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Official Black Horse 2350mm Gilmore Red Lion

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  • #21
    I hadn't noticed that this thread was under a warbird category.

    It is indeed a great looking plane. Black Horse did a great job with it. I'm really looking forward to getting it in the air. The motor is stuck in the export terminal in China.

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    • #22
      Originally posted by Twowingtj View Post
      I hadn't noticed that this thread was under a warbird category.

      It is indeed a great looking plane. Black Horse did a great job with it. I'm really looking forward to getting it in the air. The motor is stuck in the export terminal in China.
      I can move this to a more representative category. Where do ya want it ??
      Warbird Charlie
      HSD Skyraider; FlightLine: OV-10, Sea Fury; FMS 1400: P-40B, P-51, F4U, F6F, T-28, P-40E, 1700 F4U & F7F, FOX glider; Freewing: A-6, P-51; VQ: P-39; Dynam: ME-262, FW-190, Waco; ASM A-26; ESM F7F-3; LX PBJ-1 EFL CZ T-28, C-150

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      • #23
        better in the "Sport and Racer" category I would say.

        Grossman56
        Team Gross!

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        • #24
          Originally posted by OV10 View Post

          I can move this to a more representative category. Where do ya want it ??
          Dan hit the nail on the head. "Sport and Racer" seems to be the correct place. Thanks Charlie!

          Comment


          • OV10
            OV10 commented
            Editing a comment
            AND DONE ;)

        • #25
          Finally got the DualSky 60cc 160kv motor. I did a quick mock-up for fit with the motor, cowl, prop, and spinner. I'll post more pics and details later as I finish up the actual final install.

          That big 15" diameter cowl certainly adds to the Golden Age lines of this bird.

          The dummy P&W Wasp will get the detail treatment a little later on.

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          • OV10
            OV10 commented
            Editing a comment
            That workplace looks to darn clean, wanna come over and organize my workshop LOL

        • #26
          Had a chance to get the Gilmore out in its natual habitat for some photos this morning.

          When indoors, the weathering appears a bit overdone. When outside, it looks much more realistic for a Golden Age air racer. It presents quite well. Click image for larger version

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          Now it's time to pull the cowl and get the drive electrics finished. I'm also going to use the opportunity to paint and detail the dummy motor.

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          • #27
            The DualSky GA6000.9 160kv motor now installed. This is the first of the larger DualSky motors I’ve used. The initial impression of the motor was that it seems to be very well designed and well made. The motor comes with a set of bullet connectors, 65mm stand offs, and machined aluminum shims in two thicknesses (8ea. 2mm and 8 ea. 3mm).

            To mount the motor, I was able to use the stand offs and motor mount disc that came with the kit. I found that the small diameter of the stock stand offs, for both the mount disc and motor tended to press into the wood. I also needed some additional length on the whole assembly to put the prop mount hub where I wanted it to be. By using the aluminum shims that came with the motor I could achieve the 206mm distance from firewall to prop mount hub that I was looking for. In addition, the 16mm diameter of the shims, also provided a larger surface area in contact with the wood, which addressed the compression of the wood.

            The bolts that come with the kit for mounting the motor to the disc are 4mm in diameter. The bolts for the long stand offs are 5mm. My preference was to go with 5mm bolts on the whole assembly. This required drilling out the short motor to disc stand offs to fit the 5mm bolts.

            A plywood platform was made for the ESC and epoxied it to the top of the motor box. The ESC is then bolted to the platform in front and through the platform and motor box at the rear for a secure set-up.

            The equipment bay on this model is not short on room. I think I've had appartments smaller.


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            • #28
              Was having some trouble getting the pics of the Gilmore, taken outside, to load. After resizing, here are some additional images of the model of the Wedell-Williams Model 44 in its classic Red Lion scheme, from Black Horse.


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              • #29
                I want to build the Gillmore ,but I'm wondering when the motor will be in stock?

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                • #30
                  HFunder Welcome to Hobby Squawk! Do you have the Gilmore yet? I had been waiting for the new Admiral motor as well. Knowing the folks at Motion RC, it will be a very good motor. It's been mentioned a few times that they will be arriving "soon".

                  My plan from the start was to go with a 12S system as most of my batteries are 6S. I also wanted to run a larger prop. Hence the motor I eventually went with.

                  I'm finishing the detailing of the dummy motor before I button up the final assembly.

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                  • #31
                    Dummy Motor: The dummy motor supplied, actually resembles a P&W Wasp Junior. Although it's slightly smaller than scale, it's a decent enough foundation to work with for detailing. Especially since it’s such a large visible feature on this model.

                    When you get the ARF the dummy motor has vacuformed webbing between the cylinders. It’s easy to open up between the cylinders with canopy scissors, then sand the edges. It is advised to only remove the webbing up to about the rocker boxes on the cylinders and leave the area in the "V" of the heads filled in to support the dummy motor. The center of the motor is filled in as well and is fairly thick. I opened mine up using a 2” hole saw.

                    There is a top and bottom to the motor. The cut outs go in the sides and are slightly biased toward the top. The cylinders form a “Y” at the top, with a single cylinder at the bottom.

                    After detailing, the dummy motor was installed in the cowl using silicon adhesive. I also made sure that there was a slight lip of silicon at the rear of the motor so it could not be pushed backward. I went with the silicon so the motor was secured most of the way around, yet the silicon could be cut if the motor needed to be removed.

                    The detailing was done with regular Testors model paints finished with a black wash to dirty it up a bit. The spark plugs are just sections of white plastic tubing, hot glued into a hole drilled at an angle. The wires are 18 ga. wire glued into the white tubing and into the motor over the heads.

                    Cowl Install: The locations to drill the cowl mount holes are preformed dimples in the cowl. All are marked except the top. I used the others as a guide for marking and drilling the top hole.

                    The cowl is tapered. It’s narrower at the rear than in the front. It is a bit tricky to get it to slide over the cowl mount ring. Especially after the dummy motor is installed.

                    It helps to sand the front edge of the cowl mount ring, to a slightly rounded front edge.


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                    • #32
                      With the Gilmore Red Lion having a fairly short nose, it was likely that it was going to need a fair amount of weight in the nose to balance. As I’m not a fan of having dead weight in a model, it was decided to do an initial CG using lead to see how much weight might be needed.

                      Black Horse provides a CG tool with the plane. It’s a fairly simple tool consisting of two semi wing ribs with a cut out for the wing tube and a hole for the forward anti-rotation pin. On mine, the hole for the anti-rotation pin was drilled 10mm too far forward. After taking the measurement for the true location, a new hole was drilled. The tool also has nylon bolts that screw into tabs in the semi-ribs, at the recommended CG. They also provide cord and a section of tubing to serve as a handle. It's quite a handy gadget really.

                      The recommended CG is 118mm from the leading edge of the wing. With a 450mm wing cord, that places the CG at 26.2% which is a good starting point.

                      Once the CG tool was installed and the plane was level with the tail blocked up, lead ingots were added far forward in the battery compartment. The plane was lifted using the tool, and the weights adjusted until the plane hung level at the recommended CG.

                      With the 3300mah 3S receiver battery installed, it took just over 4.5lbs of lead to balance.

                      With that weight in mind as a starting point, flight batteries were selected that would meet the requirement and give good flight times. I selected a pair of CHNL 6S 8000mah Lipos. The battery dimensions were perfect for the battery tray and each weighed 1113g or 2.45lbs.

                      Once the batteries arrived, the CG was re-accomplished. The plane balanced at the recommended CG, with the two batteries at barely back of the full forward position. Use of the batteries called for on the product page would have required quite a bit of dead weight to be added to the nose in order balance. The all up, ready to fly weight came in at 24.6lbs. The airframe weight, fully equiped, minus batteries, came in at the 20.7lbs listed on the product page.

                      Next up is the maiden, when the weather and area health situation allows.

                      Here’s a link to the batteries used. https://chinahobbyline.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=87

                      Also of note, the kit doesn’t come with a spinner, at least mine didn't. The one I used was the Miracle 1.75”/44.5mm from ZYHobby. It was already drilled for the DLE 55/DA 50 bolt pattern, which the DualSky GA6000.9 motor uses.

                      Are there any other Hobby Squawk members that have the Red Lion????



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                      • #33
                        Still waiting to do the maiden. Just can't seem to get any love from the weather forecasters. It's either wet, windy or both. They are even talking snow again.

                        Comment


                        • #34
                          Originally posted by Twowingtj View Post
                          Still waiting to do the maiden. Just can't seem to get any love from the weather forecasters. It's either wet, windy or both. They are even talking snow again.
                          yup, we finally get a cool spring and it's either windy or raining, a poke in the eye it is. Good luck with your maiden.
                          rc flyin addict

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                          • #35
                            Maiden complete! There are a couple of things to dial in a bit more. I wasn't able to get video or pics. That will have to wait until next flight. I'll provide more details shortly.

                            Comment


                            • #36
                              Originally posted by Twowingtj View Post
                              Maiden complete! There are a couple of things to dial in a bit more. I wasn't able to get video or pics. That will have to wait until next flight. I'll provide more details shortly.
                              Shoulda called me, I woulda videoed for you and then you coulda videoed me maidening the Bronco .
                              Warbird Charlie
                              HSD Skyraider; FlightLine: OV-10, Sea Fury; FMS 1400: P-40B, P-51, F4U, F6F, T-28, P-40E, 1700 F4U & F7F, FOX glider; Freewing: A-6, P-51; VQ: P-39; Dynam: ME-262, FW-190, Waco; ASM A-26; ESM F7F-3; LX PBJ-1 EFL CZ T-28, C-150

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                              • #37
                                OV10 Lets do that for the next flight and we'll get that Bronco maiden done too.

                                Maiden report:

                                Field assembly: The Gilmore is very easy to set-up. It’s simply a matter of sliding the wing tube in, slide each wing on, tighten the two wing clamp bolts on each side and connecting the aileron leads. Everything fits and aligns well.

                                Prep: The receiver and flight batteries were loaded. Then the range check was done from all angles around the plane. The control throws were set by the manual with low rates, mid was set to manual high rates and high about 10% higher. During the power run up, I noticed that the ESC was in medium soft start mode. Not ideal, but workable.

                                Ground handling: Time for the first taxi tests. There were 15mph crosswinds with some higher gusts. It tracked straight going into the wind, and of course wanted to weathervane while in the crosswind. Everything was looking pretty good.

                                Take-off: I set the rates to mid. With a little right rudder input, the throttle was rolled in. Just past half throttle, the big air racer broke ground into a nice scale climb out. The elevator felt quite sensitive and the plane behaved as it were a little on the tail heavy side. The ailerons and rudder felt fine.

                                Trimming: Once at a good altitude and about 2/3 throttle, she was brought into the wind for trimming. With two clicks of elevator, it was tracking true.

                                Handling:
                                Flight envelope: With it feeling a bit tail heavy, no aerobatics were attempted.

                                Stall Test: The wind conditions weren’t great for a good feel for stall speed. The plane has a good deal of washout at the tips so stall is fairly gentle. It started to drop the left wing. Application of power and push the nose forward corrected fine.

                                Visibility/orientation: Even though it was a cloudy day, the Gilmore showed up well in the sky. With the large lettering on the upper wings and its large size, maintaining orientation was easy.

                                Power as equipped: The power combination felt perfect for the airframe. Some full throttle passes were made and the 26” prop sounded great. The design, by nature, has a lot of drag. Anything over ¾ throttle resulted in very little airspeed gains and just added to the amp draw. When the throttle is pulled back, the plane slows very quickly. Just need to be aware.

                                Flight behavior: Other than feeling tail heavy, the controls felt good. Especially at a little higher throttle settings. Well, it is an air racer after all. It looked good at scale speeds.

                                Set-up for landing: Knowing that the plane slows quickly and having gusty tailwind on base, the throttle was kept just below half.

                                Landing: Once on final, it was just a case of managing throttle for decent rate and compensating for the crosswind. With the touchy elevator I flared a bit early, but was able to recover and set her down on the mains, with a little bump. No signs of wanting to bounce.

                                Power left: The timer was set at five minutes. The full time was used for mixed spirited flying. After the flight, the 8000mah packs read 3.94v per cell. So we’ll take the timer up another minute and adjust from there.

                                Post Flight: The CG was done using the tool provided by Black Horse. With this being a low wing plane, the bulk of the bird’s mass is above the tool’s pivot point. So it can be a bit tippy as you try to use it.
                                I decided to put the plane on my Vanessa CG rig after the maiden. As configured for the maiden flight, the plane was indeed a little tail heavy. It took 5 oz. of weight added to the motor mount to balance at the recommended CG.

                                The ESC was reprogramed for normal start as well.

                                I’ll update after the next flight.

                                Comment


                                • #38
                                  Flight number 2,3 and 4 in yesterday while buddy Warbird Charlie was at the field to maiden the Flightline OV-10.

                                  After adding the 5oz of lead to the nose, it balanced right at the 118mm, called for in the manual, on the Vanessa CG rig.

                                  We were still dealing with a stiff and gusty crosswinds. At take off it handled much better. The ailerons felt even better than they had previously and the elevator felt less touchy. Cruise speed and full throttle passes were very rewarding. Even did a couple of large loops and an aileron roll.

                                  When slowing down for practice approaches, the tail would drop a bit and the elevator was still somewhat touchy, especially in a gusty crosswind. My feeling is that the plane is still slightly tail heavy. I'll add another 3-4oz and see how it feels from there.

                                  At right around 4.8kw at WOT, the Gilmore is powered perfectly for my taste. The DualSky motor, Hobbywing ESC and CNHL lipos don't seem stressed at all after a vigorous 5 minute workout.

                                  Once dialed in, it's going to be a real pleasure to fly and it gathers a lot of attention at the field.

                                  Thanks to fellow Squawker OV10 for getting some pics for me.

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                                  • #39
                                    I have thoroughly enjoyed following this build thread. Thanks for taking time to share your experience.

                                    Would you by chance have a video of the model in flight available?

                                    Thanks

                                    DaleD

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                                    • #40
                                      DaleD Welcome to Hobby Squawk. Thank you for the kind words.

                                      Black Horse has put out, IMHO, the nicest Wedell-Williams Model 44 Gimore Red Lion currently available. It was a pleasure to share the build. Our videographer was having equipment problems, so no video as of yet.

                                      I got your PM and will be happy to answer your questions a little later today. Cheers.

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