tried to register with FAA

[Flygirl]

RE: tried to register with FAA

Boy, this is a bummer for those of us that live near DC and are under the No Fly Zone around DC.... Read the last line in little print. I mean when will there ever be a time when global political environment will be better...? I don't see it happening anytime soon.

A FAA NOTAM/TFR has been issued for the Baltimore, Maryland and the surrounding areas beginning at 5:30p EST on Thursday, 01/28, and continuing until 9:30p EST on Thursday, 01/28. The TFR is issued for security purposes to cover VIP movement in this area. Outdoor radio control model aircraft operations are prohibited within the 30nm circle for the specific times listed below. Control Line and Free Flight modelers should use discretion when operating within the TFR. Please note that TFRs are subject to change with very short notice. Check back often for the most current NOTAM/TFR information. Timely alerts are also available on the web or on your cell phone at: Twitter.com/amagov.

See the link to the TFR below for more detailed information regarding the restrictions:

Map View of the Affected Area

Area 1 (01/28, 5:30p – 01/28, 9:30p EST)
(30nm radius from Latitude: 39º16'44"N, Longitude: 76º38'30"W)
Area 1 (01/28, 5:30p – 01/28, 9:30p EST)
(9nm radius from Latitude: 39º16'44"N, Longitude: 76º38'30"W)
TFR - 5/6884

Regards

Government Relations Support Team


………………………………………


In a security zone (Temporary Flight Restriction – TFR) those monitoring the airspace must be able to tell friend from foe and in the case of unmanned aircraft there currently is no definitive way of making this distinction. It is also necessary to clear the security zone as much as possible to allow intercept forces to transit safely through the airspace. As such, the current procedure is to ground all nonessential air operations within the TFR. This includes unmanned aircraft, radio control model aircraft and all other aero sport activity.
AMA is currently working with FAA’s Special Operations Security division along with the National Aeronautic Association (NAA) and the other sport aviation groups in an effort to obtain relief for our members and the aero sport community in general.
In this effort, AMA achieved a small victory by gaining clarification regarding the intent of the restrictions. Previously the NOTAMs spoke to prohibiting “model aircraft” operations within the TFR. This left unclear whether this included control line and free flight activities. AMA sought clarification from the FAA Special Operations Security Center (SOSC) and was able to get this issue resolved. The language in TFRs now refers to “radio control model aircraft”, a small concession but a step in the right direction. AMA has also been successful in obtaining waivers for MA activities when short notice TFRs conflict with high-profile events.
Unfortunately, when it comes to the federal government and national security the wheels turn very slowly. AMA suspects it may be some time before we see any significant relief, and we may not see any real change until there is a change for the better in the global political environment.

[PappaBear]

RE: tried to register with FAA

I hear you Konrad about the FAA and it's agenda all the way back 35 years ago but they really aren't whom I'm concerned about.
Like Crunch just pointed out, we at a national level are going to have uninformed law enforcement as well as politicians who see only the slanted views publicized by the uneducated media and then these same public servants get all nervous and jerky about all this hyped up stuff on the evening news. Our local CBS news had a little 4 minute report about this upcoming forum I mentioned and reported the County Executive of the legislators saying they were aware of 50 registered drones in the county. REALLY...... that FAA data base is not accessible by local government agency's. Again more misinformation by politicians in order to serve what ever agenda. I think our concerns as a modeling community is not with the FAA but more with the local level of governance. As I said earlier, a bullet was dodged just 150 mi NE of me in Albany but I don't believe for one moment that it won't happen in another town or city in the near future........which one of you could be next?? (I know Lauren is living in the crush of the DC expanded zone...so sad)
If you love the child in you that comes out from flying your model, then embrace that passion by educating the uninformed.
Some of you may think that I'm on a soapbox, maybe yeah, but that's what happens when you survive 5 different cancers and have rediscovered the boy in myself with my passion for RC again and THEY aren't taking that away from me.
Best regards,  

Well said Charlie.

Martin.

[OV10]

RE: tried to register with FAA

Appreciate the compliment Martin

[Flygirl]

RE: tried to register with FAA

Appreciate the compliment Martin

Charlie.... How did the meeting go?

[OV10]

RE: tried to register with FAA

Hello Lauren,
Glad you asked. Approx 75 people attended whereas 10% was from our club. The Director of the Broome County Dept of Aviation who was task by the county legislators to sponsor a plan to encompass RC model safety into the fold of the local airspace was actually a breath of fresh air so to speak.
During the question/answer period I stood up and introduced myself as the clubs VP and asked several rather pointed inquiries. In summary is how I received his comments - He is well aware of all the advantages(sciences, etc) that modeling provides to the younger generation and actually wants to embrace the newer technologies versus shunning them by shutting down things like Albany tried to do but ultimately failed to do because of AMA membership response. He was well aware of the Albany debacle an indicated that he didn't want that activity to occur in this area by his involvement in educating our local legislators. He agreed that a lot of the misinformation is media naivety and wants to help correct that. He even fessed up when asked point blank about where the news media got the "drone user" registration count. It was a guessed number that he provided to them for their advertising spiel for the meeting and apologized for the misdirection. One of the evening news cameras was there and interviewed a lady before the forum got started and she later in the meeting disclosed during the question period that she had no clue about the "drone" activity so you can imagine what that report will sound like. The news dude left right after taking that interview, go figure, he got his hype. The director also indicated that in order for us hobbyist to survive the onslaught of misrepresentation that we are going to have to be more involved in policing our own rogues by turning in those that are observed as not operating responsibly. I was rather impressed with his knowledgeable support of the RC community that I offered and he accepted my support from the private sector to assist him in his task if needed of showing our local governance that the RC modeling community is not a threat to our local airspace.
So I came away with a lot better mind set than I walked in there with.
Have I told you how badly I feel for you and your fellow pilots down there in the Balt/DC area for your flying restrictions. Maybe you need to come back to your home town where we fly the friendlier skies - LOL
Best regards

[Konrad]

RE: tried to register with FAA

I’m sorry to say but this post may start to look like a LTUP post that we dread on that despicable forum site. If the moderator thinks this needs to be sanctioned I understand. But it is given as an informational post with my take on things.

http://www.rcgroups.com/life-the-universe-and-politics-22/

Fly Girl, that is the problem with security experts they can dream up all sorts of scenarios, but they don’t know how to accurately access probability from possibility.
Or I fear that the restricted airspace is a tacit admission that with all the resources we spend, on the congressional, military industrial complex, that we as a nation can’t protect our VIPs from a $200 missile/rocket, etc. Those restriction like taxes will not go away once implemented. That cat is out of the bag on this one.

What we are seeing with the FAA and “drones” is a play for power and money, “"Safety" is just a red hearing for this activity!

While in 1981 the FAA was aware of the potential for RC aircraft causing damage to man carrying aircraft. The risk was thought so low as to causing loss of life and the benefit in promoting aviation was so great that our toy models were given a hands off approach. The FAA had a dual mandate to both promote and regulate aviation. So far so good, then we the modeling community pushed this loss of life issue a bit when we moved away from the FAI weight limits on models to the 55 lb. limits for giant models.

As a result of the May, 1996 ValueJet crash, in which the NTSB gave a scathing report on the FAA to congress, the FAA is stripped of its dual mandate.
The FAA’s own historical account

https://www.faa.gov/about/media/b-chron.pdf

On Oct 9, the President signed the Federal Aviation Reauthorization Act of 1996 (P.L. 104-264) , which contained further appropriations, increased the agency’s share of Trust Fund monies from 70 to 72.5 percent, and provided two-year funding for the Airport Improvement Program. The legislation established a National Civil Aviation Review Commission to report to Congress on the state of aviation safety and on providing long-term funding for the agency. The law contained provisions aimed at expanding FAA’s financial accountability and increasing its autonomy within DOT. It directed the establishment of a Federal Aviation Management Advisory Council composed of 15 members serving 3- year terms, with one member designated by DOT, one by the Defense Department, and 13 by the President with Senatorial approval. The Council was to advise the FAA Administrator and function as an oversight resource for management policy, spending, and regulatory matters. To address public perceptions about

FAA’s “dual mission,” the law specified safety as the agency’s highest priority. FAA remained responsible for encouraging and developing civil aeronautics, but references to a promotional role were eliminated from its mandate.



So the FAA has only had concerns from a statutory perspective in regulating our model for 20 years not 35 years.

As a result of the FAA appearing to be over zealous in their regulating aviation congress added restrictions to the FAA in the 2012 appropriation bill saying in effect keep your hands off of models. This has resulted in conflicting statutes that no federal administrator wants. So in a power play with congress the FAA is regulating ‘us' the flier stating that we must register with the FAA and to show that we have, the models must carry the registration number. The FAA wants the judiciary or congress to clean up this mess. Nobody really has an issue with the $5 fee. It is what the $5 fee represents that we all have issues with. The FAA really doesn’t want to play with our toys.

On the money side of things we have a Airplane Owners Association and Amazon giving money to congress to further their agendas. Many in the AOA are able to pay for their Cessna 170’s and flight time by flying the power grid. That is inspection of power lines and pipe lines in remote locations. These pilots are seeing their easy money threatened by the “drone”. The drone can perform these tasks faster cheaper and more accurately than the use of a maned aircraft. Amazon sees that they would have a competitive edge if they could control and restrict airspace for their delivery “drones". So until we have financial reform in our election process this will be the pressure we are dealing with in congress.

All the talk about privacy and air space right and safety have all been addressed years ago. In the 20’s or 30's the airspace above your property was given to the federal government starting above 80 feet. This was to allow airlines the legal right to over fly your property. The expectation of any privacy in open areas was taken away with the police helicopter being allowed to peer over fences. (In the summertime the flight crews for the Coast Guard and Local Police call these flights Bikini Patrols! I was shocked at how many of these galls would wave at us on patrol with more than just their hands as we over flew them.) So there are already enough rules on the books to address property right, privacy concerns and safety with legal liability laws. So what is the issue with the local governments?

The agendas with local government is also about money. You might recall that in Ferguson Missouri the local police got the FAA to issue a no fly zone over the public unrest after the police shot and killed a youth. Claiming they needed "TO PROVIDE A SAFE ENVIRONMENT FOR LAW ENFORCEMENT ACTIVITIES”. That was code to keep cameras out from filming potential police violation of civil rights.

http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2014/11/24/3596663/ferguson-no-fly-zone-2/

You might recall that the police might have gotten away with the Rodney King beating had it not been for the video from a concerned citizen. Then there are the shooting of unarmed black men recently caught on cell phones. Every mayor is scared that their police force will bankrupt the city. Then there is the threat that a citizen might catch a road crew sleeping behind a fence. Or worse a contributor to the mayoral election dumping pollutant into the lakes and rivers. Every elected official fears the citizenry and rightfully so. Our founding father feared the state more than the common criminal and as a result gave us some powers to contain them, the elected officials that is. The Drone agenda at the local level is to keep you from seeing what is really going on and having it on film (video up on You-Tube).

We need to thank the quad copter and the FAA for giving us this power. The quad copter for the technical power to allow surveillance of the police state. And the FAA for saying the local authorities have no jurisdiction over the air space.

Whenever dealing with the government and things don’t make sense I like to recall the words of “Deep Throat” (AKA Mark Felt) “Follow the money!”. This has served me well dealing with the bureaucrats.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Felt

OV10, Glad you had a positive response at the meeting. Now somebody needs to hold the paper/press accountable for poor reporting (along with the freedom of the press comes responsibility of the press). A call to the editors and/or a letter to the editors should be made by the group of fliers you represent as VP of the club. I will say that as president of a few 200 plus member clubs the local governments knew of our position even if we carried no clout (money).

Sincerely,
Konrad

P.S.
3/4 of a million "drones" sold in the last year? Who is tabulating that? I know of no requirement to report "drone" sales.

[OV10]

RE: tried to register with FAA

Konrad - very interesting read. Help me out with that LTUP acronym, don't have the foggiest on that one.

[Konrad]

RE: tried to register with FAA

"Life The Universe and Politics" it is a forum category found at the despicable site, RCG.
http://www.rcgroups.com/life-the-universe-and-politics-22/

I'm thrilled you don't know the acronym! It should help MotionRC realize that they shouldn't place too much of their ad monies with that site.

All the best,
Konrad

[Flygirl]

RE: tried to register with FAA

Hello Lauren,
Glad you asked. Approx 75 people attended whereas 10% was from our club. The Director of the Broome County Dept of Aviation who was task by the county legislators to sponsor a plan to encompass RC model safety into the fold of the local airspace was actually a breath of fresh air so to speak.
During the question/answer period I stood up and introduced myself as the clubs VP and asked several rather pointed inquiries. In summary is how I received his comments - He is well aware of all the advantages(sciences, etc) that modeling provides to the younger generation and actually wants to embrace the newer technologies versus shunning them by shutting down things like Albany tried to do but ultimately failed to do because of AMA membership response. He was well aware of the Albany debacle an indicated that he didn't want that activity to occur in this area by his involvement in educating our local legislators. He agreed that a lot of the misinformation is media naivety and wants to help correct that. He even fessed up when asked point blank about where the news media got the "drone user" registration count. It was a guessed number that he provided to them for their advertising spiel for the meeting and apologized for the misdirection. One of the evening news cameras was there and interviewed a lady before the forum got started and she later in the meeting disclosed during the question period that she had no clue about the "drone" activity so you can imagine what that report will sound like. The news dude left right after taking that interview, go figure, he got his hype. The director also indicated that in order for us hobbyist to survive the onslaught of misrepresentation that we are going to have to be more involved in policing our own rogues by turning in those that are observed as not operating responsibly. I was rather impressed with his knowledgeable support of the RC community that I offered and he accepted my support from the private sector to assist him in his task if needed of showing our local governance that the RC modeling community is not a threat to our local airspace.
So I came away with a lot better mind set than I walked in there with.
Have I told you how badly I feel for you and your fellow pilots down there in the Balt/DC area for your flying restrictions. Maybe you need to come back to your home town where we fly the friendlier skies - LOL
Best regards

Charlie, thank you thank you thank you for going! It sounds to me like the Southern Tier politicians are smarter than the Albany ones! Who was the TV crew? WNBF? They should have stayed. Not exactly the best way to do journalism... Anyways, it makes me happy that they want to work with us.

I told you I'm retiring right? So I will be at the lake a LOT this summer. As you know, the lake is round and flying circles even if it's off the water gets boring. LOL So, I was thinking of maybe joining your club so I could fly while I'm at the lake. So, we may end up being in the same club. :)

Thanks again Charlie!

[OV10]

RE: tried to register with FAA

Lauren,
It was WBNG TV 12 and yes another one of their poorer journalistic actions, WNBF is the radio station.
Good deal on the upcoming retirement. I am also the membership chairperson of the club so if you decide that you want a place to bore holes in the clouds in the Triple Cities, I can easily get you hooked up with becoming a member. You'd luv our layout, we own 100 acres on top of the hill just 4 miles west of Endicott with 2 intersecting runways that basically go w/e and n/s. When your back in the area just give me call and if you've misplaced the number just PM me on the Squawk. Look forward to showing you our airfield come summer.

[Flygirl]

RE: tried to register with FAA

Konrad, ya know there was a time when I was naieve to all that is going on behind the scenes but I think you are right on the money, no pun intended. I used to think it was only about safety and not about money and jobs but I have two friends who are both involved in the sUAS industry. One fellow makes fixed wing drones, pretty big ones at least by our standards, and the other owns one of the companies that the FAA has certified to do business. http://elevatedelement.com/ Mike, the one who builds drones, believes it is totally about jobs and money going from full size aircraft companies to sUAS. When he sells an aircraft Cessna or Piper have lost a sale. When Terry, my friend who owns Elevated Element does a mapping job, a pilot or company has lost money. Mikes sUAS and Terry's use of multirotors and fixed wing sUAS are cheaper and can do the same job a full sized aircraft can do. So yes, I believe that full sized aircraft manufacturers and pilots are pushing an agenda very very hard. In many respects I don't blame them... It is a threat to their livelihood.

As for the no fly zone and that last sentence about global political environment, I think they are really feeling threatened by someone flying a fixed wing sUAS at one of the government buildings especially after that kook mailman flew his gyrocopter on to the lawn of the Capitol. It's not so bad for me because I am only a couple of miles away from the edge of the no fly zone so I only have maybe a 30 minute drive to get out from under it but I really feel for those in further and for the clubs. Depending on traffic (northern Virginia traffic is horrible!) if you live in DC or the immediate suburbs it's going to be a real hassle to get far enough out to fly plus as you all know, finding a field where you can fly is hard. Luckily my little group has a fairgrounds behind a local fire department that lets us fly there. It's not the greatest place to fly because it is studded with light poles but other than that it is wide open farmland. Takes me 40 minutes to get there but that's okay. If those clubs stay closed, and it sure sounded like they would in that last sentence, they are all going to have to find a new place to fly as well. Jeez it's all such a mess....

Anyways thanks Konrad. Stay warm!