\"

        Comment


        • So all you guys looking to upgrade your EDF's. I did not want to spend the money on the 90mm upgrade (roughly $454.00) So I decided to install the 80mm inrunner's from the Mig 29 ($168.00 total).

          This past weekend at my local field I decided to fly my 1st flight with the original outrunner edf's. Then replace the motors with the inrunner edf's for a back to back comparison. I also had three members from my field, watch both flights to give me their thoughts (wanted verification that I wasn't making anything up in my mind).

          Hands down the inrunner's are much better! Really didn't see much of a difference during take off. nor did I see a huge gain in overall speed. However the vertical was huge!!!! The plane climbed and climbed and climbed! Plane seemed to fly better. Not as sluggish or cumbersome.

          Battery: I was running two Specktrum 5000mah 50C 6S batteries. Flew the 1st flight (old edf's) 3:00 mins flight came down at 3.81 per cells. 2nd flight (new edf's) 3:00 flight time, came down with 3:84 per cells. So the in-runners are not much of an improvement thus far as far as flight times.

          Didn't think about putting a GPS unit in, too see if the overall top speed increased. Visually we all agreed it was slightly faster, but how much???

          Overall, I think this is a better and cheaper option than the 90mm upgrade.


          Hope this helps someone that may be looking to upgrade their A-10.

          Tim



          Comment


          • Originally posted by TGoelzer View Post
            This past weekend at my local field I decided to fly my 1st flight with the original outrunner edf's. Then replace the motors with the inrunner edf's for a back to back comparison...Hope this helps someone that may be looking to upgrade their A-10.Tim
            TG, welcome to Hobby Squawk! Thank you for posting your results and taking the time to do the comparison in the same afternoon. A great review and a very timely topic. Best, LB
            Captain: Got any ideas?
            F/O: Actually not.
            — Captain Chesley B 'Sully' Sullenberger III and F/O Jeff Skiles—

            You'll never be good at something unless you're willing to suck at it first.
            ~Anonymous~

            AMA#116446

            Comment


            • You are right about the cost. To go to 90mm, with new nacelles, EDFs, ESCs, the cost would be (IMO) astronomical - another $500.00+ to get it all done. However, the increase in thrust would also be an eye popper. The stock outrunner 80mm has a posted static thrust of ~2.9kg. The upgrade Inrunner 80mm - 3.0 - 3.1kg, so a marginal increase. Going to the 90mm would give you about 4.0kg, so another kg X 2 of static thrust, but at a huge cost.

              Another thought. When you're in the market for new batteries, consider getting something that has a higher "real world" load tested "C". Those Spektrums advertised at 50C are likely only giving a real world output of just over 15C. (This is based upon an extrapolation of real world load tests done on Spektrum 100C, 6s LiPos giving only 25C.) EDFs tend to give their best performance with batteries that can crank out genuine C of 35 to 40C. The ones that can do that are the ChinaHobbyLine 65C (real 35C) or the SMC flight batteries 40C (real 35C). I only use these 2 as examples. There are many other brands that give the desired C ratings that work well in jets. Spektrum just isn't one of them.
              My A-10 is stock and when I went from my Gens Ace 50C Lipos to my CHL 65C, the plane became a rocket ship. If you're going to get new batteries anyway, this may be an even cheaper option over the inrunner EDFs.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by xviper View Post
                You are right about the cost. To go to 90mm, with new nacelles, EDFs, ESCs, the cost would be (IMO) astronomical - another $500.00+ to get it all done. However, the increase in thrust would also be an eye popper. The stock outrunner 80mm has a posted static thrust of ~2.9kg. The upgrade Inrunner 80mm - 3.0 - 3.1kg, so a marginal increase. Going to the 90mm would give you about 4.0kg, so another kg X 2 of static thrust, but at a huge cost.

                Another thought. When you're in the market for new batteries, consider getting something that has a higher "real world" load tested "C". Those Spektrums advertised at 50C are likely only giving a real world output of just over 15C. (This is based upon an extrapolation of real world load tests done on Spektrum 100C, 6s LiPos giving only 25C.) EDFs tend to give their best performance with batteries that can crank out genuine C of 35 to 40C. The ones that can do that are the ChinaHobbyLine 65C (real 35C) or the SMC flight batteries 40C (real 35C). I only use these 2 as examples. There are many other brands that give the desired C ratings that work well in jets. Spektrum just isn't one of them.
                My A-10 is stock and when I went from my Gens Ace 50C Lipos to my CHL 65C, the plane became a rocket ship. If you're going to get new batteries anyway, this may be an even cheaper option over the inrunner EDFs.
                Actaully, I was just looking at the SMC batteries to funny.

                I do agree with your response. However from the information I gathered about the 90mm upgrade is disappointing. Reading other's experience with the 90's is that, it was dismal upgrade. Performance was minimal at best. Flight times shortened. And lastly the price!

                In my test, I used the exact two batteries. I fully charged them at the field for the 1st flight. Let them cool down and then charged them again while I did the edf swap. There was roughly a two hour window between flights.

                The gain was seen with the same batteries. So the C rating is not a factor. But I will definitely agree that a better C rating would increase the performance of both (outrunner & inrunner). However I believe the overall results between the two would be the same.

                Guess I will buy the SMC and get back to you after I have a chance to test it again. The motor swap takes 10 mins per side. So I can do it again. LOL

                Thanks for your response.

                Tim

                Comment


                • I think the stock system is a very well matched set up to what expect from a scale A-10. That said the 90mm to me looks odd and I don't think it needs the thrust. Upgrading to the better 80mm's to me is a great choice especially if you are at higher altitudes. As noted good batteries can also make a huge difference.

                  Comment


                  • Tim, I have no doubt that what you observed is factual. I'm not surprised that you saw a distinct improvement in performance. I have seen this myself with similar upgrades in other planes (ie, outrunner to inrunner). As you have already seen, an increase in thrust doesn't necessarily translate into more top speed. What is very apparent is what I call an increase in "grunt". That is to say, with the inrunners, the power delivery is more push for better vertical performance and better sudden acceleration. It's like describing HP and torque in cars. It's torque that gets things going. It's HP that gets more speed. Here, we're talking torque.
                    The A-10 is one of my older jets and I've been satisfied with the stock performance, but admittedly, I'm leaning towards getting some high performance inrunners myself just to help this old jet "keep up" with some of my other newer EDF's.
                    It's complicated for me to get the SMCs delivered to me in Canada, so Iook forward to your "in person" impressions of how they work for you in this plane. I know several flyers here swear by the SMCs and in those people, I trust greatly.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by TGoelzer View Post

                      Actaully, I was just looking at the SMC batteries to funny.

                      I do agree with your response. However from the information I gathered about the 90mm upgrade is disappointing. Reading other's experience with the 90's is that, it was dismal upgrade. Performance was minimal at best. Flight times shortened. And lastly the price!

                      In my test, I used the exact two batteries. I fully charged them at the field for the 1st flight. Let them cool down and then charged them again while I did the edf swap. There was roughly a two hour window between flights.

                      The gain was seen with the same batteries. So the C rating is not a factor. But I will definitely agree that a better C rating would increase the performance of both (outrunner & inrunner). However I believe the overall results between the two would be the same.

                      Guess I will buy the SMC and get back to you after I have a chance to test it again. The motor swap takes 10 mins per side. So I can do it again. LOL

                      Thanks for your response.

                      Tim
                      I agree with xviper and Evan D. I upgraded my A-10 with the same 80mm inrunners that I took out of my Mig 29 as I upgraded that with the FMS 80mm 12 blade 2100Kv motors, which added about 25% more thrust to the Mig. The Mig fans in the A-10 added about 20% more thrust than the stock A-10 outrunners and I agree, the vertical is so much better and the inrunners are certainly more efficient. I did notice a shorter take-off distance at least on grass. Regarding the batteries, definitely go to the SMC's either the 5300's or the 6200's which is what I use. Those will give you probably about 15% more thrust at take-off over the hugely over rated Spectrum batteries. I fly my A-10 on the 6200's for a minimum of 5 minutes and if I fly it nice and scale like, up to 7-8 minutes. I do have in-flight pack voltage telemetry so although my timer is set at 6:00, I usually begin my landing sequence when it tells me I'm approaching 21.7 volts.

                      Regarding the 90mm upgrade, a friend did that to his but obviously it depends on the fan you put in. He used the FMS fans and I have to say it's a rocket ship. Takes off on grass in almost half the distance and there is no end to the vertical. It's actually way too fast for my liking (as I watch the decals peel off), just doesn't really look like an A-10. I've tried to fly mine with him, and with the upgraded fans it's sort of close, but I whole heartedly agree that the 90mm upgrade is definitely over kill, but the Mig fans in it are sweet!! Probably the easiest and most fun EDF I have to fly. An excellent pilot flew mine at the Lakeland E-Jet Fest this year and won "Best Scale Flight" with it, something I could never do!

                      Click image for larger version

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                      Hugh "Wildman" Wiedman
                      Hangar: FL/FW: Mig 29 "Cobra", A-10 Arctic, F18 Canadian & Tiger Meet, F16 Wild Weasel, F4 Phantom & Blue Angel, 1600 Corsair & Spitfire, Olive B-24, Stinger 90, Red Avanti. Extreme Flight-FW-190 Red Tulip, Slick 60, 60" Extra 300 V2, 62" MXS Heavy Metal, MXS Green, & Demonstrator. FMS-1700mm P-51, Red Bull Corsair. E-Flite-70mm twin SU-30, Beast Bi-Plane 60", P2 Bi-Plane, P-51.

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