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Official FlightLine F4U-1A Corsair 1600mm (63") Wingspan

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  • I did my maiden today and flight went very well. Only a slight amount of up trim and a wonderful flight. Landing was not perfect but not bad. No retract damage. But ....... I put in another battery to go again and problems started. I have a Futaba receiver and Futaba gyro. Worked great on maiden flight. But now, if the gyro is off everything works fine. If the gyro is on and the gear was down when I plugged in the battery it works fine as long as the gear is down - raise the gear and the ailerons peg hard to the right. If the gyro is on and the gear was up when I plugged in the battery it works fine as long as the gear is up - lower the gear and the aileron peg hard to the left. When I got home I replaced the gyro with a brand new identical gyro and got the same results. Anybody have a clue as to what is going on. I ruled out the gyro since a did have a new one to try as a replacement. I don't understand how a gryro can be tied to the landing gear, the landing gear does not even plug into the gyro. Is is possible the multi-function board that came installed in the Corsair went bad? Any thoughts??

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    • Originally posted by paulsnapp View Post
      I did my maiden today and flight went very well. Only a slight amount of up trim and a wonderful flight. Landing was not perfect but not bad. No retract damage. But ....... I put in another battery to go again and problems started. I have a Futaba receiver and Futaba gyro. Worked great on maiden flight. But now, if the gyro is off everything works fine. If the gyro is on and the gear was down when I plugged in the battery it works fine as long as the gear is down - raise the gear and the ailerons peg hard to the right. If the gyro is on and the gear was up when I plugged in the battery it works fine as long as the gear is up - lower the gear and the aileron peg hard to the left. When I got home I replaced the gyro with a brand new identical gyro and got the same results. Anybody have a clue as to what is going on. I ruled out the gyro since a did have a new one to try as a replacement. I don't understand how a gryro can be tied to the landing gear, the landing gear does not even plug into the gyro. Is is possible the multi-function board that came installed in the Corsair went bad? Any thoughts??
      If I'm reading your post correctly, then indeed, the retracts may have an affect on what the control surfaces are doing. This is assuming you have all the control surfaces still running through the control board. These boards use common grounds and some signal pathways may get contamination from an adjacent pathway if the soldering was not precisely done. You might want to try and experiment whereby you by-pass the board for AIL, ELE and RUD, and see what happens.

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      • Could the channel's be mixed on a switch ? I don't use Futaba , just a thought .

        Comment


        • Originally posted by paulsnapp View Post
          I did my maiden today and flight went very well. Only a slight amount of up trim and a wonderful flight. Landing was not perfect but not bad. No retract damage. But ....... I put in another battery to go again and problems started. I have a Futaba receiver and Futaba gyro. Worked great on maiden flight. But now, if the gyro is off everything works fine. If the gyro is on and the gear was down when I plugged in the battery it works fine as long as the gear is down - raise the gear and the ailerons peg hard to the right. If the gyro is on and the gear was up when I plugged in the battery it works fine as long as the gear is up - lower the gear and the aileron peg hard to the left. When I got home I replaced the gyro with a brand new identical gyro and got the same results. Anybody have a clue as to what is going on. I ruled out the gyro since a did have a new one to try as a replacement. I don't understand how a gryro can be tied to the landing gear, the landing gear does not even plug into the gyro. Is is possible the multi-function board that came installed in the Corsair went bad? Any thoughts??
          Not sure about Futaba either, but with the Spektrum AR 636/AR 637T receivers with an AS3X gyro in them, the gains are tied to one of the 6 channels. You can tie it to the gear channel or the flap channel or any "open" channel. I always tie it to my flap channel because I like the 3 different gains I program in to change when I alter the flap deflections. What seems extremely confusing is that it worked fine on the maiden, then started the "problem" as you were getting ready for the 2nd flight, unless you had the gyro off on the maiden. What channel is the gyro on? Clearly what is happening is that if the gear is down (or visa versa) when you plug the battery in, the gyro sets everything with that configuration as "level". Then when you raise the gear, the gyro "believes" that you are putting input in to fully roll left, but the plane is not rolling left, so the gyro inputs full right aileron. It also sounds like the Futaba gyro uses "heading gain" instead of rate gain. Heading gain changes a surface and leaves it there until the plane re-orients back to the original position, where rate gain will just flutter initially to correct a movement but will not leave the surface there to get back to the original orientation. Somehow, your Futaba gyro is reading the gear as another control surface, somehow confusing it with the roll axis. I have no idea how to install/program a Futaba gyro, but it sounds like it is not hooked up correctly, hence the other gyro you replaced (and hooked up the same) gave the same results.
          Hugh "Wildman" Wiedman
          Hangar: FlightLine-90mm F18 Canadian Demo, F16 Wild Weasel, F4 Phantom, F4 Blue Angel, 1600mm Corsair & Spitfire, Olive & Silver B-24, Stinger 90, Red 80mm Avanti. Extreme Flight-Slick 60, 60" Extra 300 V2, 62" MXS Heavy Metal, 62" MXS Green, 62" Demonstrator. FMS-1700mm P-51, Red Bull Corsair. E-Flite-70mm twin SU-30, Beast Bi-Plane 60", P2 Bi-Plane, P-51, Apprentice.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Hugh Wiedman View Post

            Not sure about Futaba either, but with the Spektrum AR 636/AR 637T receivers with an AS3X gyro in them, the gains are tied to one of the 6 channels. You can tie it to the gear channel or the flap channel or any "open" channel. I always tie it to my flap channel because I like the 3 different gains I program in to change when I alter the flap deflections. What seems extremely confusing is that it worked fine on the maiden, then started the "problem" as you were getting ready for the 2nd flight, unless you had the gyro off on the maiden. What channel is the gyro on? Clearly what is happening is that if the gear is down (or visa versa) when you plug the battery in, the gyro sets everything with that configuration as "level". Then when you raise the gear, the gyro "believes" that you are putting input in to fully roll left, but the plane is not rolling left, so the gyro inputs full right aileron. It also sounds like the Futaba gyro uses "heading gain" instead of rate gain. Heading gain changes a surface and leaves it there until the plane re-orients back to the original position, where rate gain will just flutter initially to correct a movement but will not leave the surface there to get back to the original orientation. Somehow, your Futaba gyro is reading the gear as another control surface, somehow confusing it with the roll axis. I have no idea how to install/program a Futaba gyro, but it sounds like it is not hooked up correctly, hence the other gyro you replaced (and hooked up the same) gave the same results.
            Thanks for the feedback. I have been on the phone with Futaba in Huntsville AL this morning. They said that the gyro expects channel 6 (which is my retracts) to be Aileron 2. Even though I do not have Aileron 2 the gyro sees the gear movement as Aileron 2. So they said to not use channel 6 and move the gear to another channel. I just built an EDF using the same receiver and gyro as my Corsair. I checked it this morning (it has not yet been flown) and it acted the same way as the Corsair. So, I made the channel moves suggested by Futaba and the problem went away in my EDF. I will set the Corsair up the same as the EDF tomorrow and see what I get. I did go online last night and ordered another control board for the Corsair thinking this would be the issue. Looks like I will have an extra if this works. Who knew??

            Comment


            • What I can't explain is why this did not happen when I raised the gear on the maiden flight. I had the gyro on for takeoff. I remember because just before takeoff out on the runway I picked it up and moved the plane in all axis to make sure the gyro was working properly. I must have had a guardian angel on board.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by paulsnapp View Post
                What I can't explain is why this did not happen when I raised the gear on the maiden flight. I had the gyro on for takeoff. I remember because just before takeoff out on the runway I picked it up and moved the plane in all axis to make sure the gyro was working properly. I must have had a guardian angel on board.
                That's a great question, a mystery for sure. It may be possible that after you put the gear up, the gyro would have moved the aileron as it did on the bench but you most likely where moving the control surfaces, including the aileron which would over ride the action of the gyro, depending on the amount of priority you have programmed into the gyro . At that point, the gyro re-oriented itself to the current attitude of the plane and went from there. But after saying that, this explanation sounds a little sketchy, even to me.
                Hugh "Wildman" Wiedman
                Hangar: FlightLine-90mm F18 Canadian Demo, F16 Wild Weasel, F4 Phantom, F4 Blue Angel, 1600mm Corsair & Spitfire, Olive & Silver B-24, Stinger 90, Red 80mm Avanti. Extreme Flight-Slick 60, 60" Extra 300 V2, 62" MXS Heavy Metal, 62" MXS Green, 62" Demonstrator. FMS-1700mm P-51, Red Bull Corsair. E-Flite-70mm twin SU-30, Beast Bi-Plane 60", P2 Bi-Plane, P-51, Apprentice.

                Comment


                • paulsnapp the more I think about it, the more I'm sure that's exactly what happened as I described in the post above. The gyro is only "working" on a specific surface when your control sticks are at the neutral point and are not moved. Once you move that stick, the gyro on that specific surface is turned off. The amount of gyro gain reduces as the stick moves further, but depending on the priority that is set, that's what determines when the gains are down to 0. For example, with a priority of 100, the gains reduce proportionally to the amount of stick movement and is at 0 when the stick is fully extended in one direction. If your priority is say 150, then the gyro gains are at 0 when the stick is half way moved in either direction and if it is at 200 (which no one uses) the gains and gyro are tuned off as soon as the stick moves at all. With my gyro's, if I use "heading hold" rates on say the aileron, when I roll the plane over say 45 degrees on the bench, the aileron goes almost fully deflected to correct that assuming I do not touch the aileron stick. If I move the ailerons while it is still sitting rolled at a 45 degree angel, then the gyro assumes that this is the "new" intended orientation and the ailerons return to neutral, even though the plane is still sitting there at a 45 degree angle on the bench.

                  Most likely after take-off, you retracted the gear and began a slow aileron roll and turn to begin your pattern, at which time the gyro controlling the aileron was turned down or off and then the gyro "thought" this was the new correct orientation. If you would have never touched the sticks at all after retracting the gear, it would have continued rolling until you moved the aileron stick. And if you happened to be using the aileron stick while the gear was being retracted, the gyro would have never fully deflected an aileron because it was turned down or off while you were using that stick.

                  On the other hand, I could just be full of a bunch of so who knows, maybe better to think the Angels are with you
                  Hugh "Wildman" Wiedman
                  Hangar: FlightLine-90mm F18 Canadian Demo, F16 Wild Weasel, F4 Phantom, F4 Blue Angel, 1600mm Corsair & Spitfire, Olive & Silver B-24, Stinger 90, Red 80mm Avanti. Extreme Flight-Slick 60, 60" Extra 300 V2, 62" MXS Heavy Metal, 62" MXS Green, 62" Demonstrator. FMS-1700mm P-51, Red Bull Corsair. E-Flite-70mm twin SU-30, Beast Bi-Plane 60", P2 Bi-Plane, P-51, Apprentice.

                  Comment


                  • the real question is: did u buy a lottery ticket before your luck ran out?

                    joe
                    Platt: fw190d9 Dynaflite:PT-19 IMP:Macchi202 ESM:fw190 ESM:Tank, Hien Jackson:DH-2 BH:macchi200 Extr:fw190 Holman:me109F H9spit2 FL:F4u,spit 9 FW:me262 GP:us60, Stuka, cub, F4u PZ:me109, albi EF Hurri, T-28 FMS: 2x fw190, me109 Lone Star:Skat Kat RSCombat:2xfw190d9

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                    • Originally posted by paladin View Post
                      the real question is: did u buy a lottery ticket before your luck ran out?

                      joe
                      Did not get a lottery ticket but I should have!

                      Comment


                      • Took delivery of my Corsair today and will probably start the build tomorrow.

                        Would you guys recommend bypassing the blue box for the control surfaces? Or is there a way to absolutely confirm the blue box is beyond question? Thanks and can't wait to get this bird in the air!

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                        • 25 flights on my Birdcage " Zero Issue"
                          Current Hanger: Flight line 1600mm Corsair, Durafly 109, Twisted Hobby Extra, Extreme Flight EDGE, FW, F4.F22, Byron T-6, Top Flite P-47, Top Flite P-40 , SebArt Avanti, Yellow aircraft Spitfire, Top RC P-51 Hanger 9 P-51, FW F-14 Jeti DS16 Carbon

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                          • No trouble here after about 60 flights and 1 woops crash. Going strong

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                            • Thanks guys. Sometimes it's too easy to focus on the odd failure instead of the much more common successes.

                              Unboxed my birdcage today and it looks great. Let the build commence :-)

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by GooberRC View Post
                                Thanks guys. Sometimes it's too easy to focus on the odd failure instead of the much more common successes.

                                Unboxed my birdcage today and it looks great. Let the build commence :-)
                                It's human nature to remember that one punch in the face over the many pats on the back.

                                Comment


                                • Several more flights on my Corsair and no issues, flys great! Landing have been good but not yet perfect but no retract failures!! Love it, love it!!

                                  Comment


                                  • Originally posted by Hugh Wiedman View Post
                                    paulsnapp the more I think about it, the more I'm sure that's exactly what happened as I described in the post above. The gyro is only "working" on a specific surface when your control sticks are at the neutral point and are not moved. Once you move that stick, the gyro on that specific surface is turned off. The amount of gyro gain reduces as the stick moves further, but depending on the priority that is set, that's what determines when the gains are down to 0. For example, with a priority of 100, the gains reduce proportionally to the amount of stick movement and is at 0 when the stick is fully extended in one direction. If your priority is say 150, then the gyro gains are at 0 when the stick is half way moved in either direction and if it is at 200 (which no one uses) the gains and gyro are tuned off as soon as the stick moves at all. With my gyro's, if I use "heading hold" rates on say the aileron, when I roll the plane over say 45 degrees on the bench, the aileron goes almost fully deflected to correct that assuming I do not touch the aileron stick. If I move the ailerons while it is still sitting rolled at a 45 degree angel, then the gyro assumes that this is the "new" intended orientation and the ailerons return to neutral, even though the plane is still sitting there at a 45 degree angle on the bench.

                                    Most likely after take-off, you retracted the gear and began a slow aileron roll and turn to begin your pattern, at which time the gyro controlling the aileron was turned down or off and then the gyro "thought" this was the new correct orientation. If you would have never touched the sticks at all after retracting the gear, it would have continued rolling until you moved the aileron stick. And if you happened to be using the aileron stick while the gear was being retracted, the gyro would have never fully deflected an aileron because it was turned down or off while you were using that stick.

                                    On the other hand, I could just be full of a bunch of so who knows, maybe better to think the Angels are with you
                                    After a lot of pondering and watching gyro theory online I think you are right. I do have one question for you. With the plane level on the bench and in low rate, my aileron deflection is 24mm as I move the stick from stop to stop. If I turn the gyro on and in rate mode, still in low rate, still level on the bench, I now have an aileron deflection of 32mm as I move the stick from stop to stop. When in flight, does this mean that when my gyro is on my roll rate will no longer be in low rate (24mm) but rather in a higher rate (32mm)? Or is this just a phenomenon that occurs sitting still on the bench and in flight my roll rate will be the same (24mm) whether the gyro is on or off? Thanks for helping me understand!

                                    Comment


                                    • Originally posted by paulsnapp View Post

                                      After a lot of pondering and watching gyro theory online I think you are right. I do have one question for you. With the plane level on the bench and in low rate, my aileron deflection is 24mm as I move the stick from stop to stop. If I turn the gyro on and in rate mode, still in low rate, still level on the bench, I now have an aileron deflection of 32mm as I move the stick from stop to stop. When in flight, does this mean that when my gyro is on my roll rate will no longer be in low rate (24mm) but rather in a higher rate (32mm)? Or is this just a phenomenon that occurs sitting still on the bench and in flight my roll rate will be the same (24mm) whether the gyro is on or off? Thanks for helping me understand!
                                      That's an interesting question and I have absolutely no idea why that happens for you. I believe you are using a different receiver than I am. I use the Spektrum AR636 (discontinued but in my Corsair and about 25 others) and now the AR 637T AS3X. For me, on the bench with all my aircraft, with the gyro on or off the surface travel is always the same depending on the low/mid/high rate switch setting I programmed in the TX. The rates should not be dependent on the gyro, and in the Spektrum receivers and TX, I set the dual rates and expos completely separate from the gyro gains. They are assigned to a 3 position switch in the TX. This is standard for the new AR 637T, dual rates and expo are programmed into the TX, having nothing to do with the gyro programming. Although with the AR 636, you were supposed to program the dual rates and expo with each of the 3 Flight Mode settings and gain settings in the receiver, I never did (left them at 100% rate/0%expo). I always programmed those in the TX, thus having 3 different gyro settings (tied to my flap switch-higher gains with take-off and even higher-80% with landing flaps) and then had 3 independent rate/expo settings available on each of the 3 Flight modes, thus giving 9 potential setups (although in reality only use mid/high rates on fly around and/or landing). If I remember you have a futaba receiver and separate gyro, and all I can surmise is that there is also some DR/Expo that is somehow programmed in on the gyro itself. If it is doing this on the bench, I'm sure it will also occur in the air so your low rate with gyro off is not the same as with the gyro on. That sounds a little annoying to me! It's a big difference as well, 8 mm difference on the aileron is nothing to sneeze at and as I contemplate it, I see no way to offset that. Obviously with the gyro on mode, it is increasing the rate by 33% over the gyro off mode. Wonder what, if anything it is doing to expo?
                                      Hugh "Wildman" Wiedman
                                      Hangar: FlightLine-90mm F18 Canadian Demo, F16 Wild Weasel, F4 Phantom, F4 Blue Angel, 1600mm Corsair & Spitfire, Olive & Silver B-24, Stinger 90, Red 80mm Avanti. Extreme Flight-Slick 60, 60" Extra 300 V2, 62" MXS Heavy Metal, 62" MXS Green, 62" Demonstrator. FMS-1700mm P-51, Red Bull Corsair. E-Flite-70mm twin SU-30, Beast Bi-Plane 60", P2 Bi-Plane, P-51, Apprentice.

                                      Comment


                                      • Originally posted by Hugh Wiedman View Post

                                        That's an interesting question and I have absolutely no idea why that happens for you. I believe you are using a different receiver than I am. I use the Spektrum AR636 (discontinued but in my Corsair and about 25 others) and now the AR 637T AS3X. For me, on the bench with all my aircraft, with the gyro on or off the surface travel is always the same depending on the low/mid/high rate switch setting I programmed in the TX. The rates should not be dependent on the gyro, and in the Spektrum receivers and TX, I set the dual rates and expos completely separate from the gyro gains. They are assigned to a 3 position switch in the TX. This is standard for the new AR 637T, dual rates and expo are programmed into the TX, having nothing to do with the gyro programming. Although with the AR 636, you were supposed to program the dual rates and expo with each of the 3 Flight Mode settings and gain settings in the receiver, I never did (left them at 100% rate/0%expo). I always programmed those in the TX, thus having 3 different gyro settings (tied to my flap switch-higher gains with take-off and even higher-80% with landing flaps) and then had 3 independent rate/expo settings available on each of the 3 Flight modes, thus giving 9 potential setups (although in reality only use mid/high rates on fly around and/or landing). If I remember you have a futaba receiver and separate gyro, and all I can surmise is that there is also some DR/Expo that is somehow programmed in on the gyro itself. If it is doing this on the bench, I'm sure it will also occur in the air so your low rate with gyro off is not the same as with the gyro on. That sounds a little annoying to me! It's a big difference as well, 8 mm difference on the aileron is nothing to sneeze at and as I contemplate it, I see no way to offset that. Obviously with the gyro on mode, it is increasing the rate by 33% over the gyro off mode. Wonder what, if anything it is doing to expo?
                                        I bought a brand new top of the line 18 channel transmitter, a Futaba 8 channel receiver from Futaba in March along with their $79 six axis gyro. The programming you describe above is exactly how the programming is with the Futaba transmitter, nothing to do with the gyro. The gyro has 3 gain pots on it for each axis but that is it for the gyro. Nobody where I live uses anything but Spektrum so they have no clues. The Futaba tech in Huntsville, AL knows a lot about the transmitter but near nothing about their gyro. I have been sending him all my questions too but his responses are more like guesses than solutions. So I am at a loss where to turn next. I guess I need someone who is using Futaba and is familiar with their GYA460 gyro. I do believe it is a mere setup / programming solution.

                                        Comment


                                        • Originally posted by paulsnapp View Post

                                          I bought a brand new top of the line 18 channel transmitter, a Futaba 8 channel receiver from Futaba in March along with their $79 six axis gyro. The programming you describe above is exactly how the programming is with the Futaba transmitter, nothing to do with the gyro. The gyro has 3 gain pots on it for each axis but that is it for the gyro. Nobody where I live uses anything but Spektrum so they have no clues. The Futaba tech in Huntsville, AL knows a lot about the transmitter but near nothing about their gyro. I have been sending him all my questions too but his responses are more like guesses than solutions. So I am at a loss where to turn next. I guess I need someone who is using Futaba and is familiar with their GYA460 gyro. I do believe it is a mere setup / programming solution.
                                          Hi Paul, I just bought the Corsair as well, still haven’t flown it, I have the Futaba 16SZ radio, which is very similar to your radio, I plan on using it on the Corsair as well as a gyro, however, I have used the same radio on the Freewing F22 using the Eagle A3-LV2 and have not had any issues, setup was not difficult. You might want to consider the Eagle gyro from MotionRC, I know it works and its only $22. I have 3 of them with my Futaba radio and never had an issue. Just a thought.


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