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Official Black Horse 2350mm Gilmore Red Lion

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  • Twowingtj
    replied
    djmoose Congrats on the maiden!

    When tuning the Gilmore in, it wound up being a warbird/pattern plane approach. The ailerons are scale and fairly small. similar to those on warbirds, so 20deg and 25deg worked.

    It has a long tail moment, similar to a pattern plane, so 12deg and 15deg worked well.

    Replacing the glitchy elevator servos made the biggest difference on mine. With the long tail moment, just a little off center on the return had a big effect on how it felt.

    Leave a comment:


  • djmoose
    replied
    Thank you 406! We all know that the true test for CG in flight is the inverted flight test...I just did not have enough aileron to feel ok to roll her yesterday. I don't push things until I'm comfortable. Baby steps! More to come!

    Originally posted by 406PIlot View Post
    djmoose great job!!!!!! Really glad your maiden went well!! Your write up was excellent.

    I will say I am in complete agreement about the ailerons!!

    Cheers on the maiden!

    Leave a comment:


  • 406PIlot
    replied
    djmoose great job!!!!!! Really glad your maiden went well!! Your write up was excellent.

    I will say I am in complete agreement about the ailerons!!

    Cheers on the maiden!

    Leave a comment:


  • djmoose
    replied
    She has flown! One maiden flight, I was the only one at the field, so no video.

    AUW: 23.45 lbs (no lion, closed cockpit, 12S 5200mah)
    CG: 114.6 mm from LE

    Batteries:
    2 6S 5200 Zee packs - https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B08GLMY3BT
    1 2S 2200 pack for Rx

    Taxi and takeoff were no problem...needed right ridder to keep her straight, but that's par for the course.

    I personally need more aileron. My high rates were per the manual and I'll be adjusting.

    This plane loves rudder...if you don't fly rudder, you might not enjoy flying this plane and it's probably not going to look great in turns. The good thing is that this plane responds well with rudder input. Not only in coordinating turns, but for aligning your lines, not to mention corrections for your landing approach.

    Rudder rate as stated in the manual is perfect.

    I need more time on the elevator...I stayed on high rates the entire flight...as I didn't want to loose any aileron. Yes, as she flew yesterday, some would say pitch is twitchy....but I didn't notice any other tail heavy tendencies...so as of right now, it's just nicely sensitive on pitch. (this has been stated before in the thread...I'm just confirming with my experience)

    In fact...at 114.6 CG, everything pointed to it still being nose heavy. I wont know for sure until after a few more flights. I'll keep in mind that even if it's nose heavy...moving the CG back will give the elevator more authority. It truly is a balancing act to get everything the way you like it.

    Landing in just mowed grass on a rolled field was butter. Not even a bounce. (another reason I don't think it's tail-heavy) I stayed with the stock wheels and had no problems. However I BET landing on pavement wouldn't be as smooth.

    More to come!

    Click image for larger version  Name:	image_74303.jpg Views:	3 Size:	155.0 KB ID:	322695

    P:S: I don't ever mention expo in a thread like this as I feel it's completely pilot preference. Just saying that because I want to head off any expo suggestions on the elevator or ailerons. Trust me, I don't need any more or less. :-)

    P:P:S: I do have a Jeti Rex10 Assist Rx, but the gyro stayed turned off the entire flight. IT won't get turned on until I get the plane trimmed and flying they way I like.

    Leave a comment:


  • 406PIlot
    replied
    Ok here is a picture i snapped when i got home from work.

    Click image for larger version

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    Leave a comment:


  • RCBobP
    replied
    Originally posted by 406PIlot View Post



    No problems at all with balancing the plane. The heavy motor helped quite a bit. I didn't have to add any additional ballast or weight. I am using the 112mm CG and it's perfect. I included a picture from when i was laying things out during assembly. I'll get an updated picture and post later. However things didn't change. Fuel tank / batteries / switches etc all stayed in the same location shown.


    Awesome, thanks!

    Leave a comment:


  • Twowingtj
    replied
    406PIlot Nice clean install. Pretty easy to do when there's an area the size of most garages to work with lol.

    Leave a comment:


  • 406PIlot
    replied
    Originally posted by RCBobP View Post

    Yes, that sound. Purrs like a kitten! Did you have any issues balancing the plane? That engine adds some weight to the front, so I'd like to see how you set up "under the hood". Battery placement, etc. Did you have to add any aft weight? Did you balance at the 112 mm mark?


    No problems at all with balancing the plane. The heavy motor helped quite a bit. I didn't have to add any additional ballast or weight. I am using the 112mm CG and it's perfect. I included a picture from when i was laying things out during assembly. I'll get an updated picture and post later. However things didn't change. Fuel tank / batteries / switches etc all stayed in the same location shown.


    Leave a comment:


  • RCBobP
    replied
    Originally posted by 406PIlot View Post
    Looking good RCBobP.... That saito FG-90 pulls the gilmore fantastically with a 24x12. OHHH THE SOUND!!!!!!!!!!


    Yes, that sound. Purrs like a kitten! Did you have any issues balancing the plane? That engine adds some weight to the front, so I'd like to see how you set up "under the hood". Battery placement, etc. Did you have to add any aft weight? Did you balance at the 112 mm mark?

    Leave a comment:


  • Twowingtj
    replied
    406PIlot Sounds great!

    Leave a comment:


  • 406PIlot
    replied
    Looking good RCBobP.... That saito FG-90 pulls the gilmore fantastically with a 24x12. OHHH THE SOUND!!!!!!!!!!


    Leave a comment:


  • RCBobP
    replied
    By the way, I ran three tanks through the engine on a test stand. Hot diggety that baby hums!

    Leave a comment:


  • RCBobP
    replied
    Coming down the home stretch on mine. Engine (Saito 90) is finally mounted. Went with 10-32 bolts from inside the firewall, through two spacers into a lock nut. That gave enough clearance between the keleo ring and the firewall. Had to shave down the two plywood tabs on the left side of the firewall (as you look at it from the front).

    All that's left to do is plumb in a gas tank and add radio gear (receiver, batteries, etc.).

    FYI- the closeup of the firewall showing the spacers makes it look like sparkplug wires are resting on the muffler. Not to worry, I took care of that before I mounted the cowl!
    Attached Files

    Leave a comment:


  • djmoose
    replied
    Originally posted by Twowingtj View Post
    djmoose
    Now you've got my curiosity up.... how can you get a workable 12S set-up with 3 6S packs?
    Typo on my part. :-) (fixed above) I meant 2.

    Leave a comment:


  • Twowingtj
    replied
    djmoose When the cowl was removed this last time, I realized that some of the ballast weights that were added, were 6oz vs what I thought were 8oz each. So my total ballast was 24oz instead of 30oz.

    The Du-Bro inflatables were heavier than stock, so I just moved the motor batteries aft a bit for CG. Now that I'm returning to lighter wheels and some weight added due to repairs, I'll have to repeat the process again. I really should spring for the Xicoy. I've always used a Vanessa set-up for CG for bigger birds. Effective and accurate, but can be a bit tricky to set up right.

    Now you've got my curiosity up.... how can you get a workable 12S set-up with 3 6S packs?

    Leave a comment:


  • djmoose
    replied
    Originally posted by Twowingtj View Post
    djmoose sounds like a workable power set up. It will likely be a little heavier than my 2X 6S 8Ah set up. Mine weighs in at about 25lbs. This bird has plenty of wing area, so you should be fine. The Gilmore has a good amount of washout built in to the tips, so it doesn't stall easily.
    Hopefully not too much heavier. Did you remove lead or move things to get your new CG? Each of my lipos are ~26oz...so if you added 30oz of lead, all things being equal, hopefully I'm not more than 26oz heavier. Lot's of variables, though...for example, my extra weight is closer to CG so I'll need more compared to you putting it under the cowl. You are using a 3S pack with a BEC where I'll be running straight 2S...I'm saving some weight there. (but to be fair, I'll probably have more 10AWG wiring for the series parallel config, and that is not exactly "light")

    We'll see...lots of variables, lots of options. I could even just run 2 6S packs instead of 4. Won't know final details until after I get it up on the Xicoy.
    Last edited by djmoose; Aug 11, 2021, 02:42 PM. Reason: typo fix

    Leave a comment:


  • Twowingtj
    replied
    djmoose sounds like a workable power set up. It will likely be a little heavier than my 2X 6S 8Ah set up. Mine weighs in at about 25lbs. This bird has plenty of wing area, so you should be fine. The Gilmore has a good amount of washout built in to the tips, so it doesn't stall easily.

    I want to thank all of you who have contributed to this thread so far. With 425 posts and over 10,250 views, it's the most active Black Horse model thread on Hobby Squawk, by far. Sorry, I've always been a numbers and data guy.

    The Gilmore has sold out several times since it was brought into the Motion RC family of products. So, there are a lot of them out there. I'm sure that all of you that have taken the time to add to and or ask questions on this thread, have helped many Gilmore owner/pilots be successful with their models.

    Leave a comment:


  • djmoose
    replied
    For now, the plan is 4 of the Zee 6S 5200 packs in a series parallel config for 12S 10400 mah setup. This will be a bit more expensive, but allow for hopefully 10-12 minute flights with each pack only needing to supply 20-30 amps at WOT. I have them mounted and they fit nicely and secure.

    However I won't know for sure until I get it on the scales this weekend. I'll be using straight unregulated 2S Lipo for electronics....I'm counting on the ability to place a large or small 2S pack where needed to achieve the final balance. I have a bunch of larger 2S packs from my 35% and 40% IMAC planes, so I don't need to buy any more.

    I'll keep everyone updated!

    Leave a comment:


  • Twowingtj
    replied
    djmoose Thanks for the nod.

    What batteries have you decided to go with? After changing out the glitchy elevator servo, I moved my CG to 114-115mm and it's feeling good. It's got more than a dozen flights now so pretty dialed in. If it wasn't for the poor results from the pneumatic tire experiment, it would be good to go.

    Once we get through hosting the Festival of Giants event this weekend, it will go back on the bench to get the repairs done.

    Good luck on the maiden. Looking forward to your flight video and report.

    Leave a comment:


  • RCBobP
    replied
    Originally posted by 406PIlot View Post

    You can use longer bolts, but you have to take the mounting plate of the engine in order to get the longer bolts into place.
    Thanks. I will probably go with longer bolts screwed in from inside the firewall with a washer, then use a lock nut on the motor side. I've seen that done on another thread.

    Leave a comment:

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