Official Freewing 90mm F-16 Falcon Thread

[Hugh Wiedman]

I have one spot on the wall left to use and have been eyeing this plane for a while.

Trying to pull the trigger on either it or the Phantom.

Can anyone tell me an accurate empty weight? Concerned it's too heavy to perform very well.

I really like the F-16 with the 12 blade 1835 Kv inrunner, IMO it flies great. Got out today and put 20 flights on the group, 4 each on the F-16 and F-4. Is it heavy? I don't really think so (now that E-Flight SU-30, that's one heavy pig), but I also fly the F-16 with a very heavy 8000 mah battery in it and get over 5 minutes and with that 12 blade, it takes off of grass very well and has all the vertical I need. Not sure about the 9 blade inrunner it now comes with, although I suspect it too flies very well (better than the original stock outrunner), but that 12 blade has mucho horsepower. I fly it fully loaded as well and the weight of the larger battery (over a 6000 mah) is not even noticeable. On the other hand, although the F-4 is slightly lighter (barely), it also flies extremely well, and I still have the old 9 blade 1750 Kv outrunner, which I think Freewing has "outlawed". With the 1900 Kv inrunner it now comes with I bet it flies exceptional. I won't find out though 'cause I just ordered another 12 blade inrunner to put in the F-4 (and a 2nd one to go in my F-18), so can't wait to see how that fan performs in the F-4. My opinion, you need to get both, but if you only get one, I would go with the F-16. It definitely has a real presence in the air, especially when flown with all the ordinance. The F-4 does not have quite the versatile flight envelope as the F-16. There are certain times that you can create a wing stall, especially if you are going vertical and pull too much up elevator, it can get very squirrely, where the F-16 is much more maneuverable and gets into a high alpha much easier.

The empty weight of both the stock jets is about the same, 2850 grams (F4) and 2900 grams (F-16 w/o ordinance), although my F-4 weighs in at 3030 grams because I added extra weight with the 3D printed cockpit, several coats of clear urethane and a twin afterburner. The empty stock F-16 is about 2900 grams. Mine however weighs in at 3090 grams empty because I added some extra paint, clear urethane coating, the heavier 12 bladed inrunner and a 2nd LED afterburner to go along with the included ring burner (the more the merrier).

[Mizer67]

I really like the F-16 with the 12 blade 1835 Kv inrunner, IMO it flies great. Got out today and put 20 flights on the group, 4 each on the F-16 and F-4. Is it heavy? I don't really think so (now that E-Flight SU-30, that's one heavy pig), but I also fly the F-16 with a very heavy 8000 mah battery in it and get over 5 minutes and with that 12 blade, it takes off of grass very well and has all the vertical I need. Not sure about the 9 blade inrunner it now comes with, although I suspect it too flies very well (better than the original stock outrunner), but that 12 blade has mucho horsepower. I fly it fully loaded as well and the weight of the larger battery (over a 6000 mah) is not even noticeable. On the other hand, although the F-4 is slightly lighter (barely), it also flies extremely well, and I still have the old 9 blade 1750 Kv outrunner, which I think Freewing has "outlawed". With the 1900 Kv inrunner it now comes with I bet it flies exceptional. I won't find out though 'cause I just ordered another 12 blade inrunner to put in the F-4 (and a 2nd one to go in my F-18), so can't wait to see how that fan performs in the F-4. My opinion, you need to get both, but if you only get one, I would go with the F-16. It definitely has a real presence in the air, especially when flown with all the ordinance. The F-4 does not have quite the versatile flight envelope as the F-16. There are certain times that you can create a wing stall, especially if you are going vertical and pull too much up elevator, it can get very squirrely, where the F-16 is much more maneuverable and gets into a high alpha much easier.

The empty weight of both the stock jets is about the same, 2850 grams (F4) and 2900 grams (F-16 w/o ordinance), although my F-4 weighs in at 3030 grams because I added extra weight with the 3D printed cockpit, several coats of clear urethane and a twin afterburner. The empty stock F-16 is about 2900 grams. Mine however weighs in at 3090 grams empty because I added some extra paint, clear urethane coating, the heavier 12 bladed inrunner and a 2nd LED afterburner to go along with the included ring burner (the more the merrier).

Thanks Hugh. That's good info.

I read on the other site last night about the F-16 being 3200 grams empty, but perhaps the power setup was different. Thought with those beefy gear and extra servos it was significantly heavier than the current generation of planes.

I have a spare 12-bld. 1835kv FW EDF that should be a drop in fit. Fantastic thrust on that motor. Just for giggles I also have an FMS 1850kv 12-bld on the way that's new that looks to be in direct competition to FW's version. I've been impressed with their EDFs (for the price) so thought I'd test this new one out against my favorite Freewing motor on 6S.

I need to cut the roster to fit two more 90mms in my garage space. Running short of wall to hang them on unless I go higher.

[Hugh Wiedman]

I have a spare 12-bld. 1835kv FW EDF that should be a drop in fit. Fantastic thrust on that motor. Just for giggles I also have an FMS 1850kv 12-bld on the way that's new that looks to be in direct competition to FW's version. I've been impressed with their EDFs (for the price) so thought I'd test this new one out against my favorite Freewing motor on 6S.

M67, I can tell you for sure the FW 12 Blade inrunner is a drop in fit for the F-16. It will be interesting to see your comparison with the FMS fan. Elbee has said that it is also a drop in fit for the 90 mm F-18. Certainly my favorite FW EDF!!! So much so that I just ordered 2 more last night (am I crazy or what-could have bought another plane) along with 2 twin afterburners (LED cones only) to put in my F-4 and F-18. Both had the "old" 9 blade 1750 Kv outrunner and were due for a power surge. Got tired of the incessant whining of that old outrunner and after flying it again yesterday, I just had to say bye bye to those things. Anyone looking for two 9 blade 3748-1750 Kv outrunners, both with afterburners, REAL CHEAP? But wait, if you act now, you can buy one and get the second free, with only a nominal (price of a new Mig) shipping?

BTW, in my previous testing of EDF's, the inrunner vs these older outrunners, I found that the inrunner REALLY benefits from a higher C battery, but it didn't make much of a difference with the outrunner. The difference on power draws for a 35C vs a 75C (of course not the actual C, but their "labeled" C) was an increase in over 7Ah and 300 watts.

[DCORSAIR]

M67, I can tell you for sure the FW 12 Blade inrunner is a drop in fit for the F-16. It will be interesting to see your comparison with the FMS fan. Elbee has said that it is also a drop in fit for the 90 mm F-18. Certainly my favorite FW EDF!!! So much so that I just ordered 2 more last night (am I crazy or what-could have bought another plane) along with 2 twin afterburners (LED cones only) to put in my F-4 and F-18. Both had the "old" 9 blade 1750 Kv outrunner and were due for a power surge. Got tired of the incessant whining of that old outrunner and after flying it again yesterday, I just had to say bye bye to those things. Anyone looking for two 9 blade 3748-1750 Kv outrunners, both with afterburners, REAL CHEAP? But wait, if you act now, you can buy one and get the second free, with only a nominal (price of a new Mig) shipping?

BTW, in my previous testing of EDF's, the inrunner vs these older outrunners, I found that the inrunner REALLY benefits from a higher C battery, but it didn't make much of a difference with the outrunner. The difference on power draws for a 35C vs a 75C (of course not the actual C, but their "labeled" C) was an increase in over 7Ah and 300 watts.

Hugh,
You will love the 1835 in the F-4, sounds great, I pulled that 9 blade out after one flight I think, I don't like whiners....

Here is what yours will sound like....sweeet

[Hugh Wiedman]

Hugh,
You will love the 1835 in the F-4, sounds great, I pulled that 9 blade out after one flight I think, I don't like whiners....

Here is what yours will sound like....sweeet

C'est Tres Magnifique!!! I don't know how I've put up with that old outrunner for so long, must have some 200 flights on it. I always loved the sound and performance of that 12 blade in the F-16 but it just didn't dawn on me till yesterday that I should put one in the F-4 and the F-18 (also with that old outrunner). I'd have gotten a 3rd 12 blade for my 2nd F-4 (the blue angle version) but that will have to wait just a bit longer until my credit card cools down. From the looks of your great video, it's not just the sound that's a huge improvement, although I'm sure the pilot had as much or more to do with that as the EDF. On some of my verticals, cuban eights and split S's with the old outrunner, I had to be careful at the top and not pull too hard for fear of the occasional wing stall as it groaned to get over. Did make for some interesting weird maneuvers at times though.

[DCORSAIR]

Oh sorry guys, for some reason I thought this was the F-4 thread, oops.

[Hugh Wiedman]

Oh sorry guys, for some reason I thought this was the F-4 thread, oops.

No problem, this thread has a tendency to go dormant at times so it can use the extra activity. It took 7 years and we're still not over 1000 posts, unlike the Mig thread that got there in the first week. Like they say, "use it or loose it".

[Aros]

That's the sad fate of the Old Gen jets. Amazing for the time they were released but with the constant advancement in technology, just like any technology things become obsolete within months. This F-16, the F-15 are good examples of Freewing's Old Gen jets that still hold up today due to their impressive scale fidelity and wow factor, but they need the help of the current inrunner tech to put them up to par with their New Gen mates, performance-wise. With some tweaks to the power system these older gen jets are just as exciting as the newer releases in recent years. Honestly, I sold my first 90mm F-16 years ago because it was a dog, too heavy for my liking, etc. Then one day I came across Jeff's Custom RC's Arctic Camo repaint of this bird and I had to have her again, painting her in the same Arctic Camo scheme, and with Hugh's guidance she became completely reborn.

She's a worthy gal with a little TLC. I hope more folks come to the same conclusion. Yes, the New Gen jets are fantastic, but let's not forget about these Old Gen beauties!

Here's his video that brought me back to this bird...Funny how a livery change can re-excite the juices...

[Hugh Wiedman]

That's the sad fate of the Old Gen jets. Amazing for the time they were released but with the constant advancement in technology, just like any technology things become obsolete within months. This F-16, the F-15 are good examples of Freewing's Old Gen jets that still hold up today due to their impressive scale fidelity and wow factor, but they need the help of the current inrunner tech to put them up to par with their New Gen mates, performance-wise. With some tweaks to the power system these older gen jets are just as exciting as the newer releases in recent years. Honestly, I sold my first 90mm F-16 years ago because it was a dog, too heavy for my liking, etc. Then one day I came across Jeff's Custom RC's Arctic Camo repaint of this bird and I had to have her again, painting her in the same Arctic Camo scheme, and with Hugh's guidance she became completely reborn.

She's a worthy gal with a little TLC. I hope more folks come to the same conclusion. Yes, the New Gen jets are fantastic, but let's not forget about these Old Gen beauties!

Here's his video that brought me back to this bird...Funny how a livery change can re-excite the juices...

Right on Aros. Unfortunately, the F-16 got "labeled" as a heavy flier when it first came out (and still has that reputation), and indeed it WAS considering it was powered by a 9 blade 1650 or 1750 Kv outrunner. I love the airframe so much that I had to get one against everyone's recommendations (especially with all the included missals and AB), but was lucky enough to install the 12 blade 1835 kv inrunner at the suggestion of several in this thread. Now I can put "lead diving weights" in for a battery and it doesn't miss a beat and flies "forever" in EDF speak. What a difference. IMO, this F-16 with that fan is my best flying large EDF (along with the A-10). With all the different livery options and what I consider a well designed airframe/intricate main gear/other features by FW along with this inrunner, if it came out that way today I believe it would be "tearing the shelves up" at MRC. But of course the price would reflect that upgrade and still scare some off. And I'm sure that the original stock F-16 must have been a bear to get off of grass which added to the "not ready to buy" attitude-but that certainly is not so today.

Let's face it, the original stock F-4 and grey stock F-18 that had the same outrunner (and I have those as well) were definitely "underpowered", which is why they had to go to an 8S for the F-4 for those "more discerning" flyers (euphemism for those experienced pilots that knew what the heck they were doing-obviously not me) and ended up with the 1900 Kv inrunner today in the F-18 and F-4. My F-16 flies circles around my 2 F-4's and my F-18 (with that older outrunner), but not for long, as I have 2 more 12 blade inrunners on a FedEx truck as we speak.

I think the moral of the story is that all of these airframes are excellent, as pointed out by Aros, but with todays tech (EDF and Battery), what some of them need is that muscle 12 blade inrunner to bring the "air beast" out. When the full scale F-22 came out, the "old" F-16 still beat the pants off it in dogfighting exercises, but couldn't match up on the stealth. Imagine what the Mig would be like if it came out 4 years ago with the lower Kv 80 mm outrunners available at that time. That thread would have about 100 posts today and everyone would be saying it flew like a pig (aka the E-Flight SU-30).

So DCORSAIR we may have gotten a bit off track mentioning the F-4, my fault, but the real point for the F-16 thread was the 12 blade inrunner and that's what we were discussing that you put in the F-4, so right on point. The "Old" F-16 was like a Victoria Secret Model wearing a gunny sack over her head and her body is a large plastic garbage bag. Put the 12 bladed inrunner in her, and "she's back in her bra and panties", right where she belongs!!

[Mizer67]

Hugh,

Minor point but I think you mixed up the F-35 and the F-22. The F-22 has been described as an "F-15 on steroids" in a dogfight. I believe in BVR the mock kill ratio is >200:1. In WVR though, much worse. Once WVR, there's nothing magical about the F-22, but it doesn't have the same reputation as the F-35.

The F-35A isn't a rate machine like the F-16. If it gets in a WVR engagement with an F-16, the pilot made a mistake, but it's also probably dead if the F-16 has a competent pilot, without a high off boresight Fox-2 shot with an AIM-9X. There's a lot of growth left in the air frame though. Come a decade from now it'll grow into its own like the F-16 did.

[Hugh Wiedman]

Hugh,

Minor point but I think you mixed up the F-35 and the F-22. The F-22 has been described as an "F-15 on steroids" in a dogfight. I believe in BVR the mock kill ratio is >200:1. In WVR though, much worse. Once WVR, there's nothing magical about the F-22, but it doesn't have the same reputation as the F-35.

The F-35A isn't a rate machine like the F-16. If it gets in a WVR engagement with an F-16, the pilot made a mistake, but it's also probably dead if the F-16 has a competent pilot, without a high off boresight Fox-2 shot with an AIM-9X. There's a lot of growth left in the air frame though. Come a decade from now it'll grow into its own like the F-16 did.

Very true, I did mix up the F-22 and the F-35, as the F-16 initially was much better in close in dogfights than the F-35 but did not have the advantage of stealth or advanced avionics (but Lockheed has been working on that so today, much closer in dogfighting capabilities). However, a large number of ex-fighter pilots still believe the F-16 was/is the best in a dogfight (stealth not withstanding) as it was more maneuverable and had a better thrust to weight ratio without all the weight of the upgraded electronics in the nose. And compared to the F-18, it could quickly outclimb it, nose over and have the F-18 in it's HUD display before breakfast. That maneuverability along with the relative cheap cost compared to the F22/35 is one reason it is still in production today, but Lockheed M exports them to our allies. But wait, just when you thought it was safe to go back in the water, LM upgraded the F-16 in 2020 to their new "Block 70" version, with modern day avionics. Bahrain is getting these and they are the most advanced F-16's ever made, would love to have one parked in my driveway!

[Aros]

Here's the damage. I started on the repairs. I am using this fantastic stuff called Wonderfill. Looks and has the same consistency as spackle but MUCH better. Sands great and the finish is far superior to spackle. I use Gorilla Tape to help keep the seams I glued together. I will fill the areas in, sand and repeat until paint. I'm needing the cockpit but it's out of stock. Anyone have a spare you wouldn't mind selling?

[Hugh Wiedman]

Here's his video that brought me back to this bird...Funny how a livery change can re-excite the juices...

This video and your photos and videos just make me want to get a 2nd and do the Artic Aggressor!! But don't you love that 12 blade inrunner! You have to get one of the Hobbystar 8000's and try it with that. Imagine flying an agile and quick 90 mm foam EDF fighter jet around for over 5 minutes, yanking/banking/& cranking. Is this a possible glimpse into the future of foam EDF's and technical advances? Let's hope so. Hate to keep beating the F-16/12 blade inrunner/Hobbystar 8000 drum, but this thing just keeps me up late at night wishing I was out flying it.

[DCORSAIR]

Great guys, showing all these F-16 pictures and videos, now I want another one, sold all my EDF jets to get back into scale helicopters, would love to have another F-16, I had the F-4, F-5, F-18, F-15, F-16, A-4, T-45, F-22, F-35, L-39, Yak 130, F-104, Eurofighter, and the A-10, my favorite to fly was the F-16, just a fun EDF jet all around for me, flies very scale and tracks like its on rails..

[chemac]

Quick question is the FMS super scorpion power system good enough for the fw f16 90mm

[Aros]

lol, yep you guys have to feel my pain how just showing some photos or video can make the itch grow!

Well I patched her up best I could. Not perfect, but good enough. Just need the complete cockpit now...

[Hugh Wiedman]

lol, yep you guys have to feel my pain how just showing some photos or video can make the itch grow!

Well I patched her up best I could. Not perfect, but good enough. Just need the complete cockpit now...

Back in the saddle, great work, she looks good as new! Got to get some of that "Wonderfill" you used at Amazon, hopefully I can also find some "WonderFly"!

[Aros]

Back in the saddle, great work, she looks good as new! Got to get some of that "Wonderfill" you used at Amazon, hopefully I can also find some "WonderFly"!

Thank you fine sir! Get that Wonderfill in your laboratory pronto!

[dsmithwc04]

Can anybody help me with a quick question on the FW 90mm F16. I need to get a new fuselage from Motion but not sure if it comes with a few things. Does it come with the servo mix board, landing light, gear doors, and afterburner ring?

[gooniac33]

Got mine back in the air this weekend!! The thing is a monster with the FMS 8s fan in there!! It sounds and looks a lot like a turbine! As soon as I get my Runcam back up there will be some more video...