Official Freewing 90mm F-16 Falcon Thread

[DCORSAIR]

For a moment I thought we had it, I didn't have the throttle trim set to low (Spectrum radio). Moved it down but still no luck. The BEC is direct wired into my battery cables as shown on this pic so I don't need to plug it into a receiver channel. I didn't do it, it's the way it came. Makes me wonder since you mentioned it, did some come like mine with the BEC wired into the battery leads and some needing to be plugged into the receiver?

Yes, you have to plug the wire coming off of the BEC into an open channel for it to get power, the BEC should light up red. You should have a green ferrit ring, which is a noise filter basically and a male plug on the end of that wire that will plug into an open channel on your rx.

[Hugh Wiedman]

Now I know why the leads didn't reach the ESC. The original came off to the side while the new EDF has the wiring coming out the back. That places the wires further back on the new EDF and also has them turning back 180* where the original is only a 90* turn. The pic will give you a better idea. I've lined them up where the fan shroud begins and both shrouds are the same length. It's how the wires exit the motor that's causing the issue of it not being a straight drop in replacement.

Now if I could figure out the ESC, I'd rather not buy one and considering this is a "new" one I'm hoping I can trouble shoot it. I did find what I think is the correct manual online and it says: Trouble - "After power on, motor does not work, such an alert tone is emitted: “beep-, beep-, beep-” (Every “beep-” has a time interval of about 0.25 second)". Possible Reason - "The throttle stick is not in the bottom (lowest) position". I've tried it several times with the throttle at the bottom but I still get the beeps. I even put the original EDF back in just to see. The biggest difference was the beeps were louder and the "stutters" with the fan were more pronounced.

If I do have to buy a new EDF, do you have a recommendation? It doesn't look like the original EDF is sold by Motion any longer, the closest Freewing EDF is the 150A for 8S power systems. Have you heard anything about the Geico EDFs? There's about. a $40 difference between the Freewing and Geico ESCs.

My recommendation is to stay away from the Gecko ESC. I purchased the F-16 ARF version 4 months ago and the upgraded inrunner along with the Gecko 150 amp ESC. The ESC had major timing issues and every 3rd or 4th time reducing power to zero, it would not engage again and needed to "recycle". Never flew it with that ESC and returned it to Motion and they told me that yes, some of the Gecko ESCs have timing issues, my luck to get one. The only cure is to buy the additional Gecko programming card and reset the timing until it works properly-way beyond my mental capabilities, so I just returned it and replaced it with a Castle 130 amp Phoenix with 5amp BEC , which works outstanding. Added a Castle 10amp BEC for extra safety, but if you stay with the Freewing 130 amp ESC it will work fine with the inrunner and includes an 8 amp BEC, enough for the F-16. The Castle comes without the bullet connectors soldered on, so I was able to make the cables the right length to fit. Others in this thread that have the upgraded inrunner have used the stock 130 Freewing ESC and say it works perfect and is a drop in fit so not sure why yours is not.

If the Freewing ESC 's cables are too short, another option may be to add extensions to the cables, although this requires getting a set of 4mm male & female bullet connectors and some 13 AWG wire, all of which Motion has and solder yourself 3 extensions. I think DCCorsair's "fix" is the most prudent. I also cut a new wooden plate and removed some foam to the front of the fan casing to mount the Castle ESC but not because I needed more cable length, but because the existing wooden plate had spaces in the wrong place to mount my ESC.

Let us know what you finally decide, but spending extra bucks on another ESC seems to be a waste.

[Phantom]

Well I purchased the ARF plus 90mm F-16C T-Bird. Then I placed a 9bladed 6s 90mm 3748-1750kv outrunner. I was hoping by saving a couple of ounces on a lighter setup, 9 blades instead of 12 for a little more efficiency, l would have a somewhat scale flight profile minus full blown aerobatics...

Let me start off by saying, DAMN this bird is heavy! It was heavy when I took just the fuselage, absent of a power system out the box.

I spoke here before about going to 8s... I've got a couple of re-power options coming. One 6s and two 8s...

The current power system, is good for take off after a very long ground roll at 100%, and limping around the pattern at 70% or greater once she's in a clean configuration, anything less results in a descent. I'll keep you folks updated...

[DCORSAIR]

Well I purchased the ARF plus 90mm F-16C T-Bird. Then I placed a 9bladed 6s 90mm 3748-1750kv outrunner. I was hoping by saving a couple of ounces on a lighter setup, 9 blades instead of 12 for a little more efficiency, l would have a somewhat scale flight profile minus full blown aerobatics...

Let me start off by saying, DAMN this bird is heavy! It was heavy when I took just the fuselage, absent of a power system out the box.

I spoke here before about going to 8s... I've got a couple of re-power options coming. One 6s and two 8s...

The current power system, is good for take off after a very long ground roll at 100%, and limping around the pattern at 70% or greater once she's in a clean configuration, anything less results in a descent. I'll keep you folks updated...

I've had five of these so far, I tend to wear them out, put the 1835kv in it and fly it, it is heavy no matter what you do really, the thing is with the F-16, give it a chance and put as many flights on it as you can, move your CG around until you get it right, usually around 118mm-120mm is good, yeah it is nose heavy but flies better I think and landings are so much easier. This jet takes time to understand how it wants to be flown, I take off and do rolls with it as the gear is coming up and it loops right after takeoff as well, I know this sounds kind of strange, but when you watch the full scale demos it actually likes to be flown like that and it is faster than you think, do a high speed pass and pull vertical, that is with the 1835 installed and see, its not bad and you can do a few rolls on the way up, I just love the looks and the gear is nice and scale, don't give up, put some flights on it and get used ot it and I bet you will begin to like it......

[Aros]

Freewing (with Motion's guidance and partnership) have made great strides in improving these EDF jets with each passing year. What I would really like to see in the next generation of EPO EDF jets is improving overall AUW. The 90mm F-16 is a looker but as pointed out, she really needs to go on a diet. It has kept me from getting another one since I bought one when it first came out years back. I think the F-22 and F-4 are great examples of two new gen jets that have the size and looks, but not the weight. In the prop world, I feel the same about the FlightLine P-38. Wonderful model in many ways but the wing load/weight is too high for my preference.

There are so many factors that contribute to heavier models I understand. I can only imagine the difficulty in providing world-class EPO jets with the scale looks and features we love while maintaining a lower AUW. But I have seen many advancements over the years and I am convinced if anyone can do it Freewing can.

[DCORSAIR]

Freewing (with Motion's guidance and partnership) have made great strides in improving these EDF jets with each passing year. What I would really like to see in the next generation of EPO EDF jets is improving overall AUW. The 90mm F-16 is a looker but as pointed out, she really needs to go on a diet. It has kept me from getting another one since I bought one when it first came out years back. I think the F-22 and F-4 are great examples of two new gen jets that have the size and looks, but not the weight. In the prop world, I feel the same about the FlightLine P-38. Wonderful model in many ways but the wing load/weight is too high for my preference.

There are so many factors that contribute to heavier models I understand. I can only imagine the difficulty in providing world-class EPO jets with the scale looks and features we love while maintaining a lower AUW. But I have seen many advancements over the years and I am convinced if anyone can do it Freewing can.

Yep your are right and yes it could go on a diet, but I like heavy jets and planes actually, the weight is what makes this one fly like it does, scale flights are really fun when you see it skidding around in the turns, take it up into a loop and pull full elevator and watch the tail skid up and the nose drops, flies scale thats for sure, I hope they keep it as is myself, maybe sell it with the 1835 already in it though.

[Aros]

I can see that actually. I just prefer the lighter wing-loaded aircraft personally. But to each their own, and there's no wrong or right, simply preference. I am totally tempted to snag another one...Get the ARF + and add that inrunner system most are using and paint her up Arctic Camo and enjoy the girl for what she is.

[DCORSAIR]

I can see that actually. I just prefer the lighter wing-loaded aircraft personally. But to each their own, and there's no wrong or right, simply preference. I am totally tempted to snag another one...Get the ARF + and add that inrunner system most are using and paint her up Arctic Camo and enjoy the girl for what she is.

My buddy had the 70mm Artic Camo F-16, talk about hard to see, that camo paint job works.........

Hope you do get another one and try it with the 1835kv, still a heavy bird but with some thrust.

[F106DeltaDart]

One of the reasons I love using the FMS fan in mine is the lighter weight. It made the airplane feel significantly lighter between the higher thrust and lower weight. Either option seems like it provides great results though!

[Aros]

I have heard nothing but good things about that FMS fan...Do you mind posting all the details (links)? I may go that route. Many thanks!

[gooniac33]

Well I purchased the ARF plus 90mm F-16C T-Bird. Then I placed a 9bladed 6s 90mm 3748-1750kv outrunner. I was hoping by saving a couple of ounces on a lighter setup, 9 blades instead of 12 for a little more efficiency, l would have a somewhat scale flight profile minus full blown aerobatics...

Let me start off by saying, DAMN this bird is heavy! It was heavy when I took just the fuselage, absent of a power system out the box.

I spoke here before about going to 8s... I've got a couple of re-power options coming. One 6s and two 8s...

The current power system, is good for take off after a very long ground roll at 100%, and limping around the pattern at 70% or greater once she's in a clean configuration, anything less results in a descent. I'll keep you folks updated...

The plane will fly heavy if you don't let it pick up speed. These birds are a lesson in energy management. Even when they are overpowered they can seem heavy but they really just need to be flown properly. When they first came out the fan was a 1450kv outrunner and they flew fabulous! You just couldn't take off and yank the nose up the whole time and expect it to power through. Take off at full power and climb out at a 45degree angle or less then drop throttle to about half, level off pick up speed and then climb a little more. That is usually about one lap around the field. By that time you should be at least 400-600 feet in altitude. You then turn all of that altitude into momentum. Point the noise down and get some speed. Its really good to learn how to do this and then you will never say that a plane has no power and is a pig. You just need to learn how to use what you have...

Now that being said.... the new F-16 is a really nice bird! The upgraded 12 blade rotor and motor has transformed how the plane flies! Merry Boozers posted a video of him flying it at Joe Nall and it looked like it was using an inrunner! It was the new stock outrunner set up and it was really impressive!! I Hope that I haven't posted this already but here it is. Take a look and I am seriously considering getting this new version!

Or if you want a lighter 6s set up put in an FMS fan. You won't gain a whole lot of speed but the plane will for sure lose weight, climb like crazy and also gain some flight time as well! It made a huge difference in my F-104 and can help this plane as well.

Now I am also working on a couple new inrunner set ups that will be really good! I will soon have one in my F-22 that I will share...

[F106DeltaDart]

I have heard nothing but good things about that FMS fan...Do you mind posting all the details (links)? I may go that route. Many thanks!

Sure! I used this fan/motor: http://www.fmsmodel.com/fms-90mm-12-...fan-with-motor and upgraded to this ESC: https://hobbyking.com/en_us/yep-150a...ontroller.html. Using the stock ESC is possible, but has has mixed results. My stock ESC died when using the FMS fan (even set to low timing), but others have used it with success. As Gooniac said, it is not all that much faster, but is much lighter and has much improved vertical climb performance.

[Aros]

Good to know, thanks!

[Phantom]

I've had five of these so far, I tend to wear them out, put the 1835kv in it and fly it, it is heavy no matter what you do really, the thing is with the F-16, give it a chance and put as many flights on it as you can, move your CG around until you get it right, usually around 118mm-120mm is good, yeah it is nose heavy but flies better I think and landings are so much easier. This jet takes time to understand how it wants to be flown, I take off and do rolls with it as the gear is coming up and it loops right after takeoff as well, I know this sounds kind of strange, but when you watch the full scale demos it actually likes to be flown like that and it is faster than you think, do a high speed pass and pull vertical, that is with the 1835 installed and see, its not bad and you can do a few rolls on the way up, I just love the looks and the gear is nice and scale, don't give up, put some flights on it and get used ot it and I bet you will begin to like it......

DCORSAIR,

I kicked around the idea of the 1835kv as it seems to be the top of the line power option on Motion. But that power option along with the ESC will be 260.00 to 300.00 and add additional weight. Not a big deal as this hobby can be expensive especially for jets, I have to balance between cost and the flight experience gained.

I hesitated on it due to my experience re powering my FW F-86 80mm with the FMS 80MM with the 2100 or 2150kv motor, can't remember which off the top of my head... The results were positive all around, the setup was lighter, more efficient, more static thrust, a little more speed, but a lot more vertical. It woke the bird up and gave me an additional 30 to 60 seconds of flying time depending on what maneuver I'm preforming.

So I am heading the way of FMS and another manufacturer to try to repower her using the same money or less to try and duplicate my success I experienced with my Sabre. You don't have to worry about my fondness for this bird, I love the looks and the way she flies, I'd just like to fly her without having my throttle stick permanently buried at the 12 O'clock position.

I apologize for the delayed response, Hobbysquawk seems to have to have stopped sending me notifications. Thanks for your advice.

[Phantom]

The plane will fly heavy if you don't let it pick up speed. These birds are a lesson in energy management. Even when they are overpowered they can seem heavy but they really just need to be flown properly. When they first came out the fan was a 1450kv outrunner and they flew fabulous! You just couldn't take off and yank the nose up the whole time and expect it to power through. Take off at full power and climb out at a 45degree angle or less then drop throttle to about half, level off pick up speed and then climb a little more. That is usually about one lap around the field. By that time you should be at least 400-600 feet in altitude. You then turn all of that altitude into momentum. Point the noise down and get some speed. Its really good to learn how to do this and then you will never say that a plane has no power and is a pig. You just need to learn how to use what you have...

Now that being said.... the new F-16 is a really nice bird! The upgraded 12 blade rotor and motor has transformed how the plane flies! Merry Boozers posted a video of him flying it at Joe Nall and it looked like it was using an inrunner! It was the new stock outrunner set up and it was really impressive!! I Hope that I haven't posted this already but here it is. Take a look and I am seriously considering getting this new version!

Or if you want a lighter 6s set up put in an FMS fan. You won't gain a whole lot of speed but the plane will for sure lose weight, climb like crazy and also gain some flight time as well! It made a huge difference in my F-104 and can help this plane as well.

Now I am also working on a couple new inrunner set ups that will be really good! I will soon have one in my F-22 that I will share...

I hear what you are saying Gooniac, I am more than capable of flying her in the rollercoaster style, I just don't want to be locked in to only one style, she's capable of so much more.

The 1650kv it comes with didn't impress me on Merry Boozers flight, that video is the reason I purchased the ARF plus. The performance prior to the upgraded 1650kv was the reason this was one of the last jets I purchased from Motion.


I apologize for the delayed response, Hobbysquawk seems to have to have stopped sending me notifications. Thanks for your advice.

[DCORSAIR]

DCORSAIR,

I kicked around the idea of the 1835kv as it seems to be the top of the line power option on Motion. But that power option along with the ESC will be 260.00 to 300.00 and add additional weight. Not a big deal as this hobby can be expensive especially for jets, I have to balance between cost and the flight experience gained.

I hesitated on it due to my experience re powering my FW F-86 80mm with the FMS 80MM with the 2100 or 2150kv motor, can't remember which off the top of my head... The results were positive all around, the setup was lighter, more efficient, more static thrust, a little more speed, but a lot more vertical. It woke the bird up and gave me an additional 30 to 60 seconds of flying time depending on what maneuver I'm preforming.

So I am heading the way of FMS and another manufacturer to try to repower her using the same money or less to try and duplicate my success I experienced with my Sabre. You don't have to worry about my fondness for this bird, I love the looks and the way she flies, I'd just like to fly her without having my throttle stick permanently buried at the 12 O'clock position.

I apologize for the delayed response, Hobbysquawk seems to have to have stopped sending me notifications. Thanks for your advice.

Ok, I understand the cost thing for sure, I bought the FMS 90mm 1900 kv after all the hype I heard about it and installed it in my F-15, I didn't see anything as far as performance, actually thought it was worse than the stock 1550 myself, then I went with the 1835 in the F-15 and loved it, so I put the FMS unit in the F-4 Phantom and the same thing, not much better than the stock 9 blade, so I went with the 1835kv in it as well, I didn't bother installing it in my F-16 after those results and it requires a little surgery to install the FMS unit and I didn't want to do that. I will be wanting to hear from you if you install this unit and see how you like it, I enjoy flying mine as is with the FW 1835kv and will keep it in there for now.

[Bellke]

Does anyone know what size the bullet connectors are on the original EDF that comes with the plane?

[Phantom]

Ok, I understand the cost thing for sure, I bought the FMS 90mm 1900 kv after all the hype I heard about it and installed it in my F-15, I didn't see anything as far as performance, actually thought it was worse than the stock 1550 myself, then I went with the 1835 in the F-15 and loved it, so I put the FMS unit in the F-4 Phantom and the same thing, not much better than the stock 9 blade, so I went with the 1835kv in it as well, I didn't bother installing it in my F-16 after those results and it requires a little surgery to install the FMS unit and I didn't want to do that. I will be wanting to hear from you if you install this unit and see how you like it, I enjoy flying mine as is with the FW 1835kv and will keep it in there for now.

Ok so apparently in my passion for re-powering this bird I purchased an 8s 90mm from MRC. As it is the first one to arrive it gets first dibs. It's the 90mm, 12 blade, 4075-1390kv inrunner I believe it's the same one out of the 8s YAK-130. My question is what it's the second servo connector coming off the hobbywing ESC for? The short one?

[Skyboom]

It's saying it's for a programming cable. I've never used one before. Hope it helps.

[PaulZ]

Ok so apparently in my passion for re-powering this bird I purchased an 8s 90mm from MRC. As it is the first one to arrive it gets first dibs. It's the 90mm, 12 blade, 4075-1390kv inrunner I believe it's the same one out of the 8s YAK-130. My question is what it's the second servo connector coming off the hobbywing ESC for? The short one?

The extra lead is for attaching the Hobbywing programming card to change ESC settings. I would advice to check these settings before you fly as you don't know what they are set to in the factory. Most important is timing, these motors work best with "medium" timing setting. The rpm of the motors change with with different timing. I am curious how the model will perform with 8s? I found that the 1835kv 6s setup was the best compromise between weight and thrust.