Official FMS 1500mm P-47D Razorback Thread

[rifleman_btx]

Did you trim it out a full throttle? If you did and when you were coming in with no power it could be drifting because the effects of the motor pulling it left is gone and so pulls right. Just my thoughts on that part.

[e4dragongunner]

Hey WAY BAD Welcome :-)

LOVE THIS STUFF!!

Take off

• Don't jam throttle and pull elevator.
• Apply power smoothly.
• Tail should lift You will need to catch the yaw left with right rudder to keep her rolling straight
• Apply back pressure evenly
• She should lift off smoothly.

Quick side note: (I remember my Top flight 60 size P-51 , built up wood, glassed, 12 pounds. Came out of the sky like a field box! ) Alas those days are history!!!


Landing
What not to do.....Try to land at idle.

They need to be flown down( kind of) , but.... once you get the hang of it you can get it touching down very nicely and at a very comfortable speed. It is Foam for goodness sake. :-)


Carry a bit of power on final. and ... ( wait for it cuz this is KEY)

Manage you altitude with the throttle (not the elevator).
Manage you airspeed with the Elevator.


Hope this helps..... Also a SIM can be very useful for establishing this technique.

[WAY BAD]

Yes, that helps me a lot!

Thanks guys for all the info! Definitely gives me a better understanding then what I currently have for sure. Going to give it some more flight time today hopefully. Fingers crossed...

[Grossman56]

Alright, so finally got this bird in the air. I see everyone talking about how well this plane flies. I'm having trouble getting this thing to take off smooth, and my landings, holy smokes it's a hand full compared to what I'm used to.

I'm having a big time issue with the plane wanting to stall left wing down on take off. On my landing approach, I'll be lined up perfect for my landing, and it starts veering off to the right every time. I'm used to landing with no power with my other planes.

So my questions to you guys that flies scale birds. Do these planes not like to land with no power? On take off, I was told by a guy at the local hobby shop here, that you do not use full power on take offs when flying a Warbird. Is that a true statement with this plane as well?

Any advice will be greatly appreciated, as I'm pretty discouraged at the moment with this plane. I fly on my Real Flight sim, and I have no issues at all flying scale planes. I know it's a lot different, but dang I figured it would be closer than this. I though I was a decent enough RC pilot to try my hands at a scale bird. Not so sure of that at this point in time...

I got to thinking, maybe this isn't the plane I should have started with to learn scale flying. If that is a true statement, do any of you experienced guys have a better plane that I should start with?

Oh my, shades of me not that long ago, let's talk.....
First , landings
Warbirds must have some power on while landing, otherwise they'll tip stall on you.
Here's the well known secret that the boys put me onto at Nefi last year.
"Use throttle to control descent"
Set your flaps to 15 degrees for half flap and 30 degrees for full. Drop your altitude while doing your approach to base leg, great time to drop gear and flaps and get her flying low and level. Turn into base leg and line her up over your reference point (the ground reference you use to turn over so that you're lined up with the runway). Get your fuselage level and reduce power to control your descent. She'll plunk onto her mains pretty as you please, kill the throttle then plant the tail, the worst thing that will happen is she'l hop back up into the air, reduce back pressure and let her settle. I personally give her a slight amount of back pressure and a 'one...two...' count then try planting her tail, they slow down pretty quickly.

Take off's
Sounds like the motor is getting her into the air before there's enough wind under the wings for her to actually fly, if you know what I mean. Probably advancing throttle too quickly. Sounds like you're dealing with the P factor on takeoff as you didn't mention the planes wanting to swing to the left.
Now, every tail dragger does that so you probably learned that one earlier. My thought (and of course I haven't seen you fly or know your experience) is that you may have trimmed your rudder to take care of some or all of that pull. So what happens is it works in reverse when landing, that would explain the right side pull. Is it doing it before the tail wheel touches? Tail wheel might not be perfectly straight as well.

Man, I struggled with take offs and landings with my warbirds as well, so I feel your pain. I came off of tail dragger low wing Pandoras and would land those with no power, because you can, simple as that. I remember watching Shangrila do the dance of death while on final because I reduced throttle too far and was trying to hold her nose up, she'd keep dropping a wing, trying to tip stall.
I don't know the details of your setup and the quirks of this particular airplane, but, I do know that if she's trimmed up properly and the controls are centered as exactly as you can get them, if your CG is spot on or at least very close and you follow the Warbird Rules as taught to me by OV-10 (Warbird Charlie), Mike, Ryan, Lon and a few others, you too can make a success of this. Heck if I can do it, so can you!!

Grossman56

[Grossman56]

Went digging' into the Grossman56 archives for you Way Bad. The wife was hot on the camera that day and I manged to nail one of the prettiest landings with Old Crow. Check the fuse position in each frame, it's textbook!!

Grossman56

[OV10]

Well said Gman and great analysis on the probable rudder trim. ;)I was gonna add my two cents with that thought but now I don't need to.
You, rifleman and e4dragon have basically covered all the fundamental bases to help get WayBad back on the path to flying a warbird where it will be enjoyable.

[rifleman_btx]

That's how we roll, do our best to create success for everyone

[Grossman56]

Right on!

Grossman56

[WAY BAD]

I want to thank you all very much for the schooling! I did exactly what you all were telling me to do and to look for, and man my take offs and landings are much improved now. Knowing what to do and what NOT to do, yielded me 3 successful flights with smooth landings to boot. Now I just need to learn how to roll this bird in the air. Obviously she's not going to act like my 3D planes, so I have a learning curve on that a head of me as well.

Can't say thank you all enough! Definitely much more excited about my purchase now.

And just in case any of you were curious about the plane dog legging on me on landings. You guys were right about me trimming the rudder to compensate for the take off. I had forgot about it when I was coming down for my landings, go figure...

[rifleman_btx]

Excellent!

[Grossman56]

That just makes my day, to be able to pass on what others so generously gave to me. Happy landings buddy!!
Get yourself three mistakes of altitude before rolling. I find that when you roll and she's upside down, be prepared to give it a little nose down elevator (when it's upside down, this translates to nose up to the airplane) Most warbirds need this, if its excessive, bring your battery back a small amount, the CG may be a little nose heavy, find the sweet spot for the battery.

Sounds like you had the same results as I did after graduating from 'Warbird School"
As Mike told me,"Once you've got it you'll wonder how you ever landed any other way" And he was right, I run the same program through the brain with every warbird with the same results, from the 1200 3s Spitty to the F7F Tigercat.
Works like a charm.

Grossman56

[e4dragongunner]

Stellar Report!!!!! :-) Love it!

[Grossman56]

Thanks E4, that's what we're all about in the Squawk!!


Grossman56

[WAY BAD]

Tanks for the tips on rolling Grossman!

What kind of expo are you guys liking with this plane. I normally don't run any, but I'm feeling this bird needs a little.

[Grossman56]

I don't own this particular plane, but the rule of thumb as I understand it, is to start with 30% and adjust from there.

Grossman56

[e4dragongunner]

I have a best practice question.... With the proper amount of expo i.e. 30% you can run higher throws and do away with dual rates?
More than a true or false question. May not work for every application but thought I would pick your brains! :-)

Thanks in advance guys!

Water is warm here at the squawk....

[OV10]

I have a best practice question.... With the proper amount of expo i.e. 30% you can run higher throws and do away with dual rates?
More than a true or false question. May not work for every application but thought I would pick your brains! :-)

Thanks in advance guys!

Water is warm here at the squawk....

Here goes e4 without the technical dribble, I hope I can get the idea across ;)
Expo reduces the sensitivity in the null of the gimball of the control stick. The higher the percentage of expo the more the stick can be moved before it hits the full linear movement.
This is why it is called expo, the early stick movements are an exponential rate of the full linear travel of the stick.
As such the idea of running higher throws and doing away with dual rates is a false assumption because when you hit the full throw of the stick you will still have the throws of whatever setting you elected.

[e4dragongunner]

ok.... I am going to read and re-read this and let it sink in, I think you have something here, but need to let it congeal in the brain pan!
Thanks OV10

[AkumaZeto]

This plane needs all the throw it can get on the ailerons

[Dewey H Lee]

Thats true on the ailerons. All the others seem fine. That wide wing and small aileron is not a good combination for a snappy roll at all. I run 30 percent and throws on a 3 position switch with my ailerons set as high in the radio it can get plus i drop down one hole on the control arm on ailerons on all 3 positions. I always like to fly with choices. Sometimes you might not feel as good as you did the fay before and your flying at 100 percent. Plus i use 2 different rates when takeing of and flying as well as landing.