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E Flite Viper

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  • #21
    Originally posted by xviper View Post
    It is, however, I believe the N. American market will pay it. There was ample warning from HH that their prices across the board was going up as high as 30% for some items. In this case, it's about 10%. I think the rumours (likely started by HH) that the 30% was a ploy to make people feel less inflamed when the actual increase is much less. It didn't work. A 10% increase on an already pricey product still stings and will raise eyebrows in the marketplace. Of course, this is not terribly different when MotionRC announced their price increase a while back, which we are now beginning to see.
    There's really nothing else quite like it for the money when it comes to the Viper. Thrust reverse is a game changer for today's EDFs. I think one day, we'll look back and realize that thrust reversing for EDFs was a milestone in this hobby, just like LiPo batteries were and EDFs themselves.
    I had one of the original Taft ViperJets years ago and it was a great airplane even though it had all kinds of deficiencies. Before the new Eflite 90mm was announced, I was going to buy another Taft ViperJet in 8s form. It's got upgrade retracts but insofar as the rest of it, most of the previous deficiencies are still there. The old pricing was $420.00 for the 8s version but as with most of the Freewing planes at RC Castle, much of it is "out of stock". I think it's in preparation for new increased pricing there as well. Most certainly I could buy the Taft when it comes back into stock (at likely a new, increased price tag) and replace the ESC with the Avian ESC (assuming it will even come in a HV version) and buy an AR637T and I'd have my high powered Viper. It would likely amount to way over the $600.00 price tag of the Eflite Viper and still have all the deficiencies of the of Taft product.
    What you say is true. I've been looking and it's hard to get an apples to apples comparison that marks the difference for.me. The closest thing that stands out, for me, is the 70mm Viper and the FW Bae Hawk, as I have both. There is some personal preference involved, but if I look at the two I really think the Hawk is a better plane. Now closer in price for the PNP to PNP comparison. It's the gear, the lights, the hinges, and the foam quality. All around better on the FW BAE Hawk. Even the flight performance. I have more time on the viper but that was a matter of choice to abuse it and preserve the Hawk as I get better and find better places to fly. If I crash the 70mm viper I wouldn't get a new one, whereas the Hawk I definitely would. All that said, I don't doubt the new 90mm Viper will be a great plane. The quality and features seem to be a step up, similar to the new F16 and the 1.5 warbirds, the Draco and the new Turbo Timber iteration. But for those to jump in price 10% after an already expensive initial pricing and/or an earlier increase. It does feel like a kick in the principles. Definitely not like a shared suffering in the new economic environment.

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    • #22
      xviper and SanExup, all good points. The one thing that the HH aircraft offer that is a bonus is the included receiver (and that's the only RX I use), however, since HH also charges Illinois sales tax and for some reason MRC has not yet gone there , the Viper would cost me about $642. More expensive than the FW F-14 Tomcat and getting close to the cost of the A-10 and even the Mig 29, albeit those coming without RX's. But if it truly is an outstanding EDF, I suppose the N. American market will pay it, since we're now used to price increases on virtually everything and most people seem happy to pay it! I guess those "paid" reviewers need to get busy and start earning the support of HH.
      Hugh "Wildman" Wiedman
      Hangar: FL/FW: Mig 29 "Cobra", A-10 Arctic, F18 Canadian & Tiger Meet, F16 Wild Weasel, F4 Phantom & Blue Angel, 1600 Corsair & Spitfire, Olive B-24, Stinger 90, Red Avanti. Extreme Flight-Slick 60, 60" Extra 300 V2, 62" MXS Heavy Metal, MXS Green, & Demonstrator. FMS-1700mm P-51, Red Bull Corsair. E-Flite-70mm twin SU-30, Beast Bi-Plane 60", P2 Bi-Plane, P-51, Apprentice.

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      • #23
        This thread started out for the Eflite 70mm Viper, but here's the "next evolution" of it - the Eflite 90mm Viper. If you've never seen an EDF go backwards, view to the end.

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        • #24
          I agreed that the $600+ price tag is quite expensive, but come to think of it, it does include the ESC also and it is quite a large EDF jet, so I had to pull the trigger to purchase one. So far, I have not regret it as the Viper 90mm fly very stable and the landing gear is very SOLID. Also the wingspan is a good 50+ inches wide so very easy to see in the sky. Posted video of the Viper taking quite a beating on many different landings in this video and still OK.

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2hhWJbTLncU&t=360s

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          • #25
            Expensive in today's economy is somewhat subjective. I started flying RC in the 60s and can make some comparisons to then. $1 in 1960 is equivalent in purchasing power to about $9.24 today, an increase of $8.24 over 61 years. That would mean that a $600 plane today would have cost me about $65 in 1960. And yes that would have been higher than most plane kits were selling for back then. But...the kit you bought in 1960 came in small pieces of wood and took you weeks to build and fly. And the cost didn't include any covering, wheels, hardware, radio gear or engine. No one could have conceived back then of what's available today as a plug and play model. I think we're getting a bargain!

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            • #26
              Here is my experience with the Viper's first flights today...

              Conditions: 50 F, 5 mph wind at 45 degrees to the runway, short grass surface, severe clear sky

              Battery: Socokin 6s 6000mah, 850g. Battery located near the aft end of the battery tray so that only two velcro straps were used. CG just in front of the wheel wells.

              I made four flights today and in one word..."perfect". Takeoffs from our grass field were smooth and easy. The landing gear really works well. The control surfaces were all at neutral as it came out of the box....throws adjusted to the manual specs. No trim adjustments were required for flight. On high rates the plane is very responsive and agile and on low rates smooth and stable. As others have shown this plane snap rolls like crazy! I also tried a spin and it did one but very nose down and easy to recover. Stalls with the gear and flaps up showed a very sharp wing drop with the plane rolling to near inverted. However, with full flaps/crow the stalls were a non-problem. The plane slows to what seems like walking speed and just mushes along in level flight with no wing drop at all. Flaps up you can do a steep tight turn but when the stall does occur the plane snaps over in the direction of the top wing. All stalls and snaps are easy to recover with normal inputs.

              I set the flight timer for 3 mins for the first flight and added 30 secs for each subsequent flight. Throttle was at 50-75% for most maneuvers with 75-100% only used for vertical climbs. Still had 40% after 4:30 flight so 5 min seems reasonable unless you like to really bend the left stick.

              The landings were all made with full flaps/crow with about 2 mm of down elevator mixed in. Approaches were smooth and steady with a nice rate of descent. I kept a little power on all the way through the approach, round out, and touchdown. All landings were baby bottom smooth.

              My initial impression is that the plane is an absolutely beautiful flier in stock condition. Flying without a gyro I did see some very minor wing rocking occasionally...might be worse flying in gusty winds.

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              • #27
                Very thorough review above Redfordc! Viper 90 is an absolutely spectacular performer and very efficient to boot! I would dare say it’s the best EDF jet that I have ever flown. Almost unlimited vertical when you want it, yet sips battery at 50% cruise or lower - even more efficient than smaller 80mm EDF jets.

                We are using it for 4-ship formation practice and consistently get 8 minutes flights with 6s 6000 at 50% throttle with 30% battery left.
                 
                YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/user/motionsic
                Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/FPVAirCombat
                Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/fpvaircombat/channel/

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                • #28
                  Hmm.. I used a Zee 6S 6000 and it barely give me 4:30 minutes of flight.. and about 35% left. I attended Best In The West 2021 RC Jet Rally and talked to Horizon Hobby rep and they told me that's about right..(BTW, that event was awesome you guys can youtube it and check it out..) My flight throttle is pretty much 50% most of the time. What battery did you use to get 8 minutes of flight. Thanks.

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                  • #29
                    Five minute flight and 40% left.

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                    • #30
                      Originally posted by ArmorBolt View Post
                      Hmm.. I used a Zee 6S 6000 and it barely give me 4:30 minutes of flight.. and about 35% left. I attended Best In The West 2021 RC Jet Rally and talked to Horizon Hobby rep and they told me that's about right..(BTW, that event was awesome you guys can youtube it and check it out..) My flight throttle is pretty much 50% most of the time. What battery did you use to get 8 minutes of flight. Thanks.
                      HRB 6S 6000; when we practice tight formations, we are pretty stringent with our throttle settings. Once will start doing vertical maneuvers throwing some loops and big barrel rolls in there, then flight time are in the normal range of 4 to 5 minutes.
                      YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/user/motionsic
                      Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/FPVAirCombat
                      Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/fpvaircombat/channel/

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                      • #31
                        Ok, thanks. I will check out HRB 6S 6000. Any minute more I can squeeze out for the Viper is VALUABLE :-)

                        Also, i attached some of my Viper flights/landings below on Youtube if anyone want to check it out..



                        YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCR9...CMChKNX9KQD3lw
                        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2hhWJbTLncU&t=29s

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                        • #32
                          Originally posted by ArmorBolt View Post
                          Ok, thanks. I will check out HRB 6S 6000. Any minute more I can squeeze out for the Viper is VALUABLE :-)

                          Also, i attached some of my Viper flights/landings below on Youtube if anyone want to check it out..



                          YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCR9...CMChKNX9KQD3lw
                          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2hhWJbTLncU&t=29s
                          I've been using the HRB 6000's, 50C for about a year in my planes. They excel in my prop planes, but in my jets, they are starting to get a bit "tired" and not nearly as peppy as my ChinaHobbyLine's. This is after about only 100 cycles. If you look at the real world tests, you will see the HRBs are good, in fact, better than most, but know that a 50C HRB is putting out only 19C in real world tests. The CHL Black, 5000, 65C puts out 40C in real world testing. This represents more punch and performance. My Viper will fly with more gusto and for longer (about a minute to 1.5min longer on mixed throttle) on the 5000 CHL Black than it does on the HRB 6000. Past experience has shown me that even after a couple cycles and a couple of years down the road, the CHL batteries don't get "tired" and continue to perform well.
                          The 90mm Viper can take a huge variety of weights of batteries and still fly very well. It can take over 1000 grams of batteries without breaking a sweat. You might consider putting in 7000mah or even 8000mah worth of batteries into it if flight times are important to you. Eg, a single 7000mah or maybe twin 4000mah in parallel. Look at the CHL Black series or the "best on the block" SMC 40C batteries (35C real world). Liperiors are also at the top of the heap. (And they don't cost an arm and a leg.)

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                          • #33
                            Originally posted by xviper View Post
                            I've been using the HRB 6000's, 50C for about a year in my planes. They excel in my prop planes, but in my jets, they are starting to get a bit "tired" and not nearly as peppy as my ChinaHobbyLine's. This is after about only 100 cycles. If you look at the real world tests, you will see the HRBs are good, in fact, better than most, but know that a 50C HRB is putting out only 19C in real world tests. The CHL Black, 5000, 65C puts out 40C in real world testing. This represents more punch and performance. My Viper will fly with more gusto and for longer (about a minute to 1.5min longer on mixed throttle) on the 5000 CHL Black than it does on the HRB 6000. Past experience has shown me that even after a couple cycles and a couple of years down the road, the CHL batteries don't get "tired" and continue to perform well.
                            The 90mm Viper can take a huge variety of weights of batteries and still fly very well. It can take over 1000 grams of batteries without breaking a sweat. You might consider putting in 7000mah or even 8000mah worth of batteries into it if flight times are important to you. Eg, a single 7000mah or maybe twin 4000mah in parallel. Look at the CHL Black series or the "best on the block" SMC 40C batteries (35C real world). Liperiors are also at the top of the heap. (And they don't cost an arm and a leg.)
                            Agree with xviper 100%, the HRB's are better than most but test out on the Progressive IR meter at a true C for me at 21C when new. I've switched over completely to the SMC graphenes and the 6200 40C tested for me closer to 35-37C (as xviper stated), so IMO, are the best of the bunch. They weigh in at 814 gr. I also use the SMC 5300 40C in several jets, including the Mig 29 and it tests out almost at 39C but incredibly weighs only 684 gr. An outstanding battery for higher C edf's and very low weight (the SU-30 loves them). And their 8100 20C weighs in at 900 gr and tests out over 20C, so it works great in the F-16 for extended flight times on the 12 blade inrunner. This would be an outstanding battery for the Viper, sized at 45X62X160mm. The Liperiors are good as well but are quite a bit heavier for the comparable mah when compared to the SMC's. Just my 2 cents.

                            If you do go to the SMC's, get the "Flight Batteries" as they are closer to the labeled true C. The batteries not listed as "Flight Batteries" are intended for sale to the "car & helicopter" guys who buy batteries labeled with incredibly high C's that don't come close to real C (Danny Sullivan, owner of SMC told me airplane guys know the true C's, where as the other groups tend to just buy the highest C on the market and don't know the difference, so those batteries are intended to "compete" with all the other liars out there).
                            Hugh "Wildman" Wiedman
                            Hangar: FL/FW: Mig 29 "Cobra", A-10 Arctic, F18 Canadian & Tiger Meet, F16 Wild Weasel, F4 Phantom & Blue Angel, 1600 Corsair & Spitfire, Olive B-24, Stinger 90, Red Avanti. Extreme Flight-Slick 60, 60" Extra 300 V2, 62" MXS Heavy Metal, MXS Green, & Demonstrator. FMS-1700mm P-51, Red Bull Corsair. E-Flite-70mm twin SU-30, Beast Bi-Plane 60", P2 Bi-Plane, P-51, Apprentice.

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