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Official Black Horse Westland Lysander 2540mm ARF Discussion Thread

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  • #41
    Originally posted by axerhand1976 View Post
    thx alpha.
    Hey there Axerhand, I checked my notes and per the factory with the OS 33cc we flew in the Lysander there wasn't any nose weight. I recall that engine is around 36oz bare (fact check me if I'm wrong on that), so adjust your projections from there. It's not like the Storch.
    Camp My Instagram @Alpha.Makes

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    • #42
      MrSmoothie, you and your dad are doing great work! I appreciate the detail and craftsmanship on both your panel and pilot.

      Are you also planning on running different main wheels on the Lysander? I liked the hard foam rubber wheels for the rough terrain we were flying off of in Vietnam, but it seems a couple of the guys here are swapping in softer wheels likely better suited for their flying fields. I'm curious what you're going with.
      Camp My Instagram @Alpha.Makes

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      • #43
        I have the Dubro 4 1/2 inchers in the back of my mind, but I thought I would wait given your experience with the wheels provided. Used 6 inchers on my CarbonZ Cub and really liked them.

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        • #44
          thx alpha for the info. im looking ahead for a new plane if my esm bu-181 goes belly up again......

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          • #45
            Here is Mr Smoothie's instrument panel installed. Top center section is actually a raised panel. He's up to his eyeballs in his AT-6 conversion to Tora Zero, so we've slowed down a bit. Click image for larger version

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            • #46
              Alpha, thanks for the very enlightening article in Model Aviation. Had no idea of the complexity involved in producing a foamie.

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              • #47
                I second that -- Alpha, great article.

                Here are some new photos of the 3D printed crewmen. These are hollow (no infill) but were injected with Loctite polyurethane expanding foam - the idea is that this may prevent the PLA from deforming when it gets warm. The foam seems to have a higher temperature threshold and is quite firm. You can see the final weight was pretty good. Painting was with Tamaya acylic, but this was over several coats of SEM high-build primer which is great stuff and helped eliminate much of the visible "lining".

                The Lewis Gun is the Williams Bros. 1/6 scale kit. The mount was my Tinkercad design based on the mount shown in William Wylam's scale drawings, with the gun in the stowed position.

                Today we finished most of the setup and rigging with some valuable help from a flying buddy who has about 200 RC models and is a jet mechanic "in real life". If all goes well, the maiden may happen tomorrow morning...

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                • #48
                  Originally posted by MrSmoothie View Post
                  I second that -- Alpha, great article.

                  Here are some new photos of the 3D printed crewmen. These are hollow (no infill) but were injected with Loctite polyurethane expanding foam - the idea is that this may prevent the PLA from deforming when it gets warm. The foam seems to have a higher temperature threshold and is quite firm. You can see the final weight was pretty good. Painting was with Tamaya acylic, but this was over several coats of SEM high-build primer which is great stuff and helped eliminate much of the visible "lining".

                  The Lewis Gun is the Williams Bros. 1/6 scale kit. The mount was my Tinkercad design based on the mount shown in William Wylam's scale drawings, with the gun in the stowed position.

                  Today we finished most of the setup and rigging with some valuable help from a flying buddy who has about 200 RC models and is a jet mechanic "in real life". If all goes well, the maiden may happen tomorrow morning...

                  Click image for larger version

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                  Beautiful work and amazing craftsmanship!

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                  • #49
                    Yesterday we spent three hours with the club expert on rigging (he's a certified A&P) and today got the throws exactly as per manual.

                    The maiden followed shortly thereafter.

                    Here's a video (complete with my butt up in the air taking photos before the flight). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=llbo...rZAXMdtE2H5n1Y

                    We spent a lot of time getting the throws exactly as per manual, but clearly they were not enough. I had full up-elevator leading up to the touchdown (and flip). In retrospect, I think we had some up-elevator in the setup (and had to use all my down trim in flight), and didn't notice it for concentrating on several other things -- or it may still need additional nose weight -- 9 oz in there now. Most of the flight was at half-throttle or it would have been climbing.

                    The landing was looking good -- until it wasn't. I was holding full up elevator during the final few feet and it wasn't enough. A surprising amount of damage from the flip-over -- forward canopy shattered, cowl bottom crunched in, and one wheel pant front all cracked. I've already glassed the cowl and wheel pant and they will repair nicely. The canopy has to be replaced of course -- they only sell the front and back together for $60. Dad got the last one in stock. Right now I'm pondering adding an internal framework right where the sliding portion would meet the windscreen portion -- either 3D print or plywood. Sort of a roll-over bar.


                    Once we get it set up better, it should be pretty sweet -- it was very docile -- just sluggish response with the current throws. We are going to add a couple ounces more nose weight, make sure the elevator is neutral, and increase aileron and elevator throws. It flew fine at both flap settings -- landing was with full flaps.

                    With any luck we may have the second flight this week -- I've taped the canopy together with clear shipping tape until the replacement arrives.


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                    • #50
                      I'm surprised that nose over didn't crack the wings did on my one... anyways at least u got it in the air, mine didn't even get that far.....

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                      • #51
                        In real life I don't get the impression that this plane was "fun" to fly

                        http://www.vintagewings.ca/VintageNe...lver-Kite.aspx

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                        • #52
                          Two more flights this morning. Repairs made to cowl, and wheel pant (light fiberglass and paint, turned out great -- new canopy on the way; old one clear taped for now). I pushed the cracked areas into position as best as possible, and then used thin Bob Smith CA to stabilize things Then light fiberglass cloth, a few layers -- inside the wheel pant, and outside on the cowl. Some minor filling and priming, and then paint -- latex for the green, and a mix of tan, yellow, black and silver Tamiya acrylic for the cowl ring.

                          Since the first flight, we almost doubled the throws, and added rudder mix. Added 3 oz. more weight inside cowl (12 oz. total).

                          First take-off was great, flew so much better. Rudder mix helped and found the middle rates was more responsive. Landed on geotex, on the mains -- the instant the wheels touched, it went down on the nose. No flip thankfully, and just some bruising.

                          Changed rates settings, so low rate was same as previous middle rate. Increased full flaps a lot more, and added a little up trim for full flaps.

                          Second takeoff was nearly a disaster as the model was on the verge of a stall and did the side-to-side happy dance with me correcting. We'll get to that in a minute. Once past that, the flight was terrific and flew hands-off. This time I used the increased full flaps and attempted a three point landing, which worked great -- no tip-over.

                          The wheels were changed to low bounce Dubros since the first flight. I think there as some intermittent binding going on (being corrected) and that on the second flight it had not reached the same speed as in previous takeoffs (given the same length of runway and throttle). Got very lucky that I was able to recover, and was really the only blemish today, especially given the overall flight trim and second landing today.

                          I think the control throws indicate in the brochure are totally inadequate. I tend to fly with lower throws and low rates. But the response was very sluggish to the point of being uncontrollable with the manual rates. If you are getting ready to fly one of these, I would give serious consideration to drastically increasing them. They looked inadequate when we set up, but I gave the designers the benefit of the doubt.

                          In the air, this is a beautiful flying model and easy to fly once set up and trimmed.


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                          • #53
                            Nice report and glad you are getting her dialed... Any video by chance?
                            My YouTube RC videos:
                            https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCDZ..._bdGEJBmtV7YUw

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                            • #54
                              I wasn't happy about the way the forward canopy shattered on the flip-over landing on the maiden. For the flights today, I used 3m clear packing tape to hold it all together as we await the replacement part (got the last one at MRC). I wondered what might be done to help prevent this in the future, and designed a "rollover" structure in Tinkercad, which was 3D printed with PLA, using 30% infill. 0.8mm walls. Very strong. The mounting posts were reinforced with some .047 music wire, CA'ed into holes drilled with a pin vise. We used it on the flights today and it seems to add a lot of strength to the canopy against downward pressure (although we had no flip-overs). In actual use, it was surprisingly unobtrusive, and it'll be painted interior green to match the rest of the cockpit.

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                              • #55
                                Nice report and glad you are getting her dialed... Any video by chance?
                                There's a video of the maiden, but it was so out of trim, and then there's my lousy flip-over landing (that was FULL UP elevator by the way), that I was going to wait until Dad edits what he shot today. He wasn't sure if he got my second (good) landing. But I made him promise to edit out my "happy dance near disaster" second takeoff!

                                But for now, take this with a grain of salt (or two). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=llbo...fSHu0Aho3tv8ig


                                And now, here is video of the second and third flights, with my first acceptable landing. Throws, rates, and rudder mix dialed in by the last clips. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MD7RK47vg5g

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                                • #56
                                  Unfortunately, Dad was flying the Lysander, reported a loss of signal, and she went in -- total loss. He has pulled all the electronics and has them for sale, as well as two new parts which may be hard to find going forward -- the cowl and front canopy. Then there are the two 1/6 scale crew figures I 3D printed and painted, which survived intact. Don't know if it's cool to post details here or not, so I'll leave it at that until I hear something from a moderator or others looking at this forum. Ad on RCG.

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                                  • #57
                                    Hi, I'm new to Squawk and trying to get back into RC. I'm purchasing a lysander and wanted to know what receiver and battery to use. I'm going gas with a 30 or 35cc with rear exhaust.

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                                    • #58
                                      Originally posted by gmancc View Post
                                      Hi, I'm new to Squawk and trying to get back into RC. I'm purchasing a lysander and wanted to know what receiver and battery to use. I'm going gas with a 30 or 35cc with rear exhaust.
                                      Hi I am new here as well. Also going gas in mine. I'm dropping in a UMS 50cc 7 Cyl Radial. You need to have both an Ignition Battery and a flight battery. A 2600mah Life would be suitable for the ignition. Make sure you use 2 batteries and don't interconnect.

                                      Looks like beefing up the canopy is a must. I will be flying off grass.

                                      Cheers

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                                      • #59
                                        Welcome to Hobby Squawk BJR981S ! I have the Fairchild from Black Horse but would love to fly this one one day as well. Keep us posted on your process and thanks for coming aboard

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                                        • #60
                                          Originally posted by James View Post
                                          Welcome to Hobby Squawk BJR981S ! I have the Fairchild from Black Horse but would love to fly this one one day as well. Keep us posted on your process and thanks for coming aboard
                                          Thanks for the Welcome. I have a few Blackhorse models in my project list.

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