Official Freewing 90mm F-16 Falcon Thread

[Phantom]

So manufacturers specs for this FMS EDF setup is 25.20v X 112amps=2822watts.

HS=Hobbystar
TGY=Turnigy
TGY-NT=Turnigy-Nano Tech

The rest of the lipos brands should be self explanatory.

Ok from top to bottom these are the power runs,

HS 4200mah 40c 6s two lipos parallel =8400mah
>3141.7 W at 143.46A

HS 8000mah 100c 6s
>2880.4W at 121.35A

HRB 6000 56c 6s
>2802.2W at 120.88A

CNHL G+plus 5000 55c burst 110c 6s
>2761.7W at 121.72A

CNHL 2200 40C burst 80c 6s
>2734.2W at 119.59A

CNHL Black 5000 65c 6s
>2690.5W at 119.59A

HS 6200 50c 3s two lipos series
>2673.5 at 123.84A

HS 3500 60c 6s
>2636.3W at 118.22A

CNHL G+plus 6000 70c burst 140c 6s
>2615.8W at 116.26A

HS 3000 30c 6s two lipos parallel =6000mah
>2552.3W at 116.0A

TGY-NT 4000 25-50c 6s
>2536.4W at 113.52A

CNHL 2200 40c 6s two lipos parallel =4400mah
>2492.5W at 117.02A

TGY-NT 5000 35-70c 6s
>2482.2W at 117.64A

HS 4600 35c 6s
>2469.1W at 117.02

TGY 2650 20-30c 6s two lipos parallel =5300mah
>2459.9W at 117.51A

HS 6200 50c 6s
>2453.2 W at 116.82A

HS 5200 45c 3s two lipos series
>2427.5W at 113.33A

HS 4200 40c 6s
>2287.6W at 112.a4A

Interesting that identical lipos packs when wired up in parallel add over 800W of power. Like in the case of the HS 4200 40c 6s, verses just one of these lipos.

Also interesting to note that two 3s wired in a series produced 220W of additional power over the 6s equivalent. Such as in the case of the HS 6200 50c 3s in a series verses the HS 6200 50c 6s.

My thoughts are that two batteries whether wired up in a series or in parallel allow for a truer C rating to the claimed manufacturers C rating.

Below is a picture the lipos tested so that you can compare lipo sizes.

[DCORSAIR]

So manufacturers specs for this FMS EDF setup is 25.20v X 112amps=2822watts.

HS=Hobbystar
TGY=Turnigy
TGY-NT=Turnigy-Nano Tech

The rest of the lipos brands should be self explanatory.

Ok from top to bottom these are the power runs,

HS 4200mah 40c 6s two lipos parallel =8400mah
>3141.7 W at 143.46A

HS 8000mah 100c 6s
>2880.4W at 121.35A

HRB 6000 56c 6s
>2802.2W at 120.88A

CNHL G+plus 5000 55c burst 110c 6s
>2761.7W at 121.72A

CNHL 2200 40C burst 80c 6s
>2734.2W at 119.59A

CNHL Black 5000 65c 6s
>2690.5W at 119.59A

HS 6200 50c 3s two lipos series
>2673.5 at 123.84A

HS 3500 60c 6s
>2636.3W at 118.22A

CNHL G+plus 6000 70c burst 140c 6s
>2615.8W at 116.26A

HS 3000 30c 6s two lipos parallel =6000mah
>2552.3W at 116.0A

TGY-NT 4000 25-50c 6s
>2536.4W at 113.52A

CNHL 2200 40c 6s two lipos parallel =4400mah
>2492.5W at 117.02A

TGY-NT 5000 35-70c 6s
>2482.2W at 117.64A

HS 4600 35c 6s
>2469.1W at 117.02

TGY 2650 20-30c 6s two lipos parallel =5300mah
>2459.9W at 117.51A

HS 6200 50c 6s
>2453.2 W at 116.82A

HS 5200 45c 3s two lipos series
>2427.5W at 113.33A

HS 4200 40c 6s
>2287.6W at 112.a4A

Interesting that identical lipos packs when wired up in parallel add over 800W of power. Like in the case of the HS 4200 40c 6s, verses just one of these lipos.

Also interesting to note that two 3s wired in a series produced 220W of additional power over the 6s equivalent. Such as in the case of the HS 6200 50c 3s in a series verses the HS 6200 50c 6s.

My thoughts are that two batteries whether wired up in a series or in parallel allow for a truer C rating to the claimed manufacturers C rating.

Below is a picture the lipos tested so that you can compare lipo sizes.

Good job and thanks for posting, any chance you will do any testing on the Genesace/Tattu 5000 45c and 5000 60c lipos? They are all I use in my EDF jets and helis.

[Phantom]

Good job and thanks for posting, any chance you will do any testing on the Genesace/Tattu 5000 45c and 5000 60c lipos? They are all I use in my EDF jets and helis.

Unfortunately I have no batteries from either of those brands.

[Hugh Wiedman]

Phantom WOW, a lot of great data to analyze, thanks. The FMS fan is an out-runner, correct?

The 2 HS 4200 40 C must turn this thing into a Saturn Rocket! But maybe a bit much for the 130 Amp ESC you downgraded to, no? It also seems (unless I'm mistaken) that in some cases, the slightly higher C rated battery performs almost identical to one with a slightly lower C. I have definitely found something similar with my jets that have out-runners. The out-runner EDF's in my Stinger 90, the 2-F-4's and my F-18 show virtually the same amps/watts drawn on a Roaring Top 5500 70 C and a RT 6250 35 C battery, with the Admiral 6000 50 C (tested at an actual C of a couple points less than the RT 35 C) just slightly below the 2 RT's. The in-runners in my Avanti, F-16 and SU-30 showed a substantial increase (+7 amps & +250 watts) with the 70 C versus the 35 C or 50 C. I'm not sure that this is backed up by any actual "science" or if it's just a coincidence.

So now after this, what battery set up are you most inclined to go with that gives you the best balance of power/flight time/weight? I'm guessing the HRB 6000 56 C 6S or the 2-HS 6200 50 C 3S.

[Phantom]

Phantom WOW, a lot of great data to analyze, thanks. The FMS fan is an out-runner, correct?

The 2 HS 4200 40 C must turn this thing into a Saturn Rocket! But maybe a bit much for the 130 Amp ESC you downgraded to, no? It also seems (unless I'm mistaken) that in some cases, the slightly higher C rated battery performs almost identical to one with a slightly lower C. I have definitely found something similar with my jets that have out-runners. The out-runner EDF's in my Stinger 90, the 2-F-4's and my F-18 show virtually the same amps/watts drawn on a Roaring Top 5500 70 C and a RT 6250 35 C battery, with the Admiral 6000 50 C (tested at an actual C of a couple points less than the RT 35 C) just slightly below the 2 RT's. The in-runners in my Avanti, F-16 and SU-30 showed a substantial increase (+7 amps & +250 watts) with the 70 C versus the 35 C or 50 C. I'm not sure that this is backed up by any actual "science" or if it's just a coincidence.

So now after this, what battery set up are you most inclined to go with that gives you the best balance of power/flight time/weight? I'm guessing the HRB 6000 56 C 6S or the 2-HS 6200 50 C 3S.

Historically I've only used the HS 8000 100c 6s, the HRB 6000 50c, and the HS 6200 50c 6s in her since switching back to a 6s setup in her. I'm glad I did the testing as now I know about the additional power the HS 4200 40c 6s in parallel offers. All ESC's have a burst capability and an additional 13 amps of static power wouldn't tax the ESC too much if used in bursts. The system would only experience that with full throttle take off runs honestly because as soon as air starts getting rammed into the fan due to forward momentum, the efficiency of the system will increase and the reduced drag on the blades would demand less amp draw. So I think I'll keep the 130amp ESC in there and capitalize on the reduced weight over the 150amp ESC.

I've used the HS 4200 40c 6s in parallel setup in many of my jets such as my 80mm F-5, 80mm F-86, twin 80mm A-10 just to name a few because I loved the HS 8000 100c 6s lipos, however some of the planes like the F-5 can't fit the single 8000mah lipo. Additionally the 8000's are 159 bucks a piece where as two HS 4200's in parallel cost 30 bucks less, 50 bucks less if they are on sale.

Due to this I have 12 of them verses 4 of the 8000's. I've always been a fan of multiple batteries in a series and in parallel due to the decreased cost and the added mah capacity they provide. However this is the first time I've tested their ability to deliver power over a similar capacity single battery. Now I'm convinced, the proof is in the pudding.

I once loaded up my 90mm YAK-130 8s system with four 4000mah 40c 4s lipos wired first in parallel and then in series to give my 8000mah 8s worth of lipos on board. The interior of the YAK's battery compartment is so vast that I could wedge them into just below the wing and make CG no problem. It was an amazing 7 minute flight on 8s, I sacrificed some vertical, but she handled the extra weight no problem, I'll hook her up that way again, with pics so that you can see the loadout, and post the power run over in the Yak page because now I'm just curious.

The assorted lipos used during this power tests haven't all been flown with this F-16 yet. It was just an experiment using the majority of options for lipos I have, to see the power delivering difference. Having said that the HS 4200 40c 6s in parallel will be my go to lipos for this jet in the future.

And since I'm already setup I'll bench test the majority of my EDF's now and post on their respective blog pages for anyone who's curious.

[Hugh Wiedman]

Phantom now you got me thinkin', which is a very dangerous state of mind with me. How in the world do you fit 2 6S 4200 mah batteries in there! I've got plenty of Admiral 6S 4000 and 3300 mah that I use in my Extreme Flight 3D planes and I just tried to get 2 of either in my F-16 and couldn't figure out how (the 3300 almost fit in line though). I'd love to have 8000 mah to play with.

I have the 12 blade 4068-1835 Kv inrunner in it with a 130 Amp Castle ESC and 10 amp UBEC so I think it could handle them. Right now, I'm using either the Roaring Top 5500 70 C (weight 825g) which draws 117.3 amps and 2840 watts (with about 3:30 flight time), or lately been using the RT 6250 35 C (weight 795g) drawing 113.7 amps and 2605 watts (with just over 4:00 flight time). The 6250 is lighter and gives me more flight time, but requires about 30 more feet of runway on grass, so it's a trade off I'm happy to give.

The 4000 Admirals weigh 598g each, which would total 1,196g, about 400g more even if I could get them in. It wouldn't make much sense for me to use 2 3300, which would only give me 6600 mah, vs the 6250 mah of the single RT. What is the total weight of 2 HS 4200?

Secondly, although my father was an electrical engineer, none of his brains passed on to me so exactly how did you hook them up in parallel? I know one of the + battery leads is hooked to the other batteries - lead, but did you make a special EC5 connector for this or does some outfit make one for EC5?

Thanks for your input, but if I ever try to hook up something like this, just look for the big mushroom cloud to your west. Could be something similar to when I thought I could "fix" a puffed LiPo by sticking a needle in it to release the extra air and almost burned myself, the house and most of the neighborhood down. That's usually where my "thinking" gets me!

[Phantom]

Phantom now you got me thinkin', which is a very dangerous state of mind with me. How in the world do you fit 2 6S 4200 mah batteries in there! I've got plenty of Admiral 6S 4000 and 3300 mah that I use in my Extreme Flight 3D planes and I just tried to get 2 of either in my F-16 and couldn't figure out how (the 3300 almost fit in line though). I'd love to have 8000 mah to play with.

I have the 12 blade 4068-1835 Kv inrunner in it with a 130 Amp Castle ESC and 10 amp UBEC so I think it could handle them. Right now, I'm using either the Roaring Top 5500 70 C (weight 825g) which draws 117.3 amps and 2840 watts (with about 3:30 flight time), or lately been using the RT 6250 35 C (weight 795g) drawing 113.7 amps and 2605 watts (with just over 4:00 flight time). The 6250 is lighter and gives me more flight time, but requires about 30 more feet of runway on grass, so it's a trade off I'm happy to give.

The 4000 Admirals weigh 598g each, which would total 1,196g, about 400g more even if I could get them in. It wouldn't make much sense for me to use 2 3300, which would only give me 6600 mah, vs the 6250 mah of the single RT. What is the total weight of 2 HS 4200?

Secondly, although my father was an electrical engineer, none of his brains passed on to me so exactly how did you hook them up in parallel? I know one of the + battery leads is hooked to the other batteries - lead, but did you make a special EC5 connector for this or does some outfit make one for EC5?

Thanks for your input, but if I ever try to hook up something like this, just look for the big mushroom cloud to your west. Could be something similar to when I thought I could "fix" a puffed LiPo by sticking a needle in it to release the extra air and almost burned myself, the house and most of the neighborhood down. That's usually where my "thinking" gets me!

First off Hugh, your message was hilarious especially the ending!🤣

Secondly if you're aren't thinking of crazy ways to modify and hopefully improve your RC experience over what the manufacturer had planned for you, then in my humble opinion, you're missing out!😅

I modified my battery compartment both top, bottom including the sides, when I replaced the fuselage after my 150amp ESC failed on short final. MRC found a bad soldering connection on it and fixed it and sent it back to me. These mods were posted in #534 to #541 of this thread, with pics and the additional room created, measured in mm. I did this mod, to be able to put two 5000mah 65c 4s CNHL Black series batteries wired in series to get 8s power. I was also able to two E-Speed 6200mah 50c 4s lipos wired in series for 8s power.

When I reverted back to a 6s power the mods extra room was a bonus.

Pre-mod you can get a
>HS 8000mah 100c 6s battery in your bay. Weight is 920g, dimensions are 135x43x68mm, cost 159.99.

You can also get these lipos in your pre-mod battery bay

>two 3500mah 60c wired in parallel for 7000mah 6s. Weight is 445g a piece for 890g total, dimensions are 133x44x35mm each, at a cost of 69.99 each, totalling 140 bucks for 7000mah 6s.

>two 5200mah 45c 3s wired in series for 5200mah 6s. Weight is 335g a piece total 770g, dimensions 133x43x26 each, cost 39.99 each totalling 80bucks for 5200mah.

I attached pics of these lipos in my modified battery bay showing you the additional room left over, they should fit in your unmodified bay given the extra room I have.

[Phantom]

Above is the HS 4600mah 35c 6s in parallel for 9200mah total. Weight is 570g each 1140g total, dimensions 130x43x47, cost 59.99 each currently on sale normally 69.99 each. So 120 bucks for 9200mah. They have 10 and 20 bucks off sales so often that's usually when I buy my lipos.

[Phantom]

Here my 4200mah 40c 6s wired up in parallel for 8200mah this is my powerhouse setup with over 3000watts of power. Weight is 570g each 1140g total, dimensions are 130x43x47mm, cost is 69.99 esch for 140 bucks total, but as I pick them up on their frequent sales, I've never paid more than 59.99 a piece for them.

[Phantom]

pictured above is the parallel adapter, you can usually pick them up online for about 7 bucks. This keeps your voltage the same but doubles your mah or fuel in the tank. You can solder your own, I have but it's easier to just purchase online.

[Phantom]

This is a series adapter, it doubles your voltage while keeping your mah the same. So two 3s 5000mah lipos become a 6s 5000mah lipo.

Hope this helps, the mods in post #534 to #541 only take about an hour and a half to 2 hours to do. You're just carving and shaving foam, repositioning the battery compartment magnets, and either adding or relocating your battery strap down plate further aft.

[Hugh Wiedman]

Phantom Thanks so much for all the photos and the advice. You're a modifying manic! Wow, 7000 to over 9000 mah. Now that's what I call INCREASED Flight Time!! You're the Man! Love it!

[Hugh Wiedman]

Phantom that Hobbystar 8000 mah 6S 100C looks like a great alternative to 2 batteries without removing foam but I can't seem to find any available anywhere. RC Juice (ebay) and Amazon had them but sold out. There was a German website that might have had some, but my German is so rusty I'm not sure if I was ordering a battery or some strudel. I'm sure in your "neck of the woods" there are probably some places that have them in-stock. I found some very weird place at www.xdevenire.com that claimed they had them, but the cost was $86.40 per battery, then when you go to check out they have a "quantity discount" with free shipping and the total cost for all 4 was $94. If that's the case, send me 100 of them and I'll go into business myself! I think this would also be a great battery for my SU-30. Right now I'm flying it on a Roaring Top 5500 70C and only getting just over 3 minutes, so after take-off and a few Cuban 8's and a couple of Spit S's, it's hurry up and land! So I'm going to keep a look out if they ever get them back in stock. In the meantime, I'm going to see if I can get 2 4000 mah 6S in either one. Thanks for the advice.

[Phantom]

Yeah Hugh they sell out pretty fast, but they also stock them regularly. I use the twin 4200's in the majority of my birds, but some like my Venom won't work with the 4200's.

[Johnnyrabuse]

Maidened today

Crosswind at 5

5000 admirals timer set two minutes

3 minutes flight times

Used elevon mix with full and half flaps available

And aerolines I can turn on and off

Thing lands like a pipercub now rollouts can be under 75 feet

Way better than flaperons

Elevons alone are equal to the stock aerolines and have less drag

On half flaps thing will float forever on a chopped throttle

Awesome jet

I have the HS version I'm going to drop 8s in shortly and fly 6000s after I cut out some foam

[Phantom]

Soooooo anybody have an idea on how to swap out the main wheels? I've tried the allen set screw on bottom, see photo, I disconnected the strut to check the bottom side to see if there was another set screw, there's not. I can't seem to figure out how these wheels come off.

[DCORSAIR]

Soooooo anybody have an idea on how to swap out the main wheels? I've tried the allen set screw on bottom, see photo, I disconnected the strut to check the bottom side to see if there was another set screw, there's not. I can't seem to figure out how these wheels come off.

I have done plenty of those, a good allen wrench and soldering iron with a small tip to melt the loctite because they put plenty.........

Hold the iron tip in the hole when you pull the set screw out until its nice and hot and use a punch and tap the axle from the inside/outward to get the axle to loosen up, take your time, they will come out.

[Hugh Wiedman]

Phantom exact same thing happened to me on one of the wheels after a landing and it seemed there was no way to get these off, but DCORSAIR is on the money, as usual. Once you get the allen screw out (with a little help from the soldering iron), that's all that holds it in but they put so much loctite on it that the axle is also "stuck" in. Holding a soldering iron inside the hole for the allen screw "melts" the excess loctite around the axel and it should come out.

[Phantom]

[DCorsair/Hugh] Thank you Gents, I appreciate the inside tips. I'll give it a try.

[roys001]

I just finished my re-maiden on my 90mm F-16 after replacing the power system with the new F-22 8s in runner motor and speed control. I'm running it on 2 Admiral 4s 5000 batteries. The battery location moved forward about a half of an inch with the 4s batteries mounted side by side. I had replaced the original power system with a JP fan but it still lacked the punch needed for the plane to fly like an F-16. With the 8s system, the plane performs wonderfully. Plenty of power and great speed. With good throttle management I can get 4 minute flights with plenty of fun stunts. This is such a good airframe, I just had to punch up the performance. The next project is to paint it with the Nellis AFB Aggressor colors.