Official RotorScale B222 Shadow Black 450 Size Helicopter Discussion Thread

[Cyclone 7]

I've often thought that preassembled/RTF helis should be labelled with a cautionary 'Preassembled for guidance purposes only ' :)

[F106DeltaDart]

Hi all! New member here. I've been flying rc helis off and on for 10 years, so not a newbie. I have collective pitch helis up to 700 size - mostly Blade and Align. But I've been away from the hobby for a little while, so I'll have to be retrained :). I got the RotorScale B222 a few weeks ago and will start setting it up this weekend. I read this thread and fully agree about taking the mechanics out and rebuilding. I've been bitten by that before.

I have a few questions. Thanks in advance for any help you can provide!
- Should I use governor or throttle curves? Some esc's seem to work better one way or the other. I have mostly Kontronic esc's in my Align helis, and they work great with governor. What about the Hobbywing Platinum Pro 40A?
- What programmer works well with this esc? There seem to be several Hobbywing programmers available.
- What are the best settings for the esc?
- I bought the FC that Motion has in stock and has in the link on their B222 product page - Tarot ZYXS2. Is this a good FC for the B222?
- What are the best settings for the FC?

It will be great getting back into helis. I've always been attracted to scale helis, but never took the leap. After I get this beautiful B222 flying, I'll be opening up the Roban 800 size EC-135 that also jut got delivered. Yikes!
Thanks much!
Ken

Welcome to the Forum! I hope to try out 2 of the hobbywing programmers, see if I can get them to work with the ESC this weekend. So far, I've just used a manual throttle curve for expedience. For the FC, take a look at what ridgerunner is using on the AS350: https://www.hobbysquawk.com/forum/rc...n-thread/page2. I haven't used the Tarot, but it looks like his bird is flying quite well on it.

As for the EC-135, I highly suggest looking at the thread over on ScaleRCHelis.com. There is lots of good info there on what's needed to get the fenestron dialed in and tail servo choice. Definitely worth the read before flying.

[ridgerunner]

First note that the ESC that is supplied with the Rotorscale helis, is an older version of the HW 40A Platinum series (it is not the most recent V4). The manual currently on MotionRC's support page (Platinum25A40AV4.pdf) is actually the wrong one - it is for the V4. I located and downloaded the correct HW-40A manual (HW-01-PL.pdf) and have attached it to this post. Hopefully, one of the MRC guys will put this correct one on their support page.

- Should I use governor or throttle curves? Some esc's seem to work better one way or the other. I have mostly Kontronic esc's in my Align helis, and they work great with governor. What about the Hobbywing Platinum Pro 40A?

I'm currently using V throttle curves with the default ESC settings. I tried briefly, but was unable to get the governor mode to work - (but this could be pilot error on my part - will look into this more deeply later.)

- What programmer works well with this esc? There seem to be several Hobbywing programmers available.

Here's the one that is working for me:

Multifunction LCD Professional Program Box

- What are the best settings for the esc?

Not sure! (but the default settings seemed to work just fine - nothing overheated and my AS-350 had plenty of power). After my three maiden flights yesterday, I have since modified a couple settings on my ESC, (the timing and PWM freq), but I need the rain to stop to test these out. (The specs I found for the Gartt HF-450L 1800kV motor recommends using timing of 5° and PWM of 8kHz, but the HW40 defaults to 15° and 12kHz.) I also changed the START MODE parameter 5 from "Soft" to "very soft". (According to the manual, "soft" gives a 3 second spoolup time and "very soft" provides 8 seconds.)

- I bought the FC that Motion has in stock and has in the link on their B222 product page - Tarot ZYXS2. Is this a good FC for the B222?

Its working well for me so far (see the Rotorscale AS-350 thread where I've posted a couple vids from my maiden day yesterday).

- What are the best settings for the FC?

Good question. I had success using all the default settings on the main "BASIC" page of the ZYX-S2 Assistant software page and a tail gain of +30 (heading hold). Note that MotionRC had a setup vid for the ZYX-S2 but they (responsibly) took it down after I told them it had some bad recommendations. I think they are probably working on making an improved version. For more on how this came about, check out the last few pages of the thread for the Rotorscale UH-1A.

In the meantime, I found the following videos to be both in-depth and very helpful. Although Part 4 covers setting up the earlier version of the ZYX hardware and software, I found that much of what he discusses applies to the ZYX-S2. His five part: "Flybarless Conversion" series covers a lot of ground on the proper setup of a 450 heli. Highly recommended! Here are links to all five parts:

HK-450GT Flybarless Conversion - pt 1 - Introduction
HK-450GT Flybarless Conversion - pt 2 - Building The RJX Clone Head
HK-450GT Flybarless Conversion - pt 3 - Installing The Servos FBL Rotor Head and Gyro
HK-450GT Flybarless Conversion - pt 4 - Radio and Software Setup
HK-450GT Flybarless Conversion - pt 5 - Final Setup

Hope this helps! :)

[kenmalecki]

Thanks very much for all the help everyone! That info will get me going.

I also have a another question - What blade pitches are people using for collective and cyclic? No negative collective pitch required for scale, right? Thanks

[ridgerunner]

... - What blade pitches are people using for collective and cyclic? No negative collective pitch required for scale, right? Thanks

I setup +/-12° collective and +/- 10° cyclic on my AS-350 - but I'm flying more than just scale. Note that I use a spring-centered throttle/CP gimbal and always setup 0° at center stick.
But this is a pilot preference kind of thing, no?

I've found that a largish collective range is particularly handy when flying at low headspeed, where the blade needs more AOA to generate sufficient lift. Note that the airframe on these Rotorscale helis, (a Trex Sport V1 clone with a Tarot FBL head), allows for a rather large collective range (i.e. +/- 16°). Here are the ZYX-S2 travel limits I am currently using to achieve +/-12 on collective and +/- 10° cyclic:



Note that the rudder limits are for a non-stock KST DS215 servo with the servo linkage ball mounted at an 8mm radius from the center of the servo arm. These ZYX-S2 tail setup values will vary with other tail servo configurations. (The Tail LimitA and LimitB travel values are set as high as possible - just up to the point of almost binding.)

[kenmalecki]

Thanks very much ridgerunner! Great info. I started rebuilding the B222, and will continue this week.

[ridgerunner]

First note that the ESC that is supplied with the Rotorscale helis, is an older version of the HW 40A Platinum series (it is not the most recent V4). The manual currently on MotionRC's support page (Platinum25A40AV4.pdf) is actually the wrong one - it is for the V4. I located and downloaded the correct HW-40A manual (HW-01-PL.pdf) and have attached it to this post. Hopefully, one of the MRC guys will put this correct one on their support page....

I found a more recent version of the correct ESC manual. See the file: (HW-01-PL-090316.1.pdf) attached to: this post over on the AS-350 thread.

EDIT: MotionRC has updated their support page download to the correct manual version. :Cool:

[ridgerunner]

Maidened my Rotorscale B222 Shadow Black Airwolf 450 today. Here are flights #1 and #3... (Disclaimer: kinda boring - wasn't pushing it, but I did go inverted a few times and did some highish speed passes.)

Have not hooked up the gear servo yet - thats next on the initial flights plan.

So far am liking these Rotorscale 450s from MotionRC! :)

I am also becoming more impressed with the el-cheapo Tarot ZYX-S2 FBL - seems to work just fine even in the undoubtedly high vibration environment of these scale jobs. :Cool:

[ridgerunner]

Got the landing gear hooked up on my Rotorscale 450 B222. A beautiful morning for some sport flying here in Central Utah!

She's flying pretty sweet!

[RotorHead19]

How do you go about tightening the belt? In order to do this the tail assembly has to be on right? If this is the case then its in the fuselage, can you access the tail boom block screws through the fuselage somehow?
Thanks.

[ridgerunner]

The mechanics must be removed from the fuse in order to easily adjust belt tension.

[RotorHead19]

The mechanics must be removed from the fuse in order to easily adjust belt tension.

So there is enough slack in the belt to get it back on after putting it in the fuse and reassembling the tail housing? Sorry first scale heli, just trying to make sense of this process If I tried to put the belt on my Trex 470L with the tension set already I would have to pry it on with a screwdriver with it going on at the set tension, you must have to stretch the belt over the tail shaft pulley then. I will be getting my heli this Friday, I actually got the AS 350 but I figured the mechanics are the same. The B222 will be my next as soon as there back in stock. Hopefully soon....:Confused:

[ridgerunner]

To remove and install the fuselage, the right half of the tail mechanics (including the pulley and tailshaft) must first be removed. The belt is slack as fuse goes on and off. With the fuse off, the tail needs to be partially reassembled in order to set belt tension.

[RotorHead19]

To remove and install the fuselage, the right half of the tail mechanics (including the pulley and tailshaft) must first be removed. The belt is slack as fuse goes on and off. With the fuse off, the tail needs to be partially reassembled in order to set belt tension.

Ok thanks, I am sure I will better understand it when I see it, I appreciate your help. I am really surprised that scale helis are not more popular these days, I have been looking for the last couple of years for a 450 sized scale heli, and Roban and Rc Aerodyne are always out of stock or not available, seems 10 years ago they were popular and now they have almost become non existent. I am really thankful Motion has taken the lead with these and are offering them. I really hope they get there manufacturer issues ironed out and can start getting everything they need to make this easily available. I really enjoyed your videos and details on this heli and the AS 350 thanks for posting!!!!:Cool:

[F106DeltaDart]

A few photos from flying the Airwolf this evening. Really a pleasure to fly on a nice calm evening.

[F106DeltaDart]

After around a year of flying my Airwolf, I started having issues with the belt constantly loosening. I tried a few things to stop it, including adding tape shims, which helped for a bit more, but was still temporary. I decided to switch out the mechanics for a Tarot 450 pro to get a TT tail, Upgraded to a HW V4 60A ESC, and also upgraded the tail servo to a BK3002. I put a few flights on it Friday in some gusty winds and tail hold was much improved. Will be nice to have it back as a regular weekend flier.

[ridgerunner]

After around a year of flying my Airwolf, I started having issues with the belt constantly loosening. ...

On mine, I'm going to mount an extra aluminum rudder servo mount onto the boom and cinch it down butted up against the plastic tail boom mount. I'm thinking that this should prevent the boom from slipping forward into the boom mount.

Regarding the Tarot 450 Pro frame - I assume the skids hole pattern differs from the stock Sport V1 frame. Just curious - How did you modify the fuse to mount the mechanics? New holes?

[F106DeltaDart]

On mine, I'm going to mount an extra aluminum rudder servo mount onto the boom and cinch it down butted up against the plastic tail boom mount. I'm thinking that this should prevent the boom from slipping forward into the boom mount.

Regarding the Tarot 450 Pro frame - I assume the skids hole pattern differs from the stock Sport V1 frame. Just curious - How did you modify the fuse to mount the mechanics? New holes?

It is significantly different in its skid mounting, the holes are centered and have different spacing. I used those central skid mounting screws to bolt on the plastic lower tray from the Sport V1 mechs as a sort of adapter plate.

[ridgerunner]

Clever solution!

(The B222 and AS350 have moved up in line on my workbench "INBOX" - need to resurrect these from the dead!)

[Porkster]

Morning all, how exciting, I’ve just got an email to say these are back in stock in the EU store (not sure they were ever in stock! not that it matters) so I’ve clicked the big buy it button and hopefully it’s on its way at last.
I’ve had a quick read through the posts but needless to say I’ll go through it in more detail once mine arrives and I start setting it up.
really looking forward to it and have always wanted a scale heli having only had pod boom styles before.