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HELP!! With Roban 700 Apache Tail

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  • #81
    Are you sure you don't have something to tight somewhere?? when you disconnect the short pushrod at the tail ball link, move it by hand, how does it feel?? should be no resistance at all and nice and smooth, did you check the long pushrod for the same smoothness and the 45 degree bell crank making sure its free to move? I had the same problem on my two blade 800 size Hughes 500, all three would tail wag so I ended up making my own two blade tail rotor and problem solved, I couldn't get the stock two blade to work at all no matter what settings I tried on my Microbeast, now on my Apache, which is the same as yours, I've had no problems with the cascading tail rotor or the stock tail rotor, maybe go back to the stock tail rotor 4 blade and see what it does?? Also trying lowering that ball on the servo horn, that looks like way to much throw, you don't need that much, at least I don't on mine and it has a whole bunch of flights on it with no issues.

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    • #82
      Hi DC. I will check all of those things. My dad and I have noticed that there seems to be a lot of “slop” in the gearing. From the rotor all the way through to the frame. I have wondered if this is the cause but I see no way of fixing it. It’s design issue. I have honestly figured everyone has this. I will post a short vid of what I’m seeing.

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      • #83
        Just an observation….those tail gears look dry in the pics. Could just be the resolution, or my eyes. Some of the drive train slop can be eliminated by shimming the front and rear bevel gears, if found to have too much end play. The remainder is just the clearances between the torque shafts’ splines and the bevel gears’ splines and will always be there unless you shorten the torque tubes. Don’t think a normal amount of gear slop is causing your drift issue, ‘tho. Does your headspeed seem steady on all your stick inputs?

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        • #84
          Another thought…is your transmitter well used? Those stick potentiometers do shift over time and Ikons seem very sensitive to the Tx neutral stick positions. Might try going to the “advanced” menu, then under “setup” look for “tail stick deadband”. I think the default setting is 3. Try increasing that a little. Click image for larger version

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          • #85
            PawPaw is right, gear slop is normal, 6 gears and two drive shafts all the way back to the tail, your going to have slop, all mine do and the Apache is the worst, even after shimming them, my Apache is rock solid when flying and hovering even with the slop. I thought the gears looked a little dry too?

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            • #86
              Are you running an older Ikon or Ikon2 ?
              Either way there is a pre-comp setting under advanced/setup, can be adjusted for all 3 flight modes
              birdman

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              • #87
                Click image for larger version

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ID:	325372 Hi guys. Thank you for the responses. The gears do you still have grease on them although I could probably add some. I will add a little bit to them. But I don’t think that this is causing my issue. I am using the iKon 2 Bluetooth. I don’t think there is a transmitter issue, as far as the dead band goes, because I have the exact same ikon unit in a goblin 570 and it flies beautifully. Tail is rocksolid. So I took some time today and went through my tail set up again making sure everything was correct. And I moved the servo connector in one hole. Although to do this I had to flip the ball around to the other side of the servo horn which causes the guide wire to flex down a bit. But everything seems to still be very smooth from the servo to the tail rotor as far as the control goes. I have not flown it yet after moving the horn in but I should be able to do this tomorrow.
                I am also just wondering about the physical placement of the tell servo. And the angle that I have it mounted at. The instructions don’t give you any help concerning this. Wondering if any of you guys have photos of your set up.

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                • #88
                  I am quite confident that this is going to be some simple solution. Some sort of programming issue in my radio or the icon that is not right. I’m pretty sure the mechanical set up is good. But I could be wrong. I will try to get someone to help me video what is happening well I hover it.

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                  • #89
                    As mentioned earlier, I also have 2 of the Ikon 2 BTs…..1 of them is rock solid and the other has never left the ground. I have spent many hours researching and diagnosing the tail servo drift issue on it and have only one thing left to try….switching from the installed CC Talon 120 ESC to a Hobbywing Platinum Pro. If that does not correct the issue then I will just accept it is a bad unit from the factory. It does happen, I guess.

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                    • #90
                      Paw paw. I guess I have not really considered that it could be a bad unit. I guess it might be worth purchasing another just to see.

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                      • #91
                        In my case, the Ikon 2’s problem is apparent immediately after power up, unlike yours. There are many rabbit holes to explore on your setup before the sun sets. I just wanted to point out that just because one Ikon 2 is good in a different heli does not guarantee this Ikon 2 will be good also. That was in reference to the Tx stick center post.

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                        • #92
                          Question for you guys. I bought the two ikon units that I am using used. They did not come with the mounting tape. So I used some mounting tape that I had which is very firm. I used this tape in my goblin 570 and as I said it seems to fly beautifully. Tail is rocksolid. I used the same tape on the Apache. But could it be that a little thicker tape might help keep out any vibrations that might be passing through to the tail?
                          I personally don’t think this has anything to do with it. But I guess I am just grasping at straws. I’m about to purchase another fabulous unit just to see if I have a bad one.

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                          • #93
                            Will post yet again please look at these settings
                            Click image for larger version

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                            • #94
                              Hi bird man. Thank you for your post. I don’t recall seeing that before. I may have missed it. I will take a look at this as soon as I can.

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                              • #95
                                I THINK I FIGURED IT OUT!!!!!!!!!!! And, as I have previously stated, I knew it was going to be something simple in my setup or programing. So just sit back, get you favorite beverage, and listen to the tale of my tail.
                                So two and a half years ago I purchased this kit from Motion RC. And a gentlemen at MRC helped me with my purchase and was very kind enough to help me set up my transmitter settings and esc and flybarless unit. I had purchased the bavarion demon. It had been years since I had set up a new heli and gyro so i just did as directed. And in setting up the tail, he walked me through the whole setup from start to finish, it had me set my tail pitch to zero but then to turn the ball link to add in a little bit of right rudder!!!
                                I remembered this yesterday and took that out and whalah! she holds like a champ with no drift.
                                I totally forgot about this but to be truthful I remember having to do this with some of the old old gyros years ago. So I did not think anything of it. Now I dont know if that was true protocol for setting up a BVD or not but I think i have finally solved this issue. Now I can finally get on with fine tuning the flying. I think I have one blade slightly out of track . Flies fine but I can see it. Have no idea how to track a four blade head.
                                Anyway, I want to thank all of you who chimed in here to try and help me figure this out. I will be back with other issues. I am SO EXCITED after two years to finally go out and start flying this thing. I have the fuselage about 95% done so hopefully in a few more months I will have install pics for you guys. You will love the paint scheme.

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                                • #96
                                  Hi Aces, that should have made zero difference......In my experience anyways....Gyro compensates for it.... Let us know if things change
                                  Birdman

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                                  • #97
                                    Originally posted by Aces View Post
                                    I THINK I FIGURED IT OUT!!!!!!!!!!! And, as I have previously stated, I knew it was going to be something simple in my setup or programing. So just sit back, get you favorite beverage, and listen to the tale of my tail.
                                    So two and a half years ago I purchased this kit from Motion RC. And a gentlemen at MRC helped me with my purchase and was very kind enough to help me set up my transmitter settings and esc and flybarless unit. I had purchased the bavarion demon. It had been years since I had set up a new heli and gyro so i just did as directed. And in setting up the tail, he walked me through the whole setup from start to finish, it had me set my tail pitch to zero but then to turn the ball link to add in a little bit of right rudder!!!
                                    I remembered this yesterday and took that out and whalah! she holds like a champ with no drift.
                                    I totally forgot about this but to be truthful I remember having to do this with some of the old old gyros years ago. So I did not think anything of it. Now I dont know if that was true protocol for setting up a BVD or not but I think i have finally solved this issue. Now I can finally get on with fine tuning the flying. I think I have one blade slightly out of track . Flies fine but I can see it. Have no idea how to track a four blade head.
                                    Anyway, I want to thank all of you who chimed in here to try and help me figure this out. I will be back with other issues. I am SO EXCITED after two years to finally go out and start flying this thing. I have the fuselage about 95% done so hopefully in a few more months I will have install pics for you guys. You will love the paint scheme.
                                    Well, maybe you got it, I don't undrstand the right rudder input when they are left hand rotation and want to spin right anyway, looks like more right input would be worse, I don't know anything about BVD gyros so I can't say much, on my Apache, it has a Microbeast and I have it set with just a slight left input to counter act the left hand rotation, works great for me, I still don't get why this would solve your problem, but hey, I'm no expert.....

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                                    • #98
                                      Hello guys. Sorry I have been away. Work has kept me very busy. DC, I think I made a mistake with my direction. I believe you are right. But whichever way it was, and however simple it seems, when I zeroed out my pitch on the thing the gyro seemed to work fine. I did a couple of hover flights and then got busy with family and business stuff. THEN, I went out to the field just two days ago now to do some real flying with this thing and tweek my settings. BUT....I crashed!!!!!!. I know that everyone says "I didnt dumb thumb it" but I am 99.9% sure that I did not dumb thumb it. I had just taken off and was tail in hovering when it started to drift and I could not bring it back. Im a fairly accomplished 3D pilot and comfortable with all orientations. So I am pretty confident that something failed control wise. I flew my goblin right after so I dont think it was a transmitter issue. The scary part at this point is that I dont know what happend. I had power to the motor so something happened with the receiver im guessing. Havent been able to test the receiver yet.
                                      Anyway, Fortunately it was not too bad. Both blade sets and a boom and a few other various parts are needed but I do not have the funds. I will shelve this project until next year sometime. Then main problem is that MRC is basically out of everything. And there is one part I dont think I can replace without purchasing a whole new head. THere is a triangular metal piece that screws onto the main blade grips and then there is a "lever" that bolts to that and then attaches to the swash. MRC carries the lever but not the little triangular piece. So even if they ever get the other piece in stock I dont know that I will ever be able to get the other piece. According to Ed at MRC the only way to get that piece is the purchase another head!!
                                      So if anyone has any tail booms, blades, or heads laying around that you want to part with I will just have to save up for a new head and all the other pieces.
                                      Anyway, Its not a matter of IF right? Just a matter of WHEN.
                                      Happy flying to you guys.

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