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Official Freewing Twin 80mm/90mm A-10 Thunderbolt II Thread

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  • Originally posted by Hugh Wiedman View Post
    ​​​​​​Got another 7 flights in today on the A-10...
    Yes it is a great flier, but I still don't take it out nearly as much as the Avanti just because the Avanti is so easy to put in the truck. But I'm planning to take the A-10 out this weekend. Have you tried knife-edge with the A-10? I do that with the Avanti all the time, but if I recall correctly I had trouble getting this stable with the A-10 (although I only tried a couple times).

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Gringotuerto View Post

      Yes it is a great flier, but I still don't take it out nearly as much as the Avanti just because the Avanti is so easy to put in the truck. But I'm planning to take the A-10 out this weekend. Have you tried knife-edge with the A-10? I do that with the Avanti all the time, but if I recall correctly I had trouble getting this stable with the A-10 (although I only tried a couple times).
      For some lucky reason, I've found that knife edge with the A-10 is surprisingly easy, requiring almost minimal down elevator to keep it tracking straight. I assume the twin large vertical stabilizers are part of this equation. I'm also flying at a CG of about 92mm instead of the book 78mm which probably also contribute to the lack of need of any substantial elevator mix (which I'm not sophisticated enough to figure out mixes with so all my aircraft that I do a knife edge with never have compensations in). The A-10 will also climb for me if needed during knife edge with only 80% throttle, but then I'm also using an extra 15% in high rates on rudder travel for knife edge. And I'm no "super experienced pilot", probably just relatively average like most of us, so I'm very impressed with the A-10's capabilities. I do fly knife edge extensively with my fleet of 60" Extreme Flight aircraft, and my Bi-Planes, but with those if you get a good CG point, all you have to do is "think" about doing a knife edge and it's there, with no mixing needed and they fly around the field in figure 8's or any pattern while in it.

      And I completely agree with you regarding the Avanti, it seems to almost prefer knife edge flight over the ho hum standard level flight. Still working on doing a flat figure 8 in knife edge with the Avanti but think I'll finish it soon if my nerves hold up and I have enough spare under shorts. Not sure I'll even attempt that with the A-10.
      Hugh "Wildman" Wiedman
      Hangar: FL/FW: Mig 29 "Cobra", A-10 Arctic, F18 Canadian & Tiger Meet, F16 Wild Weasel, F4 Phantom & Blue Angel, 1600 Corsair & Spitfire, Olive B-24, Stinger 90, Red Avanti. Extreme Flight-FW-190 Red Tulip, Slick 60, 60" Extra 300 V2, 62" MXS Heavy Metal, MXS Green, & Demonstrator. FMS-1700mm P-51, Red Bull Corsair. E-Flite-70mm twin SU-30, Beast Bi-Plane 60", P2 Bi-Plane, P-51.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Hugh Wiedman View Post
        ​​​​​​Got another 7 flights in today on the A-10 along with 4 on one of my F-4's. Every time I fly the A-10, it just seems to fly better each time, which at this point is almost impossible to get better unless I let a decent pilot take her up for me! Would have got more but these 2 burned through my 18 RT 6250's and I refuse to waste time at the field charging, and I'm not going to buy any more batteries, 140 are enough (man, just think how many more actual planes I could of had instead).

        Anyway, interesting observation here: I fly off grass so upgraded the nose to the trailing link. We had 14-18 mph winds directly down the runway, but neither of them seemed to give a hoot about gusty winds (thankfully not a crosswind though). With jets, I always start out the take-off run with full elevator to relieve pressure on the nose gear which helps it get up to speed quicker on grass, then slowly release elevator just before lift off leaving just enough up to lift off smoothly. Since we had a strong headwind, just to see what happened, I started a take-off run with NO up elevator. The result was that it drove the nose pressure down so much that about 1/2 way down the run, the trailing link was fully depressed. Started over with my normal take-off procedure and that ended that experiment!. The twin "exhaust " thrust is directly over the elevator surface (and if you test it out on the bench you can see and hear just how much thrust the elevators directly influence), that if you use full or even 1/2-3/4 up elevator on take off, it REALLY forces downward pressure on the tail, thus keeping the nose "light as a feather". Probably not needed as much on asphalt, but on grass, wow, what a difference.

        The other thing I noticed was that for landing, downwind around 28-32% throttle, final glide after lining up runway reduced to 15% and then 8%, and about 4 feet off the runway throttle to 0 and then raise the nose before touchdown gets just a perfect somewhat high alpha landing with 0 bounce (actually have never experienced the bucking bronco effect yet ) resulting in a 10-15 foot roll out, at least on grass. Never thought I'd ever chop the throttle on a jet, but this is not your "grandmothers" EDF. Noticed GliderGuy on a post in the Mig 29 thread with almost the exact throttle positions for landing, so these both seem to be a little different than some of the others being a bit larger and able to glide easier without dropping like the proverbial rock.
        The only way to get bucking bronco is landing on the nose gear first. One of the reasons I went to oleo struts on the mains. No bronco effect at all.

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        • Originally posted by Hugh Wiedman View Post

          For some lucky reason, I've found that knife edge with the A-10 is surprisingly easy, requiring almost minimal down elevator to keep it tracking straight. ...
          OK, I took the A-10 out last weekend. It was great as always! But I still didn't nail the knife edge very well. For one thing, those rudders are large, and it is very sensitive. I guess that is good, but it also means I can't just hold the stick all the way to one side like I do with the Avanti. Also I found it definitely pulled towards the canopy - as you say, needs some down elevator to track straight. Anyway, I'll get it eventually. I'm just happy every time I take it to the field and it comes home in the same condition, lol.

          Comment


          • Hey what Colt just said, move the CG back and land on the mains every time, no problem with the bucking bronco. Bouncing on the nose gear is a common problem in a nose-heavy setup.
            Marc flies FW & FL: AL37, MiG-29, T45,F4, A4, A10, F104 70 and 90, P38, Dauntless SBD, Corsair, B17, B24, B26 & P61, Lipp.P19, ME262, Komets, Vampire, SeaVixen, FMS Tigercat, FOX Glider & Radian XL.

            Rabid Models foamies, including my 8' B17 & 9' B36... and my Mud Ducks! www.rabidmodels.com

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Gringotuerto View Post

              OK, I took the A-10 out last weekend. It was great as always! But I still didn't nail the knife edge very well. For one thing, those rudders are large, and it is very sensitive. I guess that is good, but it also means I can't just hold the stick all the way to one side like I do with the Avanti. Also I found it definitely pulled towards the canopy - as you say, needs some down elevator to track straight. Anyway, I'll get it eventually. I'm just happy every time I take it to the field and it comes home in the same condition, lol.
              Just keep at it, it will come as you get more confidence. Agreed that with the Avanti, it requires almost full rudder (have my rudder rates on high for that) but will also climb a bit with full rudder (so either reduce the power slightly or use less rudder). I get a lot of practice with knife edge on my fleet of Extreme Flight planes and it has taken a lot of practice but works well at 60% throttle and maybe about 40% rudder deflection (but then the amount of deflection on those aircraft in high rates is almost 75 degrees, so for knife edge reduce it to mid rates). You may want to try the knife edge on the A-10 with mid or low rates. I use mid rates which are 1/2 way between book rates and use about 80% deflection at 75% throttle. Doesn't always work perfectly but just need to keep at it with enough altitude for an OMG event where I went the wrong way on the rudder (even though I have to force myself to think ahead which direction I am rolling and which direction the rudder needs to go - I'm definitely not intuitive like many out there, I seem to need a que card in my face reminding me which way to go first and sometimes still go in the wrong direction depending if I'm going downwind or upwind to keep the top facing me).
              Hugh "Wildman" Wiedman
              Hangar: FL/FW: Mig 29 "Cobra", A-10 Arctic, F18 Canadian & Tiger Meet, F16 Wild Weasel, F4 Phantom & Blue Angel, 1600 Corsair & Spitfire, Olive B-24, Stinger 90, Red Avanti. Extreme Flight-FW-190 Red Tulip, Slick 60, 60" Extra 300 V2, 62" MXS Heavy Metal, MXS Green, & Demonstrator. FMS-1700mm P-51, Red Bull Corsair. E-Flite-70mm twin SU-30, Beast Bi-Plane 60", P2 Bi-Plane, P-51.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Hugh Wiedman View Post

                ... with enough altitude for an OMG event where I went the wrong way on the rudder ...
                A guy at the field suggested remembering this rule for entering a knife edge: if you see the canopy, push the stick toward the tail; if you see the wheels, push the stick toward the nose. Works for either direction of travel. I don't know if you find these kind of mental tricks helpful, but I do. Some people find it easier to mentally rotate the plane to the Tx orientation.

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                • I took a video today using an Insta 360GO camera mounted on the outboard pylon. Unfortunately the video timed out before the landing, but its still pretty cool. The 360GO camera stabilizes the horizon which produces some pretty cool effects when rolling and doing other maneuvers. I recommend turning the sound OFF because of the wind noise.

                  Marc flies FW & FL: AL37, MiG-29, T45,F4, A4, A10, F104 70 and 90, P38, Dauntless SBD, Corsair, B17, B24, B26 & P61, Lipp.P19, ME262, Komets, Vampire, SeaVixen, FMS Tigercat, FOX Glider & Radian XL.

                  Rabid Models foamies, including my 8' B17 & 9' B36... and my Mud Ducks! www.rabidmodels.com

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by themudduck View Post
                    I took a video today using an Insta 360GO camera mounted on the outboard pylon. Unfortunately the video timed out before the landing, but its still pretty cool. The 360GO camera stabilizes the horizon which produces some pretty cool effects when rolling and doing other maneuvers. I recommend turning the sound OFF because of the wind noise.

                    That is truly amazing. How did you attach it to the pylon and how long is the battery good for? Very unique perspective, one that to me looks much better than the other cameras. Saw it on Amazon, about $195 right? What medium is it saved on and what type of batteries? Thanks, sorry for all the questions, just looks really cool and if I get a camera, I would like something like that.
                    Hugh "Wildman" Wiedman
                    Hangar: FL/FW: Mig 29 "Cobra", A-10 Arctic, F18 Canadian & Tiger Meet, F16 Wild Weasel, F4 Phantom & Blue Angel, 1600 Corsair & Spitfire, Olive B-24, Stinger 90, Red Avanti. Extreme Flight-FW-190 Red Tulip, Slick 60, 60" Extra 300 V2, 62" MXS Heavy Metal, MXS Green, & Demonstrator. FMS-1700mm P-51, Red Bull Corsair. E-Flite-70mm twin SU-30, Beast Bi-Plane 60", P2 Bi-Plane, P-51.

                    Comment


                    • ^ That is so cool. It keeps the horizon level. Is that a setting on the camera? Can you turn that off and make it follow the roll?

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Hugh Wiedman View Post

                        That is truly amazing. How did you attach it to the pylon and how long is the battery good for? Very unique perspective, one that to me looks much better than the other cameras. Saw it on Amazon, about $195 right? What medium is it saved on and what type of batteries? Thanks, sorry for all the questions, just looks really cool and if I get a camera, I would like something like that.
                        Hey guys, yeah it is really cool! My friend posted an edited video (3 videos in one) where I mounted the camera on the tail of the AL37 airliner - it looks like someone is following the plane.

                        So this little camera comes with a small magnetic "docking station" that charges the camera and downloads the video. There are some electronics in the docking station and I guess that helps keep the camera small. I don't know for sure but the camera seems to use a capacitor instead of a battery, because it won't hold a full charge for more than a few days (I have to recharge it for each weekend). Maybe it just has a tiny battery!

                        The longest video it can take is 5 minutes (it won't record longer than that). You can take several 5-min videos in a row. It saves the videos internally and then you download it to your PC using the docking station. You can also use it with your phone (Iphone or Samsung). It uses proprietary software (free download) that you have to use, but then you can save it in a standard format. So it does have some limitations but it is very small and takes this really cool video. It has two modes - the stabilized mode and an "FPV" mode which looks exactly like a regular video. The magic is in the software, its takes a 360-degree video and when you play it back it looks like you see in my previous post. You can play it back in either mode - but the neat thing about the stabilized mode is that you can mount the camera in any position and the video will play back "upright". With the "FPV" mode the camera must be upright. (FPV mode is not FPV, that's just what they call it)

                        It will also take individual pics, and can be used to take "hyperlapse" videos (a string of pictures) but I got it for the video.

                        What I did was to mount the camera in a custom-made 3D-printed plastic pod that mounts on a FW weapons pylon.. (I haven't uploaded the new one to Thingiverse yet but I will).

                        Click image for larger version  Name:	20201001_221256.jpg Views:	0 Size:	54.6 KB ID:	283644Click image for larger version  Name:	image_63844.png Views:	3 Size:	124.1 KB ID:	283642
                        Marc flies FW & FL: AL37, MiG-29, T45,F4, A4, A10, F104 70 and 90, P38, Dauntless SBD, Corsair, B17, B24, B26 & P61, Lipp.P19, ME262, Komets, Vampire, SeaVixen, FMS Tigercat, FOX Glider & Radian XL.

                        Rabid Models foamies, including my 8' B17 & 9' B36... and my Mud Ducks! www.rabidmodels.com

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by xviper View Post
                          ^ That is so cool. It keeps the horizon level. Is that a setting on the camera? Can you turn that off and make it follow the roll?
                          see above post.... its controlled by the software, you can play it back in stabilized mode or in regular mode.
                          Marc flies FW & FL: AL37, MiG-29, T45,F4, A4, A10, F104 70 and 90, P38, Dauntless SBD, Corsair, B17, B24, B26 & P61, Lipp.P19, ME262, Komets, Vampire, SeaVixen, FMS Tigercat, FOX Glider & Radian XL.

                          Rabid Models foamies, including my 8' B17 & 9' B36... and my Mud Ducks! www.rabidmodels.com

                          Comment


                          • Very very cool!!
                            My YouTube RC videos:
                            https://www.youtube.com/@toddbreda

                            Comment


                            • With good weather coming this weekend I hope to get some more video, that last one was the very first time using the wing "pod". I want to try it with the Phantom. Then I'll get the thing posted on Thingiverse.
                              Marc flies FW & FL: AL37, MiG-29, T45,F4, A4, A10, F104 70 and 90, P38, Dauntless SBD, Corsair, B17, B24, B26 & P61, Lipp.P19, ME262, Komets, Vampire, SeaVixen, FMS Tigercat, FOX Glider & Radian XL.

                              Rabid Models foamies, including my 8' B17 & 9' B36... and my Mud Ducks! www.rabidmodels.com

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by bbolz View Post
                                Maidened the A10 yesterday and had an incident. Not a lot of damage but ran out of juice because I forgot to start the timer and the guys that were supporting me were no help and I forced the landing. Cost me a gear door. I was running two 6s 6000 Admirals and they are a bit heavy which resulted in nose heavy. Not a lot but needed some up trim. I'm going to go back to the Glacier 5300 6s's. A lot smaller battery. Anyway I needed a lot of left trim on aileron. More than normal in my opinion. That's without any ordinance on board. Does anyone have any suggestions as to what may cause the excessive right roll? I did fly most of the flight inadvertently on take off flap with no elevator mix. That may be one of the issues, but the flaps look to be centered pretty good on the ground. Going to try another "maiden" tomorrow on the revised CG and the smaller batteries. Hope I can remember to start the timer this time.
                                did you since the motors?

                                Comment


                                • Originally posted by Dirty Dee View Post
                                  I'm glad to hear that!
                                  Dee are you still printing? I've seen your page says you're no longer printing? Would like to lick up some things if you are..lmk!

                                  Comment


                                  • Originally posted by Look ma, no trim View Post

                                    Dee are you still printing? I've seen your page says you're no longer printing? Would like to lick up some things if you are..lmk!
                                    Sorry, I am still not printing at the moment. There might be some folks on the forum that might be able to assist, so I'll let them voice it. Otherwise you might be able to post in the 3DP thread to see if there are any takers:

                                    Comment


                                    • Originally posted by Dirty Dee View Post

                                      Sorry, I am still not printing at the moment. There might be some folks on the forum that might be able to assist, so I'll let them voice it. Otherwise you might be able to post in the 3DP thread to see if there are any takers:
                                      https://www.hobbysquawk.com/forum/th...ial-3dp-thread
                                      thank you Dee

                                      Comment


                                      • Question. Am I to understand that if I'd like to bypass the control box, I do not use the ribbons, and that I only use the box for the lighting and LG due to sequencing? If I were to go with a different lighting option, then I only use the control board for the gear?

                                        3rd and last question, lol, what is the general consensus pertaining to the ESC's and servos in the pnp in regards to reliability? Yea or nea?

                                        Thanks in advance for the help fellas!!

                                        Comment


                                        • Originally posted by Look ma, no trim View Post
                                          Question. Am I to understand that if I'd like to bypass the control box, I do not use the ribbons, and that I only use the box for the lighting and LG due to sequencing? If I were to go with a different lighting option, then I only use the control board for the gear?

                                          3rd and last question, lol, what is the general consensus pertaining to the ESC's and servos in the pnp in regards to reliability? Yea or nea?

                                          Thanks in advance for the help fellas!!
                                          You can bypass the BB for everything if you want. You can even get a cheap gear door sequencer for cheap and get rid of the BB entirely. However, the BB is a convenience feature and keeping the ribbon cable makes for fewer connections every time you put the wings ON/OFF.
                                          I've had no issues with the stock ESCs.

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