Yeah that’s true. Just the guardian is always powering ailerons elevator and rudder constantly. Then you hit the flaps once in position there not drawing much and then hit the retracts. And then the landing lights etc. It all adds up in the amps and could cause a brownout at the worse possible time. If I have 10amps from both of the esc’s then there is not much of a problem. I mean this plane has 16 servos in total so it must draw more than 5amps out of the box.
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I'd like to unfortunately add some dismal info to the conversation.
The way the BEC's are paralleled in the FL P-38 and Tigercat is because they are supposedly proprietary designs that allow them to operate this way and were designed specifically for these twins.
I was involved in the dialog almost 4 years ago to get Motion(Alpha) to acknowledge this. The reason it all came up is because until the proprietary claim you could not put BEC's in parallel because they would fight each for regulation and is still the case with the other industry BEC's. If you have a ESC failure you will need to replace with the one identified for the FL P-38/F7F because there aren't (that I aware of) any other ESC's out there on the market that have BEC's capable of paralleling for twin operations.
The other issue is the Scorpion Backup Guard. Great device and I personally use them but the problem is they have now become part of that rare class of materials call Unobtainium.
Amain and Innov8tive Designs were the only ones selling besides Scorpion and all three have dried up.
https://www.amainhobbies.com/scorpio...sc-bug/p239994
Best regards,Warbird Charlie
HSD Skyraider FlightLine OV-10 FMS 1400: P-40B, P-51, F4U, F6F, T-28, P-40E, Pitts, 1700 F4U & F7F, FOX glider Freewing A-6, T-33, P-51 Dynam ME-262, Waco TF Giant P-47; ESM F7F-3 LX PBJ-1 EFL CZ T-28, C-150, 1500 P-51 & FW-190Comment
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Yes I understand this set up is one of only very few that can run parallel. My other twins have the live wire taken out of one of the leads to the rx. I’m still hoping I have 10amps available as discussed previously. I’ve looked for a scorpion and you’re right there nearly non existent. About the esc’S. I might still power the rx and auxiliaries with one esc and power the guardian and flight controls solely on the other esc.Comment
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What a load of bull!!!Originally posted by OV10 View PostI'd like to unfortunately add some dismal info to the conversation.
The way the BEC's are paralleled in the FL P-38 and Tigercat is because they are supposedly proprietary designs that allow them to operate this way and were designed specifically for these twins.
I was involved in the dialog almost 4 years ago to get Motion(Alpha) to acknowledge this. The reason it all came up is because until the proprietary claim you could not put BEC's in parallel because they would fight each for regulation and is still the case with the other industry BEC's. If you have a ESC failure you will need to replace with the one identified for the FL P-38/F7F because there aren't (that I aware of) any other ESC's out there on the market that have BEC's capable of paralleling for twin operations.
The other issue is the Scorpion Backup Guard. Great device and I personally use them but the problem is they have now become part of that rare class of materials call Unobtainium.
Amain and Innov8tive Designs were the only ones selling besides Scorpion and all three have dried up.
https://www.amainhobbies.com/scorpio...sc-bug/p239994
Best regards,
There has been planes from Freewing ,FMS ,Durafly , HobbyKing , Avios, Dynam and others with 2 or more ESCs in parallel for years!!
These.........
*FMS B-25
*FMS P-38
*Freewing Mosquito
*Freewing B-17
*Freewing ME262
*Durafly Cessna 310
*Durafly Skymule
*Durafly DH-88 Comet
*HobbyKing Mosquito
*HobbyKing Lancaster
*Dynam Cessna 310
*Dynam ME262
*Dynam B-26
*Dynam C-47
*Dynam DC-3
*Dynam Gloster Meteor
*Dynam BF-110
*Dynam Catalina
*Tian Sheng C-17
*Tian Sheng A-400
*Tian Sheng A-380
*Supreme Hobbies A320
*Supreme Hobbies A330
*Supreme Hobbies A340
*HSD B-25
*Sonic Models B-17
*Avios BushMule
*Avios Albatross
....... are some of the ones I know that fly fine with 2 or 4 ESCs at least.
and some of those on that list are older than ten years.
So no Freewing/Motion as you say don’t have “proprietary designs” as you say.
LURCH
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Yeah I’ve just checked the bush mule earlier and it too is connected in parallel. This must give more amps as there only 2amp bec’S and have 7 servos to control.Comment
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Yes I’ve already said that it doubles your amps.Originally posted by Andyxros View Post
Put it this way.
You have 2 4s 2200mah batteries.
If you put your batteries in series you double your volts and your capacity stays the same correct?(So you now have 1 8s 2200mah battery)
Now if you put your batteries in parallel what happens??
Your volts stay the same but your usable capacity doubles(you now have a 4s 4400mah battery)
LURCH
P.S. If your still worried about it, take a look at the Avios C-130.
It has 1 Ubec that is 5V 3A!!! Yes only 3A.
Now that plane has....
*14 servos
*9 Leds
*2 retracts
*2 or even 3 control boards.Comment
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Taz101 this is the info that tops it off for me. I’ve been double checking the parallel and series (which I use to run 2 7.4v batts to 14.8 for rc car) And all looks good to me how it is. I tried to have two separate circuits but one way or another it all still links power to all, probably through the distribution block. I have powers up and run all controls at once for a test time and no brown out. I know there’s no air flow or props running but it’s the best I can do. Got to get her in the air or what’s the point.
i just think it’s the same as jump starting a car. You have 2,12 volt batts but will have more amps combined. Should be the same for the plane. ThanksComment
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taz101Originally posted by taz101 View Post
Since you want to characterize the truth as a "load of bull" which is to simply imply that my statements are lies now requires that I set the record straight for your uninformed background.
I know of your aggressive commenting techniques over on the "other" forum and simply spewing a list of twins to justify your comment doesn't make it so.
Do you know the difference between a linear mode and a switched mode ESC? As an IEEE I do understand the science and know what I'm talking about
A linear mode ESC can run in parallel whereas the switched mode can't. I won't explain why because I'm not here to give a dissertation on the engineering.
A linear mode ESC is atypically rated less than 40A.
The majority of the models you listed had linear mode.
If switched mode ESC's are used, one of the red wires is usually isolated to prevent them from having voltage regulation control issues.
Switched mode ESC's are generally 40A and larger in size.
As I said, I was part of the dialog over 4 years ago regarding the confirmation of the FW proprietary design for a switched ESC.
Your comment of "So no Freewing/Motion as you say don’t have “proprietary designs” as you say." shall now be shown to be incorrect.
Here is a direct link to those discussions (post#402,403 & 405) regarding proprietary design from December 2016 on the FL Tigercat thread.
Post#402 https://www.hobbysquawk.com/forum/rc...5077#post55077
Post#403 https://www.hobbysquawk.com/forum/rc...5084#post55084
Post#405 https://www.hobbysquawk.com/forum/rc...5087#post55087
Your apology is not required but appreciated
Best regards,Warbird Charlie
HSD Skyraider FlightLine OV-10 FMS 1400: P-40B, P-51, F4U, F6F, T-28, P-40E, Pitts, 1700 F4U & F7F, FOX glider Freewing A-6, T-33, P-51 Dynam ME-262, Waco TF Giant P-47; ESM F7F-3 LX PBJ-1 EFL CZ T-28, C-150, 1500 P-51 & FW-190Comment
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Just to make it simple:
If the “Scorpion Backup Guard” is no longer available,
then just take a receiver battery. Normally a 2S lipo is sufficient. And from the ESC’s you only take the signals.Comment
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Maidened today she flew well and scale. Very nice plane. Landed beautifully. Thanks for the help guys.
Andy.Comment
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Hi Andyxros,
congratulations for your successful flight.
How did you configure it now? Did you use the Eagletree Guardian?Comment
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Looking back and re-reading a few posts, a couple of thoughts dawned on me (well, more than a couple but I'll keep my comments about a certain individual who should apologize but likely will never do so, to myself).
1. Since a Flightline P-38 is the plane in this discussion (I had one), it should be noted that if you don't have the "sport upgrade" power system and props, this plane tends to fly best at constant high throttle (3/4 throttle to full). Anything less, and it has a tendency to stall in turns. Most "crashes" happen as a result of flying near or below 1/2 throttle. I felt that the stock power system was a bit anemic and in turns, if the throttle wasn't near the top, the plane began to wallow like a hippo in mud and threatened to fall out of the sky. An Eagle Tree device isn't likely going to save it in those circumstances because it won't defy the laws of physics. I sold it as it wasn't very pleasurable to fly when I had to peg the throttle most of the time. I like my planes with plenty of "zip" at 1/2 throttle.
2. I didn't realize that the Scorpion BACK UP guard battery is no longer available. That's too bad as it was a marvelous little device for some pilots who are constantly trying to track down electronic gremlins. Even though I got rid of the two I had, at that time in my flying career, they were useful and gave "peace of mind".
3. By using a RX battery and cutting the power wires from both of the stock ESCs on this plane, you are simply replacing 2 receiver power sources (BECs) with one. Seems like a step backwards to me. The beauty of the Scorpion was that it lies dormant (stays on "stand by") until it senses a voltage drop in the RX and then instantly kicks in to power the RX. This then, becomes a true safety device (or redundancy if you will). You aren't replacing one thing with another. You are "backing up" one thing (in this case, two things) with another.
Well, I think I'm done "preaching" in this thread. It took a nasty turn when unpleasantries reared its ugly head (NOT OV-10, just to be clear). There are many ways to state your case without being rude and arrogant.Comment
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Configured it just the normal way and she held. I did draw test as best I could on the ground but we all know in the air is a different thing. The guardian held well. She doesn’t turn well without a bit of rudder but I do have my rates at 70 so I was full left and right on the controls and steady turns. Or maybe the guardian just limited it. I did check how much limit I had and it was Near vertical In hand so don’t know why she didn’t bank a lot. Il just leave as is for now as she was good to control but did need power all the time at mostly 60% even in the turns. She did seem to glide around though and did a few low passes which I don’t normally do. I was actually testing for landing but she looked that good in the second I dropped her smoothly down on the wheels and that was that. 👍👍👍👍Comment
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Hi Andyxros, XViper,
Again congratulations to your successful flight with the Guardian. In case of stall, the Guardian does not replace the users quick reaction to give full power, but it for sure levels the plane dependent on your gyro gain. With a higher gain the plane really jumps up, the user only has to combine it with full throttle.
In my opinion is the power supply via two BEC’s not proper.
Most crashes are because of power and/or receiver failure, and nobody knows then what really happened.
The old fashioned receiver battery supply is still quite often used.
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Yeah it’s think I will have to look into it with a separate battery. Just that the servos are 5volts I think. And a 2s batt might be too much juice. ??Comment
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Hi Andyxros,
the 2S lipo was just an example.
There are a lots of different receiver batteries, also adjustable in the voltage. They are not all lipos.
Also an external BEC 10 A is possible.
The overall advantage is that you have only one power cable to the receiver.Comment
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The castle regulator looks a good idea. I’ve just looked and you can get tx batts at 4.8v etc. Just more weight to balance out though. Think a castle will be the best route. 👍👍👍👍Comment
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