Official Freewing 90mm F-16 Falcon Thread

[Gravythe clown]

Yeah that’s why I stop buy eflite and blade stuff a long time ago. They practically discontinue an item the day after the reveal it.

Gravy

[Aros]

That's why I rarely buy E-flite. They are well known for discontinuing their models in a heartbeat.

[James]

That's why I rarely buy E-flite. They are well known for discontinuing their models in a heartbeat.

Yeah that is always surprising considering the costs involved with making a new model. I'll be with Motion for 4 years this summer and Freewing has yet to discontinue any of the models introduced in my time frame let alone a majority of them that were released probably in your tenure too.

That said, this 80mm F-16 looks great for sure, but the lengths I see the marketing rep downplaying the 90mm Freewing to upsell the 80mm just seems odd. We have never marketed a plane in that way. We just market why our plane is awesome, not why it's "better" than a competitor model. And also he was using old information like how it used to not come with ordnance (the grey one has come with it for a long time now) and that it was underpowered (which was the case probably with the original power system, but now it has the inrunner).

That said, as a marketer, I never really had the chance to market a model from Freewing in my tenure that had a very similar-sized competitor version except for the FlightLine Corsair, But the FMS 1700mm was over 6 years old at that juncture so it should be "better". Most models Freewing produces are usually the only version of said model until others produce a version. Since I have been here off the top of my head the Freewing (Flightline) list is:

F-8 Crusader
F104 Thunderchief
Lippisch
BAe Hawk (before FMS)
F/A18C (Before Eflite)
F-22
MiG-29
Gripen
T-33
F-35
L-39
AL37
B-24
Corsair
OV-10
Dora 850mm
P-51 850mm

Wow, never really laid them out there. That's a great list! All still available, spare parts still available, and this represents maybe 15-20% of the total models available by Freewing.

Longevity is maybe an underappreciated value in an RC model. If you buy a Freewing, you can be sure you bought a model that you will be able to service/upgrade, etc for a long time without worry.

[Mizer67]

I've wanted a big F-16 for a while. But I'm completely not enamored with 80mm models that weigh >=3200 grams with a battery installed.

E-Flite very quickly cuts away from or avoids any real verticals, just like with the Rafale. Their new planes badly need to go on a diet. I'm sure they know what will sell to their market and the scale features are nice, but for me, if they come at a severe performance penalty the juice isn't worth the squeeze.

It looks like the FW F-16 is the only real option in my book at a size that's still easily transportable. Having a 90mm fan option makes a big difference. I wish the trend wasn't towards heavier and towards 80mm models. I don't find 80mms worth the the compromises any longer at the size and weight planes are being made.

[Gravythe clown]

Yeah I see there point comparing the new scaled down version with 2021 jet tech to a model that first came out in 2014 (almost 7 years ago). That’s like comparing your 21 year old girlfriend to your 50 year old wife. However my 50 year old wife has been upgraded and blows your 21 year old girlfriend away.
also like how they talk about the scale gear as though it’s the newest thing since sliced bread.

I am though happily waiting for my 90mm Tbird.
it was the last 90mm F-16 motion had on Friday they had 3, two ARF’s and the open box Tbird. On Saturday they had only the open box.
Maybe HH just did for the freewing F-16 the our née administration did for gun sales. IDK. But I got mine in both cases.

Gravy

[rifleman_btx]

Here's mine next to its F100 Tbird counterpart

[DCORSAIR]

I have bragged on this jet from day one, I've had 5 of them so far, I was about to get another one but they went out of stock so I bought the A-4 instead, but it just doesn't fit my need for speed or flying, so I might just have to get another F-16, they just fly awesome..

[SanExup]

James It's a little funny that I look at some of your 'old' models, like the F5, and to me, they are high on my list of wants as the Mig 29, F4, or F18.

Don't be drawn into an arms race with a competitor that uses another companies products for development and then a baseline for comparison, it will likely bring higher costs thus higher pricing and diminishing returns. Maybe I'm totally wrong, but to me H is another predatory company where the management has more eyes on defeating the competition (the bottom line) than on products and longevity (quality, parts availability, customer satisfaction) being offered. We all want new planes but not at the expense of quality and longevity. Though I do recognize some people purchase a new model just because it's new. A long term customer isn't bred from one glitzy product.

It's interesting how many people own multiple of the same FL or FW plane, ok sure some from crashing or wanting to update. But I bet people own multiples of planes that are aesthetically satisfying and just fly extremely well. And that has parts available!

I still want an F5, I don't care that it's not a new model. And I would like a Mig 29, I'm not talking smack, just patiently waiting.

I'm sure that the times are confusing to keep the growth going. New customers, new to the hobby customers, are real sales, and making comparisons are what consumers do but the return customers are probably the bread and butter, and a few more smart bells, LED lights, and whistles aren't worth multiple hundreds more to me, especially if performance is close to the average for whichever model is being compared. Ok, the plastic around the canopy, having more power and efficiency, better landing gear, ok, better lights and light controllers, these are value additions. But not hand over fist quality improvements.The data telemetry is cool but it can be had with less expensive currently available options. And if the model is flying slow and sluggish, having data isn't going to cure any buyer's remorse I might have. The long haul hobbyists will recognize true substance and purchase within that criteria. I will purchase eflite models and I will purchase Motionrc's models, for certain. Just continue doing the great jobs that you're doing.

Funny thing is, I flew my Turbo Timber the other night. It was so fun. Took off in a couple of feet, climbs steeply, lands steeply. Flies inverted with ease. The battery bay still irritates me a little. It doesn't have thrust reversing but in the few feet that it lands, I don't know if I could trigger it fast enough to make it super useful. I like the Draco, I like what M. Patey does, it's all super cool. But while I initially wanted it when I first saw it was being released, now I'm glad I held off. In my opinion, it looks like a Nascar winner with all of the advertisements. Though my T Timber did too a little before I peeled the stickers and painted it. To me this detail sums up how I feel about the development of new models. Quality before stickers!


I know the Draco has quality, I'm not looking to debate that. I just don't see the added features making me overlook the price. I'm am enthusiastic hobbyist but first a consumer.

I'm really excited for the Bison though!

As for the new Eflite F16, those wheels are way too small to work for my flying fields.

[Gilatrout]

James It's a little funny that I look at some of your 'old' models, like the F5, and to me, they are high on my list of wants as the Mig 29, F4, or F18.

Don't be drawn into an arms race with a competitor that uses another companies products for development and then a baseline for comparison, it will likely bring higher costs thus higher pricing and diminishing returns. Maybe I'm totally wrong, but to me H is another predatory company where the management has more eyes on defeating the competition (the bottom line) than on products and longevity (quality, parts availability, customer satisfaction) being offered. We all want new planes but not at the expense of quality and longevity. Though I do recognize some people purchase a new model just because it's new. A long term customer isn't bred from one glitzy product.

It's interesting how many people own multiple of the same FL or FW plane, ok sure some from crashing or wanting to update. But I bet people own multiples of planes that are aesthetically satisfying and just fly extremely well. And that has parts available!

I still want an F5, I don't care that it's not a new model. And I would like a Mig 29, I'm not talking smack, just patiently waiting.

I'm sure that the times are confusing to keep the growth going. New customers, new to the hobby customers, are real sales, and making comparisons are what consumers do but the return customers are probably the bread and butter, and a few more smart bells, LED lights, and whistles aren't worth multiple hundreds more to me, especially if performance is close to the average for whichever model is being compared. Ok, the plastic around the canopy, having more power and efficiency, better landing gear, ok, better lights and light controllers, these are value additions. But not hand over fist quality improvements.The data telemetry is cool but it can be had with less expensive currently available options. And if the model is flying slow and sluggish, having data isn't going to cure any buyer's remorse I might have. The long haul hobbyists will recognize true substance and purchase within that criteria. I will purchase eflite models and I will purchase Motionrc's models, for certain. Just continue doing the great jobs that you're doing.

Funny thing is, I flew my Turbo Timber the other night. It was so fun. Took off in a couple of feet, climbs steeply, lands steeply. Flies inverted with ease. The battery bay still irritates me a little. It doesn't have thrust reversing but in the few feet that it lands, I don't know if I could trigger it fast enough to make it super useful. I like the Draco, I like what M. Patey does, it's all super cool. But while I initially wanted it when I first saw it was being released, now I'm glad I held off. In my opinion, it looks like a Nascar winner with all of the advertisements. Though my T Timber did too a little before I peeled the stickers and painted it. To me this detail sums up how I feel about the development of new models. Quality before stickers!


I know the Draco has quality, I'm not looking to debate that. I just don't see the added features making me overlook the price. I'm am enthusiastic hobbyist but first a consumer.

I'm really excited for the Bison though!

As for the new Eflite F16, those wheels are way too small to work for my flying fields.

I like the F5, but I LOVE the T38. Hint hint

[Tigerman]

Funny you should say that about Eflite discontinuing model quickly .I did buy a eflite model and within a month I broke a retract leg and could not buy a new one from Horizion Hobby because it was discontinued I did sort it out by going on e bay and found a second hand one .I have never had that problem with Freewing/Flightline .Out of Stock yes but if you wat it will come back in stock eventually and I can not fault Motion RC Customer Service .So on second thought bearing that in mind about the spare parts I think I would be better off with the Freewing version then
Thanks for the info 👍

[Hugh Wiedman]

Funny you should say that about Eflite discontinuing model quickly .I did buy a eflite model and within a month I broke a retract leg and could not buy a new one from Horizion Hobby because it was discontinued I did sort it out by going on e bay and found a second hand one .I have never had that problem with Freewing/Flightline .Out of Stock yes but if you wat it will come back in stock eventually and I can not fault Motion RC Customer Service .So on second thought bearing that in mind about the spare parts I think I would be better off with the Freewing version then
Thanks for the info 👍

From a FW 90mm F-16 owner, I have to say a very wise decision! A very good friend was thinking of getting the E-Flight F-16 and I think I was able to talk him out of it. He's flown with me with my F-16 on the 12 blade inrunner hauling an SMC 8100 mah battery around and taking off of grass, and it now looks like he's going to "one up me" and get the Thunderbird ARF but put an 8S system in it! I'm starting to hate him more every day. I truly believe the HH 80mm EDF's are underpowered, especially for grass ops.

[rifleman_btx]

I don't know why but I keep having major issues landing my f16, I can land every other jet I have without a problem, but this one, I just can't figure out I feel like I'm coming in too fast or something, I just can't figure it out. It's embarrassing honestly. Only other thing I can think is the narrow undercarriage on the grass field. It keeps tipping on its side when the nose gear contacts. To be fair to the plane the grass was way tall as the guy who normally mows couldn't because it has been raining for 4 days straight til about 5am this morning. Some parts of the grass was almost 6 inches high. So that is probably the major contributing factor. It was one of those I really want to fly even though I shouldn't moment. Winds were also gusting to 15mph. But the good news is she did get down in a flyable condition, so I just shutdown flying for the day all together

[T-CAT]

I've wanted a big F-16 for a while. But I'm completely not enamored with 80mm models that weigh >=3200 grams with a battery installed.

E-Flite very quickly cuts away from or avoids any real verticals, just like with the Rafale. Their new planes badly need to go on a diet. I'm sure they know what will sell to their market and the scale features are nice, but for me, if they come at a severe performance penalty the juice isn't worth the squeeze.

It looks like the FW F-16 is the only real option in my book at a size that's still easily transportable. Having a 90mm fan option makes a big difference. I wish the trend wasn't towards heavier and towards 80mm models. I don't find 80mms worth the the compromises any longer at the size and weight planes are being made.

Yeah, a 80mm EDF jet at the weight the E-Flite F-16 is coming in at is starting to get to a point where I’d like it to be a 90mm EDF jet. For the specs., it appears the E-flite F-16 80mm is only roughly 200g lighter than the Freewing F-16 90mm, has about a 1” smaller wingspan, and roughly 2” less in length. A 90mm EDF would be of benefit to me with those comparisons.

Even though the Freewing 90mm version is rather old now, it still wins over the E-Flite 80mm slightly for me (although I was never very impressed with the performance anyhow because it has quite of bit of scale features, and that weight adds up, so I don’t expect it to perform as if it doesn’t have the extra weight). I would imagine if the Freewing F-16 90mm EDF jet was just announced today, the design would be altered in ways that reflect more recent offerings.

Now, I like to give credit where credit is due, and the E-Flite does have some nice features that I wish the Freewing had (regardless of the fact that some could modified by the jet owner). The E-Flight F-16 80mm EDF jet has screw-less & glue-less removable ventral fins, screw-less and glue-less removable wingtip pylons, plastic capped leading edge extensions, plastic lined battery compartment/hatch, and white painted struts, and a more scale looking design on the main wheels. Off the top of my head, I can’t remember if there was anything additional.

[DCORSAIR]

I don't know why but I keep having major issues landing my f16, I can land every other jet I have without a problem, but this one, I just can't figure out I feel like I'm coming in too fast or something, I just can't figure it out. It's embarrassing honestly. Only other thing I can think is the narrow undercarriage on the grass field. It keeps tipping on its side when the nose gear contacts. To be fair to the plane the grass was way tall as the guy who normally mows couldn't because it has been raining for 4 days straight til about 5am this morning. Some parts of the grass was almost 6 inches high. So that is probably the major contributing factor. It was one of those I really want to fly even though I shouldn't moment. Winds were also gusting to 15mph. But the good news is she did get down in a flyable condition, so I just shutdown flying for the day all together

Two things are worth knowing about this jet. your CG location is important to land this jet right, to aft CG will float and then drop in on you, it kind of tricks you into cutting power to soon because it wants to float on past you, nose heavy is better on this one, cut your power in the turn to final and let it set up a nose high AOA, then hold it there with elevator and feather it in with the throttle, practice practice, when you take off don't put the gear up, just go around and line up until you get the feel of the right approach and speed, then it will click,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

[Aros]

Yep don't feel bad rifleman_btx, this one has challenged my ego more than a few times. I too have found this one to be more challenging to land than many of my other EDFs over the years. It's not that it's hard to land, it's that you just need to know HOW she likes to land, and once you have found that, she's easy peesy. DCORSAIR has sound advice. CG is vital of course and I too prefer a nose-heavy inclination. F-Modes are great for this bird...I have my setup for takeoff and landing with flaperons. Gets her off the ground quicker, and lands slower. She wants a high alpha orientation on the approach and landing. Don't worry, you're not alone, this one scuffed my ego many a times on the landing, lol.

[Gravythe clown]

So Aros, I’m guessing you’re using tailerons? I plan on using tailerons as well, have you posted your throws for tailerons and flaperons? Is so was it in this thread, if not do you mind sharing them?

thanks
Gravy

[rifleman_btx]

That definitely makes me feel better, I'm gonna do that next time out DC, I will get this one down, she's too pretty not to fly!

[Aros]

Hey Gravy, no tailerons, just flaperons. I don't recall adding any settings data to the thread but I can take a look...

[Hugh Wiedman]

Two things are worth knowing about this jet. your CG location is important to land this jet right, to aft CG will float and then drop in on you, it kind of tricks you into cutting power to soon because it wants to float on past you, nose heavy is better on this one, cut your power in the turn to final and let it set up a nose high AOA, then hold it there with elevator and feather it in with the throttle, practice practice, when you take off don't put the gear up, just go around and line up until you get the feel of the right approach and speed, then it will click,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Agree completely with you DC. For some reason, for me this is one of the easier jets to land (hope I didn't just jinx myself), but did take about 10-15 "practice" landing flights to get there and trying out different CG's and speeds. Once I found the CG and speed that works for me, it hasn't been an issue. I found that for my style/experience level/confidence level, etc. (probably slightly above average), it seems to land best at a CG of 125mm (book is 118mm - 128mm) gear down (128mm gear up). I also found that the throttle on approach is 35%, then reduced to 28% about 6 feet off the ground and 20% a foot off the ground. It starts going into a higher AoA at 28% and even more at 20% while slightly loosing altitude and then an additional flare just above the runway. I'm using the 12 blade inrunner, so my throttle settings are based upon that fan. As DC states, I found that at a too tail heavy CG of around 130-135mm, it does float at 20% throttle and get it's nose way up, then drops like a rock. On the other hand, at a CG of 118mm it doesn't seem to want to get it's nose up as easily, so for me, the 125mm CG worked out best. I am using flaperons to get off the grass quicker, so that also affects the landing speed vs no flaperons. My take-off "flap" are at 16mm and landing flaps only 23mm (as I didn't want to over extend the aileron servos), but those deflections helped quite a bit, at least IMO. And I fly it fully loaded with ordinance, which does slow it down a bit as well (but looks too bad a.. to go without).

[DCORSAIR]

That definitely makes me feel better, I'm gonna do that next time out DC, I will get this one down, she's too pretty not to fly!

Yeah, once you figue it out then you won't even think about the landing, it will be just turn, chop, glide, add a little throttle, hold the elevator, add a little power and flare, put that all together and you will have a big grin everytime.........