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FMS P51D 1450mm V8 Marie new build esc buzzing

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  • FMS P51D 1450mm V8 Marie new build esc buzzing

    Hi Guys;

    First let me apologize if I started this topic in the wrong place but when I searched on FMS P51D 1450mm I just saw some posts that were from 2015.

    I need some expertise from you FMS P51 gurus, if you don't mind.

    I purchased my Marie FMS P51D 1450mm V8 about a year ago but am now just getting around to building it as I didn't feel I was ready to fly it at that time (expertise wise).
    However, the Marie was discontinued and out of stock just about everywhere so I had to pull the trigger.

    I'm at the point where I bound the plane to my Spektrum DX6 and at first I just got a loud buzzing noise from the esc. Upon inspection, I found that the
    red wire in the esc was disconnected from the motor. So, I plugged it in, went through the throttle calibration and it bound fine. All control surfaces work.

    My problem is there is a very annoying and pretty loud buzzing coming out of the esc. I uploaded a video to capture the sound. I haven't experienced
    this type of buzzing from any of my other planes.

    Can you guys please take a listen and let me know what you think? This can't be normal right??

    Even though I purchase the bulk of my items from MRC, the Marie was discontinued at the time so I had to purchase it from another vendor
    (Graves RC). I haven't reached out to them yet but am worried it's been so long they may just give me the cold shoulder.

    Here's the youtube link to the video (I tried uploading it using the URL button but it failed)
    https://youtu.be/SXY1piZUVVI
    or
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXY1...ature=youtu.be


    Thanks for your help! Joe


  • #2
    Hello Joe,
    Viewed both vids and it really sounds like one of the inner gear door servos is trying to draw/pull the door closed too tight.
    Unfortunately on them you just can go into the Tx and change end points so your gonna have to make mechanical adjustments on the door linkages.
    The reason I believe it is one/both of those inner door servos cause the noise was loudest when you had the camera directly above the center point of the fuse/wing servo location.
    Cycle the gear and when the inner gear door is open I'll bet the noise goes away and then comes back after the sequencer closes it back up.
    Best regards,
    Warbird Charlie
    HSD Skyraider; FlightLine: Sea Fury; FMS 1400: P-40B, P-51, F4U, F6F, T-28, P-40E, 1700 F4U and a Fox glider; Freewing: A-6, P-51; VQ: P-39; Dynam: ME-262, FW-190, Waco; ASM A-26; ESM F7F-3; LX PBJ-1 EFL CZ T-28

    Comment


    • #3
      Hi Charlie;
      Thanks a lot for your help! I'll give that a look tonight when I get home from work. The more I looked last night the more I became unsure it is the esc. I hope your right since that sounds fixable

      Thanks buddy!
      Joe

      Comment


      • #4
        I'm with WarbirdCharlie on this one. When I got my FMS 1700mm P-51 the inner gear doors did not close all the way, I adjusted the linkage to fix that. The first time I adjusted the linkage I went too far and the servo buzzed and sounded like what yours sounds like. It took a couple of adjustments to get the doors to close without the servo buzzing.

        An easy way to find out is to cycle the gear, once the gear doors start moving and the sounds stops you've found the cause.

        I've also had this on flap servos as well, if the flaps are in the up position and there is strain on the servo it can buzz.

        Comment


        • #5
          It is your gear doors. I had the same problem with the Marie that I just built from scratch. I had to install all the servos since I built it out of new replacement parts. The tip of the servo arm was hitting the bottom of the fuse causing the noise. Since I did not want to remove the servos to adjust the arms, I just notched out a little spot so the arm did not hit the fuse. Try cycling your gear doors. If the noise is gone when they are open then that is your problem too! You may be able to just file the arms down a little.

          Comment


          • #6
            Here is my new build

            Comment


            • #7
              That's it guys! I had just enough time after work and before the Blackhawk's game to do some more digging.
              It's definitely coming from the gear doors. In fact, now the flaps are buzzing as well. In addition, while cycling the
              gear up and down a few times, at one point the gear doors opened but the wheels didn't come down until I cycled it again.

              Maybe I've just been lucky with previous models to not encounter this type of thing. This is my first venture into the larger birds.
              Are these normal occurrences?

              Nice Marie flyingiceberg! Of course I'm partial to the Marie :)

              Thanks everyone for taking the time to help me out! I may have to ping you again over the next couple of days when I get the time
              to work through these issues.

              Joe


              Comment


              • #8
                G'day Joe,
                The gear not coming with out a second cycle is a problem with the blue wrapped sequencer.
                However, I have become so paranoid about this, it has become part of my preflight checks on ever model I own. I have swapped to a green wrapped sequencer and have had no problems but still, I check it every flight.
                Some servos need a manual adjustment to stop the buzz and some [most] can be adjusted with the end point adjustments in the transmitter.
                I have just finished replacing the wings on my Shangri La. Near two hundred flights with not a problem and then I damage the wing in a car door that closed in the wind. After I had decided not to fly that day because of the wind.
                So readjusting the gear door servos took the longest of all to get right in both fit and buzz.
                I have not flown her yet with the new wings as we have bad floods and the end of the end of Cyclone Debbie. We did not get too bad of a flood but it is still nasty just a 100 kilometres to the north.
                Even today it was blowing the dog of a chain.
                Regards and respect
                Daryl

                Comment


                • #9
                  Hi Daryl;

                  Yep... I have the blue sequencer. I read another thread where someone said to cycle it twice before each flight and that so far has taken care of it for him.
                  I'll have to keep a close eye on it. If that fails, thanks for the "heads up" on the green sequencer. I finally had time to adjust the servo linkages on the gear doors.
                  Those linkages are fairly temperamental to find the balance between a fully closed door and no buzzing. It helped to depress the foam
                  around the doors a bit. However, I think I finally got it.

                  Sorry to hear about your mishap with the car door. How crazy is that to have 200 flights with no issue but then get damage from a car door.
                  Good luck riding out the remainder of the storm.

                  Thanks for the pointers Daryl!
                  Joe

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I wish that I could get a hold of the Marie model. A friend's father flew a Yellow Tail in Freddy Ohr's squadron. His plane was Michelle Marie. It's on my to-do list to build a flying model of my friend's father's plane. It'd be awesome, if I could start the modification with a plane that's already liveried as a yellow tail.
                    FLRC P-38L, Spit IX, F4U-1, Ta-152H; FW A-10, Me-262, F-86, Mosquito, FW-190A, MiG-15, P.15; Phoenix A-26; Graupner He-111; PZ FW-190A, Hurricane 25e;Avios MiG-17; DF Spit Vb, Bf-109E4; FMS 1.7m P-51D, 1.4m A6M;EH P-51D; HK B-17, Bf-110

                    YT Channel: ttps://www.youtube.com/channel/UCSC...ZP_mqfcFTeaBRg

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Hi Guys ... I need some more words of wisdom please ..

                      I'm just getting back to my Marie build and have worked out all the buzzing servo issues, for the most part. Although, they are pretty finnicky (aileron servo buzzez after moving the elevator).
                      However, my latest issue is with the pushrods for the elevator and rudder. There's very little deflection of these control surfaces occurring. When
                      I watch the pushrods operate they bow towards the center of the fuse instead of pushing out to the control surfaces. I've pushed them into the
                      the slots cut inside the fuse but they really don't stay in there. I've searched the net but man there's so many pages on the FMS P51 that
                      finding an answer to this specific problem is escaping me. I see one guys wishlist for stiffer pushrods.

                      So, I'm guessing I either have to purchase stiffer pushrods or maybe ca a piece of plastic in the fuse which would keep the pushrods in the
                      slots cut into the inside of the fuse so they don't bow towards the center of the fuse.

                      Between the buzzing servos, sometimes working retracts, pushrods on the flaps that were too short, bowing rudder and elevator pushrods, unequal deflection on
                      the elevator, so far I'm feeling a bit unimpressed with the quality. I mean its a great looking plane but shouldn't this stuff work?

                      Any suggestions on the pushrods and unequal deflection of the elevator would be greatly appreciated!

                      Thanks Guys! Joe

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Just found this post

                        "The one I got in 2015 had the slits you talk about, but the push rods are not fixed in the slits and are free to flex out of it. The quick fix was to
                        glue a piece of wood to trap the rod inside the slit."

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          You've got too much resistance going on in the hinges. All foam hinges should be manually "broke in" by hand before connecting to the servos.
                          Work those control surfaces back in forth about a dozen times. Deflect them to the stops each way.
                          The pushrod tubes in the fuse as you mentioned gluing is a good idea also. I did that on my Marie.
                          Yeah this stuff should work and it does the majority of the time but just remember "it is modeling" and sometimes things need to be tweak'd ;)
                          Warbird Charlie
                          HSD Skyraider; FlightLine: Sea Fury; FMS 1400: P-40B, P-51, F4U, F6F, T-28, P-40E, 1700 F4U and a Fox glider; Freewing: A-6, P-51; VQ: P-39; Dynam: ME-262, FW-190, Waco; ASM A-26; ESM F7F-3; LX PBJ-1 EFL CZ T-28

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Hey thanks Charlie!

                            yeah you're right... I let a little frustration bleed through last night...

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Back again guys;

                              First of all I disconnected all linkages and manually worked in the control surfaces as Charlie suggested and that helped a bunch! I also
                              glued some hard plastic strips in the fuse which are now keeping the pushrods in the grooves. That's all good..

                              Then...

                              I was in the process of adjusting the flap throws per the manual and the buzzing has returned on the flaps ..

                              Admittedly, all planes I've owned to this point that have flaps (Eflite p47 thunderbolt, DHC Beaver) I
                              Just had to dial the percentages into my Spektrum DX6 per what was called out in the manual and all was good. So, I never
                              had to play with servo setup "travel" using the transmitter settings. I've been at this for about two hours and thought I succeeded
                              several times only to cycle the flaps again and have the buzzing return.

                              I can deploy the flaps in two stages with no extended buzzing. However, when I come to the full up position the buzzing remains. If I apply a very
                              slight upward touch on the flap with my finger, the buzzing stops. I've tried adjusting the travel through the transmitter one click at a time and
                              sometimes that works to stop the buzzing only to return once I cycle the flaps again. It's like the servo just has to be touched for the buzzing to stop.
                              Currently, in my transmitter under servo setup.. travel .. flaps I have two
                              numbers (85 and 97) I'm honestly not sure what the numbers even mean (but see the flaps move) but I've tweaked them slightly at times to temporarily stop the buzzing.
                              I've disconnected the linkage and adjusted the lengths several times as well.

                              Here's the process I used to setup the flaps:
                              1. Disconnected the linkage and turned on the tx.
                              2. Removed and reset the servo arms so that they are pointing towards the LE leaving room so they don't bind.
                              3. Connected the pushrods and Adjusted the pushrod lengths so that the flaps were fully deployed per the manual spec.
                              4. My flap settings in the TX are pos 0: -100, pos1: -30, pos2: 80%
                              I stole the settings from what I had on my P47 and they seem to work pretty well.

                              I've uploaded a video, if you don't mind taking a look. Again, thanks for your help and any advice is greatly appreciated!

                              Joe


                              https://youtu.be/4AARXdh0pk4


                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Joe,
                                Now you are in the twilight zone of inexpensive digital servos. Damn near everyone of my birds with those servos has at least one that will do that and it doesn't matter what control surface.
                                It's just the bane of those cheap digitals trying to seek the set null point. If I get one that is really bothersome (the stbd one in your vid was really nothing) I will replace it with a an equivalent priced($10) analog servo.
                                Usually the mate to it is replaced also, like if it is an aileron replace the other aileron with matching replacement. The analogs won't hunt like the digital does but know that there are pros/cons to either.
                                I use Tork SA1811(17g) or TowerPro SG90(9g) when I swap in an analog when the whiny digital is really obnoxious and have never had one fail me yet :Whew:(knock on wood)

                                There are those purist that it drives crazy and then they are investing in something like Hitec servos at $25/ea and up. Think about it for that Marie, 8 servo's @ $200..........gets a little ........well.......stupid. ;)
                                Warbird Charlie
                                HSD Skyraider; FlightLine: Sea Fury; FMS 1400: P-40B, P-51, F4U, F6F, T-28, P-40E, 1700 F4U and a Fox glider; Freewing: A-6, P-51; VQ: P-39; Dynam: ME-262, FW-190, Waco; ASM A-26; ESM F7F-3; LX PBJ-1 EFL CZ T-28

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Originally posted by bluewaterjoe View Post
                                  Back again guys;

                                  First of all I disconnected all linkages and manually worked in the control surfaces as Charlie suggested and that helped a bunch! I also
                                  glued some hard plastic strips in the fuse which are now keeping the pushrods in the grooves. That's all good..

                                  Then...

                                  I was in the process of adjusting the flap throws per the manual and the buzzing has returned on the flaps ..

                                  Admittedly, all planes I've owned to this point that have flaps (Eflite p47 thunderbolt, DHC Beaver) I
                                  Just had to dial the percentages into my Spektrum DX6 per what was called out in the manual and all was good. So, I never
                                  had to play with servo setup "travel" using the transmitter settings. I've been at this for about two hours and thought I succeeded
                                  several times only to cycle the flaps again and have the buzzing return.

                                  I can deploy the flaps in two stages with no extended buzzing. However, when I come to the full up position the buzzing remains. If I apply a very
                                  slight upward touch on the flap with my finger, the buzzing stops. I've tried adjusting the travel through the transmitter one click at a time and
                                  sometimes that works to stop the buzzing only to return once I cycle the flaps again. It's like the servo just has to be touched for the buzzing to stop.
                                  Currently, in my transmitter under servo setup.. travel .. flaps I have two
                                  numbers (85 and 97) I'm honestly not sure what the numbers even mean (but see the flaps move) but I've tweaked them slightly at times to temporarily stop the buzzing.
                                  I've disconnected the linkage and adjusted the lengths several times as well.

                                  Here's the process I used to setup the flaps:
                                  1. Disconnected the linkage and turned on the tx.
                                  2. Removed and reset the servo arms so that they are pointing towards the LE leaving room so they don't bind.
                                  3. Connected the pushrods and Adjusted the pushrod lengths so that the flaps were fully deployed per the manual spec.
                                  4. My flap settings in the TX are pos 0: -100, pos1: -30, pos2: 80%
                                  I stole the settings from what I had on my P47 and they seem to work pretty well.

                                  I've uploaded a video, if you don't mind taking a look. Again, thanks for your help and any advice is greatly appreciated!

                                  Joe


                                  https://youtu.be/4AARXdh0pk4

                                  OV10 is right about digital servos. Even some of the expensive ones will buzz an carry on. From what I saw I think your probably in good shape. I would not worry to much about the buzz. I did not see any binding on your flap surfaces. Sounded like digital servo buzzing to me.

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Hey thanks so much guys! I feel a lot better about this after getting your responses. I'll have to educate myself on servos a bit.
                                    I think my hobby experience just entered a new level :).

                                    For now I'm going with them as is.

                                    Hey one more question.. To achieve the throws on the rudder and elevator specified in the manual, I had to dial in "travel" of 135 on the elevator
                                    and "120" on the rudder. Should I be doing that or should I move the clevis on the control arm closer to the control surface?

                                    Thanks again guys! Gettin closer!!
                                    Joe

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Joe,
                                      If your push rod clevis is in the outer most hole on the control horn then I would do a mechanical adjustment inward especially the elevator being at 135 which is starting to push the servo's limits of it's reliable range.
                                      I always try to avoid anything more than 120 on what I call "overdriving" the servo. That's why the standard nominal operating range is 100 at either end on the Tx.
                                      Warbird Charlie
                                      HSD Skyraider; FlightLine: Sea Fury; FMS 1400: P-40B, P-51, F4U, F6F, T-28, P-40E, 1700 F4U and a Fox glider; Freewing: A-6, P-51; VQ: P-39; Dynam: ME-262, FW-190, Waco; ASM A-26; ESM F7F-3; LX PBJ-1 EFL CZ T-28

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Sounds good Charlie... I'll make that change.
                                        Thanks!!

                                        Comment

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