Official FMS 1500mm P-47D Razorback Thread

[F106DeltaDart]

Excellent work as always Dave! Looks great!

[Elbee]

davegee, Your finish is both excellent and realistic. Could it be.... ? Bravo Zulu, Sir. Best, LB

[davegee]

I just found this one from my I phone. It was taken at the same time as those in the previous post. But I really liked the whole composition of the sky, mountain, and plane together in the photo, this one "clean" without any ordnance stores, unretouched or photoshopped.

Cheers

Davegee

[davegee]

Here is a little obscure detail that is probably over the top for most, but one I found interesting. For the drop tanks on these airplanes, many times they used connectors that had a section of glass tubing connected to the flexible tube that attached the drop tank to the aircraft wing or belly. The purpose of the glass tube was to give a clean breakaway of the tank when jettisoned, usually just prior to entering armed combat with the enemy. Wouldn't make for a very good look if the hose held onto the airplane with that tank banging against it while trying to engage an enemy fighter! This idea worked very well to preclude a problem getting rid of a drop tank when needed.

I have two pics, one where the plane is upside down, and another where it is right-side up showing the clear tubing section. I used black electrical wire and the tube was 1/16" ID vinyl tubing bought on Amazon.

[Elbee]

davegee, We Americans can be quite clever. Nice touch. Best, LB

[jetfool]

Excellent details

[davegee]

davegee, We Americans can be quite clever. Nice touch. Best, LB

Thanks, Elbee. I first added these to a CARF 1/4.5 scale model of a P-51D that was and is part of an exhibit on the Scouting Forces in WWII. The museum is the 8th Air Force Museum in Savanah, GA. The plane was painted up as "Saucy Shirley" which was a girlfriend of a good friend of mine who passed away recently at 99 years. They used 110 gallon wing tanks to make their Scouting missions all the way to Berlin and back with the bombers. I found some pictures of these breakable glass tubes used on the Mustangs, and other fighters. I agree, it was a very clever idea on ensuring clean separation of drop tanks when needed. Due to a shortage of resources back at base, pilots were requested to bring the empty tanks home if they didn't have to jettison them on their missions.

I understand the clever Brits also used something like these on some of their RAF aircraft, too.

I'm attaching a photo I found while building the CARF 1:4.5 scale P-51D Mustang Saucy Shirley that I mentioned above. You can see some detail of the (simulated) glass tube on the fuel feed line. The tank itself was 3D printed, back in 2018 by a friend of mine. I can't find any of the finished pics of the airplane on display in Savannah right now, but will look for some. It was and is a pretty cool interactive display showcasing the Scouting Forces in WWII of which my friend who flew this aircraft was the "last of the Mohicans, the last man standing of about 100 pilots who were in the group in WWII. He was pretty well off so he funded the display for the Savannah museum that we installed in 2018.

Cheers

Davegee

[f4u ausie]

Must have been a long return trip,, berlin n back.. hot and uncomftable. The little tidbits keep us all learning... some of the droptanks in paper mache was the most intresting.... i think daveegee u years ago build big balsa, stuff,, what u do on ya foamies ,, leeds me to the conclusion that they must have been scale heavan(thebig balsa ply) as always great job,, and 4 the info

[davegee]

Must have been a long return trip,, berlin n back.. hot and uncomftable. The little tidbits keep us all learning... some of the droptanks in paper mache was the most intresting.... i think daveegee u years ago build big balsa, stuff,, what u do on ya foamies ,, leeds me to the conclusion that they must have been scale heavan(thebig balsa ply) as always great job,, and 4 the info

Hi f4u aussie: I got into rc flying in 2000. After getting up to speed with some trainers, I bought several Aerotech 1/6 scale carbon fiber P-47s that I entered in Team Scale contests around the USA. The last one I did with a friend of mine in Phoenix was a Yellow aircraft 1/6 scale P-47M that we competed with in Team Scale at several contests, including Top Gun in Florida. All these P-47s survived flying and are now in museums around the USA. It was fun, but expensive, and traveling around the country got old after a while. These days, I'm happy just to spruce up some foamies now that I'm retired, when I'm not busy with other museum projects. They all keep me busy. The larger 1/6 or 1/5 scale airplanes certainly allowed me to do a lot more detailing than I do on the foamies, but foamies are fun, too.

You're right about those long missions with the Scouts to Germany and back. I know even though they were all very young, sitting in those cramped cockpits for several hours, sometimes they had to be pulled out of the cockpits when they got back to base. They were just that exhausted, even being in top physical and mental shape!

[davegee]

Hi f4u aussie: I got into rc flying in 2000. After getting up to speed with some trainers, I bought several Aerotech 1/6 scale carbon fiber P-47s that I entered in Team Scale contests around the USA. The last one I did with a friend of mine in Phoenix was a Yellow aircraft 1/6 scale P-47M that we competed with in Team Scale at several contests, including Top Gun in Florida. All these P-47s survived flying and are now in museums around the USA. It was fun, but expensive, and traveling around the country got old after a while. These days, I'm happy just to spruce up some foamies now that I'm retired, when I'm not busy with other museum projects. They all keep me busy. The larger 1/6 or 1/5 scale airplanes certainly allowed me to do a lot more detailing than I do on the foamies, but foamies are fun, too.

You're right about those long missions with the Scouts to Germany and back. I know even though they were all very young, sitting in those cramped cockpits for several hours, sometimes they had to be pulled out of the cockpits when they got back to base. They were just that exhausted, even being in top physical and mental shape!

Hi f4u aussie: I know this is a little off topic for this thread, but since we got on the subject of Scouting Forces, I thought you and maybe some others might enjoy some pics I just found online from May 2018, when my wife and I drove a big U Haul truck from Denver to Savannah with the entire Scouting Forces display items. One of them was a CARF 1:4.5 (98 inch wingspan) fiberglass model of a P-51D that I repainted, and mounted on top of the display panels on a pole in a climbing, turning, attitude. All the markings on this airplane were painted on, no stickers. Even the small nomenclature were stencils and painted on. The pilot figure we got a photo of the pilot, Bill Getz, taken in 1944 in the cockpit of his plane. There was a service that could do a 3D print of the face and head if you had at least a frontal and side photo that they could use. It was almost eerie how close to the real person it was! I'll attach some pics here of the display which is still going on at the Mighty Eighth Air Museum in Savannah. It's a museum well worth taking in, if you are in the area.

[jetfool]

Davegee,

I have re-read all the posts and still amazed how great this turned out. I hope to install the mods on mine. Still undecided on the LUCKY vs SILVER QUEEN version. Either one would be great.

My first question is - as older age has crept up on me do you find it easier to see the silver vs the OD? OUR field gets pretty green in the summer, hay beyond flying field and tree line behind flight line, 80 ac to fly over.
Just the first question of many I'll be asking (bugging) you about. LOL

Best Regards, Rex

[davegee]

Hi Rex:I think you’re referring to Silver Lady ( HV-Z (bar)) which is a razorback using a. Ham Stan prop and spinner just like the Corsair had late in WWII and Korea. That would simplify mods you’d have to do to the propeller by adding cuffs and a pointed spinner.

Using Lucky flown by Johnson, for absolute scale you’d have to add the spinner and cuffs for the Curtiss Elctric prop. You’d have to decide what you’d want to do there.

I have an all-silver Penrose and Sam and two jugs that are camo colored. The key for me is to keep them in as tight as pattern as possible so I don’t make a mistake and crash it when I got too far away. That’s just me. I don’t find it a problem being silver or camo as long as I can see it easily. Probably a personal decision for you to make. Both planes would look cool.

cheers

Davegee

[jetfool]

Davegee,

I like to keep my planes in close also we just have a lot of frontal space that is open and over a hay field. Makes it easier on planes if they go down and to find.
I have never painted an OD scheme before, and Lucky would be an easy first time. Decisions, Decisions
Question #2 - Did you use Callies nomenclature for the lettering?

Thank You for the info, Rex

[davegee]

Davegee,

I like to keep my planes in close also we just have a lot of frontal space that is open and over a hay field. Makes it easier on planes if they go down and to find.
I have never painted an OD scheme before, and Lucky would be an easy first time. Decisions, Decisions
Question #2 - Did you use Callies nomenclature for the lettering?

Thank You for the info, Rex

Lucky would be a good one. And I can help you with the CE prop mods if you want to go to that detail. Not really all that much to do, except we need someone to design up the prop hub STL so I can print more out for you and me in the future. I totally agree it's probably good to start out flying with the stock prop to work into it. And then you can make the decision to changeout to the larger prop that we are talking about. For my planes, I used Tamiya spray rattlecans in US Olive Drab and Neutral Gray. Very easy to do, and those colors are spot-on.

Lucky was in your standard USAAF paint scheme for that time. They had the white bands on the cowl, vertical and horizontal stabilizers for a while as our own gunners on bombers were confusing them for FW-190s!

I did have Callie do my graphics. She's always great on those things, she might even have one on file that will make it easier to do.

Let me know your progress. Maybe you can sneak under the Christmas tree at night to work on it some, and then return it before morning each time so your wife doesn't suspect! HA!

Cheers

Davegee

[jetfool]

Davegee,
Johnson flew 2 different LUCKY's, one in late 43 with the white nose and one in 44 with the red nose. I like the red nose and Callie offers the decals for LUCKY
Our high school 3-D teacher has offered to print any parts I need and I'll ask him if his class would want to design the Curtiss spinner as a project. They use the mini-prusa for small projects so if they agree we will have the STL files to use also. We indoor fly next Sunday and the $5.00 entry fee goes to the industrial arts class, teacher runs the entry door and I will ask him then.
Question #3 - Have you found a 4-blade electric prop that resembles the Curtiss?

I'd like too but better half is a lite sleeper

Rex

[davegee]

Davegee,
Johnson flew 2 different LUCKY's, one in late 43 with the white nose and one in 44 with the red nose. I like the red nose and Callie offers the decals for LUCKY
Our high school 3-D teacher has offered to print any parts I need and I'll ask him if his class would want to design the Curtiss spinner as a project. They use the mini-prusa for small projects so if they agree we will have the STL files to use also. We indoor fly next Sunday and the $5.00 entry fee goes to the industrial arts class, teacher runs the entry door and I will ask him then.
Question #3 - Have you found a 4-blade electric prop that resembles the Curtiss?

I'd like too but better half is a lite sleeper

Rex

Hi Rex: I wasn't familiar with the "other" Lucky that Johnson flew. I have painted one of my FMS P-47s up as Penrod and Sam, where he scored his last two victories in the ETO, numbers 26 and 27. Just curious, was this actually another aircraft, or was this the same one but had the nose painted red in early 1944 as the painting scheme underwent a change?

Regarding the CE prop on the P-47, I never found an "exact" copy of one, but used the Corsair V3 prop and slid plastic cuffs on the base of each prop. I painted the prop hub silver, and it looks pretty close to the CE prop. Putting on the printed CE prop dome makes a pretty close approximation, IMHO. Remember when you have them design up the printed CE prop dome, you'll need to have the inside of the dome or spinner recessed a bit, so that the prop nut that secures the prop to the prop hub sits inside the prop dome and you don't see it when it is screwed in position.

If your school group is willing to tackle designing the prop cuffs as well, that would work better than the thin plastic ones that I glued on mine. But if they can't do that for any reason, the ones that I made up look believable and have stayed on the airplane for many flights.

Dave

[davegee]

Rex: I have a spare printed Curtiss prop hub that someone made for me a couple of years ago. It isn't perfect, but maybe would be a good start for your school group. I can send it to you to borrow if you like, if you get to that point. I think it is pretty close but the curve from a cylinder to the pointed tip is a little less than ideal, IMHO. Let me know if you want me to send it to you. You can PM me with the mailing address. Just a thought.

Cheers

Davegee

[jetfool]

Davegee,
Let me talk with the teacher next sunday to see if they would be interested in doing this before you send anything. I have a pretty good 3-view of the P-47of highly detailed drawings that I could scale off of if they want to do it.
the first LUCKY was 42-76234 HVP, second was 42-8461 HVP

Best Regards, Rex

[davegee]

Davegee,
Let me talk with the teacher next sunday to see if they would be interested in doing this before you send anything. I have a pretty good 3-view of the P-47of highly detailed drawings that I could scale off of if they want to do it.
the first LUCKY was 42-76234 HVP, second was 42-8461 HVP

Best Regards, Rex

Sounds good, Rex. Might be a good project for that class. Let me know how it goes.

I did a little research on the four airplanes that Johnson is believed to have flown during his combat tour with the 56th FG. I'll attach a PDF that was quoted from Roger Freeman, the most respected historian on the 8th AAF. I knew Roger, and considered him a friend. He lived on a family farm all his life, just across the road from Boxted Air Base, Essex where the 56th FG flew out of later in the war.

Just to be sure we're on the same page as far as doing research for your next project, should you decide to go with Robert Johnson's Lucky let's be sure we agree on the tail number of the plane that you might replicate.

I'm showing that P-47D-5RE, or the first Lucky, was the one that had most of his victories (21). I'm assuming that's the one you want to go with. The tail number on that one should be 42-8461. I think the markings with the white bands stayed on this aircraft while he flew it in combat, not totally sure on that without dates to confirm.

His third airplane after that was known as ALL HELL, although some also called it "Double Lucky" too. That tail number was 42-76234. Not sure if they had changed to red cowls on all aircraft yet.

Late in his tour Johnson was assigned to the 62nd Fighter Group from the 61st Fighter Group, and got his last two kills in LM*P Penrod and Sam, and I painted one of my P-47s up in this paint scheme.

Check out the attached PDF, see if you concur. I'd take Freeman's writings to the bank.

2024-11-30_072022.pdf

[jetfool]

Davegee,
Yes, the #42-8461 is the one I'm looking at doing. My Dad gave me Roger A. Freeman's The Mighty Eighth book for X-Mas in 1971. It has several pictures of Lucky and it has the white nose and tail stripe, one picture shows 21 kill markings. I also have P-47 Thunderbolt Aces by Jerry Scutts. The color profile shows a red nose on cowling. Unless I find a picture with red nose I will go with white. Looks like this plane was well used and shows wear, which would be fun to copy.
Although a foam plane I'd like to represent the correct model. Enjoying our conversation on this plane and it's great you met many of the real pilots. Dad had 2 friends that flew B-17 & b-24 in ETO. Spent many hours listening to them tell stories. Thanks for pointing out the correct history.

Best Regards, Rex