FREEWING ME262 MOTOR UPGRADE WITH 12 BLADE FANS

[RCcruz]

1 x Freewing 70mm 12 blade 2100KV 2.6kg thrust 6S metal EDF positive propeller  + 1 x Freewing
70mm 12 blade 2100KV 2.6kg thrust 6S metal EDF reverse  propeller
Single set of parameters

70 metal ducted parameters: 1. Use of voltage: 6S = 22.2V
Use Motor 3065 2100kv inner rotor
Ducted thrust :2.5-2.6kg (blowing called test) 2.2-2.3kg (using the test fixture Test)
Current :65-75A
Weight: 300g
Leaves: 12 leaves
Duct diameter: 70.5mm Diameter: 73mm
Maximum speed: 46000 rpm
It's the same setup motion rc sells for upgrades on me262
so my ? Is can I use 2- 85 amp esc's on this setup???????

[Konrad]

RE: FREEWING ME262 MOTOR UPGRADE WITH 12 BLADE FANS

1 x Freewing 70mm 12 blade 2100KV 2.6kg thrust 6S metal EDF positive propeller  + 1 x Freewing
70mm 12 blade 2100KV 2.6kg thrust 6S metal EDF reverse  propeller
Single set of parameters

70 metal ducted parameters: 1. Use of voltage: 6S = 22.2V
Use Motor 3065 2100kv inner rotor
Ducted thrust :2.5-2.6kg (blowing called test) 2.2-2.3kg (using the test fixture Test)
Current :65-75A
Weight: 300g
Leaves: 12 leaves
Duct diameter: 70.5mm Diameter: 73mm
Maximum speed: 46000 rpm
It's the same setup motion rc sells for upgrades on me262
so my ? Is can I use 2- 85 amp esc's on this setup???????

Yes, you have 10 amps head room. Do make sure that you have cooling air flowing over the ESC. As I recall there is no (or little) air flow exit after the ESC's. There is an air inlet grate but the exit could be better planned. I like ESC with heat sinks on them. Truth be told the Freewing Me 262 does not need a power upgrade.

[RCcruz]

RE: FREEWING ME262 MOTOR UPGRADE WITH 12 BLADE FANS

1 x Freewing 70mm 12 blade 2100KV 2.6kg thrust 6S metal EDF positive propeller  + 1 x Freewing
70mm 12 blade 2100KV 2.6kg thrust 6S metal EDF reverse  propeller
Single set of parameters

70 metal ducted parameters: 1. Use of voltage: 6S = 22.2V
Use Motor 3065 2100kv inner rotor
Ducted thrust :2.5-2.6kg (blowing called test) 2.2-2.3kg (using the test fixture Test)
Current :65-75A
Weight: 300g
Leaves: 12 leaves
Duct diameter: 70.5mm Diameter: 73mm
Maximum speed: 46000 rpm
It's the same setup motion rc sells for upgrades on me262
so my ? Is can I use 2- 85 amp esc's on this setup???????

Yes, you have 10 amps head room. Do make sure that you have cooling air flowing over the ESC. As I recall there is no (or little) air flow exit after the ESC's. There is an air inlet grate but the exit could be better planned. I like ESC with heat sinks on them. Truth be told the Freewing Me 262 does not need a power upgrade.

Ok thanks

[Pheonix]

RE: FREEWING ME262 MOTOR UPGRADE WITH 12 BLADE FANS

1 x Freewing 70mm 12 blade 2100KV 2.6kg thrust 6S metal EDF positive propeller  + 1 x Freewing
70mm 12 blade 2100KV 2.6kg thrust 6S metal EDF reverse  propeller
Single set of parameters

70 metal ducted parameters: 1. Use of voltage: 6S = 22.2V
Use Motor 3065 2100kv inner rotor
Ducted thrust :2.5-2.6kg (blowing called test) 2.2-2.3kg (using the test fixture Test)
Current :65-75A
Weight: 300g
Leaves: 12 leaves
Duct diameter: 70.5mm Diameter: 73mm
Maximum speed: 46000 rpm
It's the same setup motion rc sells for upgrades on me262
so my ? Is can I use 2- 85 amp esc's on this setup???????

Yes, you have 10 amps head room. Do make sure that you have cooling air flowing over the ESC. As I recall there is no (or little) air flow exit after the ESC's. There is an air inlet grate but the exit could be better planned. I like ESC with heat sinks on them. Truth be told the Freewing Me 262 does not need a power upgrade.

Ok thanks

I agree.  I purchased all the parts to upgrade mine but decided against it when I took her to the field the last time. Flew like it was on rails and had all the power I needed.  I will keep the upgrade parts for another project.

[RCcruz]

RE: FREEWING ME262 MOTOR UPGRADE WITH 12 BLADE FANS

So wut do you all think we can do to improve longer flight times, bigger battery or ?
I get 3-3 1/2 min 6s 5000 mah 50c ADMIRAL voltage on each cell 3.75
I fly 3/4 @ THROTTLE
this jet is much fun

[Pheonix]

RE: FREEWING ME262 MOTOR UPGRADE WITH 12 BLADE FANS

This is a very good question. The flying time for most jets of this size is about 3-5 minutes. This will probably be the limit until the battery technology improves. I thought about using an 8-cell battery with the upgrade, but not sure this would add more flying time with the increased power drain. Motion might have some ideas that I would love to hear. Good question!

[Konrad]

RE: FREEWING ME262 MOTOR UPGRADE WITH 12 BLADE FANS

I fly with 6000 mAh cells and get 6 minute flights. I use 80% or less throttle as anything much above 80% just makes noise. Yes, it helps a bit with climb but really does little with speed. I place the battery as far aft as possible in the battery compartment. I also balance about 10mm further aft than what is shown on the plans. 

Why stop with so much power left in the cells (3.75V), I assume you measure this no load and right after the flight? Have you confirmed that you are leaving 20% of the capacity in the cell with your charger? 20% capacity is a safe amount to leave in the battery.

Higher cell count will require High Voltage BECs, Low KV motors and a charger that can handle the higher cell count. All these mods go against the Freewing concept of a low cost model.

Now to get higher run times you need to up the efficiency of the system.  12 bladed fans are not very efficient! They are used to give a pleasant swish  sound but at the cost of higher amp draw. Inrunners are a bit more efficient than out runners. 

In my Su 35 I actually went from a 6 bladed fan to a 5 bladed fan, used a motor with a 2500Kv rating and upper the ESC to 80 amps. This gave me more power about 1Kw @ 47amps. More speed as the fans are turning faster. And more efficiency as there is less blade loss and the oversized ESC has less internal resistance. 

Now at full power my run times are down from the stock set up. But at 80% power my run times are up and so is my power level.  The down side is that the Su35 sounds like an EDF. 

The best 70mm fan rotor in my opinion is the 9 bladed Wemotec. For 80mm fans I like the Jetfan rotor.

I hope this help?

All the best,
Konrad

[RCcruz]

RE: FREEWING ME262 MOTOR UPGRADE WITH 12 BLADE FANS

This is a very good question.  The flying time for most jets of this size is about 3-5 minutes.  This will probably be the limit until the battery technology improves. I thought about using an 8-cell battery with the upgrade, but not sure this would add more flying time with the increased power drain.  Motion might have some ideas that I would love to hear.  Good question!

Thanks for replying. I hope some one / any one / motion rc gives us good info .
[hr]

I fly with 6000 mAh cells and get 6 minute flights. I use 80% or less throttle as anything much above 80% just makes noise. Yes, it helps a bit with climb but really does little with speed. I place the battery as far aft as possible in the battery compartment. I also balance about 10mm further aft than what is shown on the plans. 

Why stop with so much power left in the cells (3.75V), I assume you measure this no load and right after the flight? Have you confirmed that you are leaving 20% of the capacity in the cell with your charger? 20% capacity is a safe amount to leave in the battery.

Higher cell count will require High Voltage BECs, Low KV motors and a charger that can handle the higher cell count. All these mods go against the Freewing concept of a low cost model.

Now to get higher run times you need to up the efficiency of the system.  12 bladed fans are not very efficient! They are used to give a pleasant swish  sound but at the cost of higher amp draw. Inrunners are a bit more efficient than out runners. 

In my Su 35 I actually went from a 6 bladed fan to a 5 bladed fan, used a motor with a 2500Kv rating and upper the ESC to 80 amps. This gave me more power about 1Kw @ 47amps. More speed as the fans are turning faster. And more efficiency as there is less blade loss and the oversized ESC has less internal resistance. 

Now at full power my run times are down from the stock set up. But at 80% power my run times are up and so is my power level.  The down side is that the Su35 sounds like an EDF. 

The best 70mm fan rotor in my opinion is the 9 bladed Wemotec. For 80mm fans I like the Jetfan rotor.

I hope this help?

All the best,
Konrad

Yes after landing and getting off the field . I check my Lipo
with hi-tech Lipo check.says I have 20% left 3.75 -3.78 each cell. So I can still get lil more flight ?
So going 5 blade instead of 6 ?
Il post a video soon showing my flight and after flight and showing each cell on Lipo battery.

[Konrad]

RE: FREEWING ME262 MOTOR UPGRADE WITH 12 BLADE FANS

OK,
You are aware that what these little hand held volt meters say really are just a guess. You need to calibrate this voltage value with what you put back into the battery. What do you have as a charger? Does it give you a value as to the amount of power (charge) put back into the battery?

What are you questioning as far a 5 instead of 6 blades?

Yes, I unloaded the rotor load with 5 blades. I upped the power by going with a higher KV motor 2500Kv ( I think stock is 2200Kv)

[RCcruz]

RE: FREEWING ME262 MOTOR UPGRADE WITH 12 BLADE FANS

OK,
You are aware that what these little hand held volt meters say really are just a guess. You need to calibrate this voltage value with what you put back into the battery. What do you have as a charger? Does it give you a value as to the amount of power (charge) put back into the battery?

What are you questioning as far a 5 instead of 6 blades?

Yes, I unloaded the rotor load with 5 blades. I upped the power by going with a higher KV motor 2500Kv ( I think stock is 2200Kv)

Charger =thunder 0620AC - 20A-300w
I never checked on that ,il have to see next time I recharge .
thanks for the info :D
[hr]
https://youtu.be/Izi8GNHIfAs
here is one of my flights. First jet ever owned .
ADMIRAL 5000MAH 6S 50 C
JUST STARTED USING EXPOS

[Konrad]

RE: FREEWING ME262 MOTOR UPGRADE WITH 12 BLADE FANS

Looks good. Looks like you were doing mainly nice flat maneuvers.
Your video made it sound like you had only taken out 20 percent of the power from the batteries.

Here is my Me 262 on its second flight. Still a bit nose heavy. This was with the stock set up, 6000mAh cells and I was fly in the thin  Denver air at close to 6000 feet of altitude. At the end I still had about 66% battery left. you will note that with the weight of the 6000mAh battery that she still had good vertical and a high roll rate. 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qKGhHF7Ow7o

[RCcruz]

RE: FREEWING ME262 MOTOR UPGRADE WITH 12 BLADE FANS

Looks good. Looks like you were doing mainly nice flat maneuvers.
Your video made it sound like you had only taken out 20 percent of the power from the batteries.

Here is my Me 262 on its second flight. Still a bit nose heavy. This was with the stock set up, 6000mAh cells and I was fly in the thin  Denver air at close to 6000 feet of altitude. At the end I still had about 66% battery left. you will note that with the weight of the 6000mAh battery that she still had good vertical and a high roll rate. 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qKGhHF7Ow7o

In my video I ment to say I had only 20% left after flight
[hr]

Looks good. Looks like you were doing mainly nice flat maneuvers.
Your video made it sound like you had only taken out 20 percent of the power from the batteries.

Here is my Me 262 on its second flight. Still a bit nose heavy. This was with the stock set up, 6000mAh cells and I was fly in the thin  Denver air at close to 6000 feet of altitude. At the end I still had about 66% battery left. you will note that with the weight of the 6000mAh battery that she still had good vertical and a high roll rate. 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qKGhHF7Ow7o

Awesome flight , wow dats good 66% left . I'm waiting on a 6200 mah 40c zippy see if it will help on flight .
Some one eles on YouTube uses 8000 mah 30c on the me262

[Konrad]

RE: FREEWING ME262 MOTOR UPGRADE WITH 12 BLADE FANS

I hope you caught the hint "thin Denver air". This puts a little less load on the rotor (more run time). But make the wing loading effectively higher (easier to snap).

[RCcruz]

RE: FREEWING ME262 MOTOR UPGRADE WITH 12 BLADE FANS

I hope you caught the hint "thin Denver air". This puts a little less load on the rotor (more run time). But make the wing loading effectively higher (easier to snap).

Yes, I'm currently working in south Boston va . It's humid here . I fly here at a field .
I'm from Texas and I dnt think the air is thin there either .

[RCcruz]

RE: FREEWING ME262 MOTOR UPGRADE WITH 12 BLADE FANS

I've started using zippy compact 6200mah 40c
get 4 1/2 mins on my timer after take off . Each cell is @ 3.75 after landing
got a HRB 6000 MAH 50C LIPO  and get same results.
I flew with 3/4 throttle straight on both lipos.  
Both lipos did not show no signs of puffing. Both dnt even get hott . I'm happy now that I can fly longer . 4 1/2 mins  is big difference to me then just flying 3 mins .
Weight wise of using 6200 mah and 6000 mah had no struggle getting in the air.

[Konrad]

RE: FREEWING ME262 MOTOR UPGRADE WITH 12 BLADE FANS

I've started using zippy compact 6200mah 40c
get 4 1/2 mins on my timer after take off . Each cell is @ 3.75 after landing
got a HRB 6000 MAH 50C LIPO  and get same results.
I flew with 3/4 throttle straight on both lipos.  
Both lipos did not show no signs of puffing. Both dnt even get hott . I'm happy now that I can fly longer . 4 1/2 mins  is big difference to me then just flying 3 mins .
Weight wise of using 6200 mah and 6000 mah had no struggle getting in the air.

Alright!!

HRB?

How many mAh did you put back into the batteries?

Where are the bigger batteries? Mine are at the very back of the battery compartment.

[RCcruz]

RE: FREEWING ME262 MOTOR UPGRADE WITH 12 BLADE FANS

I've started using zippy compact 6200mah 40c
get 4 1/2 mins on my timer after take off . Each cell is @ 3.75 after landing
got a HRB 6000 MAH 50C LIPO  and get same results.
I flew with 3/4 throttle straight on both lipos.  
Both lipos did not show no signs of puffing. Both dnt even get hott . I'm happy now that I can fly longer . 4 1/2 mins  is big difference to me then just flying 3 mins .
Weight wise of using 6200 mah and 6000 mah had no struggle getting in the air.

Alright!!

HRB?

How many mAh did you put back into the batteries?

Where are the bigger batteries? Mine are at the very back of the battery compartment.

http://m.aliexpress.com/item/733450216.html
Dats the link on the HRB LIPO

WHEN I charge the Lipo after those flights
my charger says bal 0000, after they were charged it says 4032 . Is that Wuts put back in? This is on the HRB LIPO 6000MAH 50C
Il check when I get back home on the Lipo position, but mine are not all the way back,or not all the way forward . Ok post a video soon

[Konrad]

RE: FREEWING ME262 MOTOR UPGRADE WITH 12 BLADE FANS

I've started using zippy compact 6200mah 40c
get 4 1/2 mins on my timer after take off . Each cell is @ 3.75 after landing
got a HRB 6000 MAH 50C LIPO  and get same results.
I flew with 3/4 throttle straight on both lipos.  
Both lipos did not show no signs of puffing. Both dnt even get hott . I'm happy now that I can fly longer . 4 1/2 mins  is big difference to me then just flying 3 mins .
Weight wise of using 6200 mah and 6000 mah had no struggle getting in the air.

Alright!!

HRB?

How many mAh did you put back into the batteries?

Where are the bigger batteries? Mine are at the very back of the battery compartment.

http://m.aliexpress.com/item/733450216.html
Dats the link on the HRB LIPO

WHEN I charge the Lipo  after those flights
my charger says bal 0000, after they were charged it says 4032 . Is that Wuts put back in? This is on the HRB LIPO 6000MAH 50C
Il check when I get back home on the Lipo position, but mine are not all the way back,or not all the way forward . Ok post a video soon

Thanks.
Without units attached I don't know, but if those are mAh you only took out 67% So did you little hand battery checker say you had something like 33% left?

[RCcruz]

RE: FREEWING ME262 MOTOR UPGRADE WITH 12 BLADE FANS

I've started using zippy compact 6200mah 40c
get 4 1/2 mins on my timer after take off . Each cell is @ 3.75 after landing
got a HRB 6000 MAH 50C LIPO  and get same results.
I flew with 3/4 throttle straight on both lipos.  
Both lipos did not show no signs of puffing. Both dnt even get hott . I'm happy now that I can fly longer . 4 1/2 mins  is big difference to me then just flying 3 mins .
Weight wise of using 6200 mah and 6000 mah had no struggle getting in the air.

Alright!!

HRB?

How many mAh did you put back into the batteries?

Where are the bigger batteries? Mine are at the very back of the battery compartment.

http://m.aliexpress.com/item/733450216.html
Dats the link on the HRB LIPO

WHEN I charge the Lipo  after those flights
my charger says bal 0000, after they were charged it says 4032 . Is that Wuts put back in? This is on the HRB LIPO 6000MAH 50C
Il check when I get back home on the Lipo position, but mine are not all the way back,or not all the way forward . Ok post a video soon

Thanks.
Without units attached I don't know, but if those are mAh you only took out 67% So did you little hand battery checker say you had something like 33% left?

Nope it said 22-26 % 3.75 3.75 3.76 3.77 3.75 3.75
No we're near 33%
[hr]

I've started using zippy compact 6200mah 40c
get 4 1/2 mins on my timer after take off . Each cell is @ 3.75 after landing
got a HRB 6000 MAH 50C LIPO  and get same results.
I flew with 3/4 throttle straight on both lipos.  
Both lipos did not show no signs of puffing. Both dnt even get hott . I'm happy now that I can fly longer . 4 1/2 mins  is big difference to me then just flying 3 mins .
Weight wise of using 6200 mah and 6000 mah had no struggle getting in the air.

Alright!!

HRB?

How many mAh did you put back into the batteries?

Where are the bigger batteries? Mine are at the very back of the battery compartment.

http://m.aliexpress.com/item/733450216.html
Dats the link on the HRB LIPO

WHEN I charge the Lipo  after those flights
my charger says bal 0000, after they were charged it says 4032 . Is that Wuts put back in? This is on the HRB LIPO 6000MAH 50C
Il check when I get back home on the Lipo position, but mine are not all the way back,or not all the way forward . Ok post a video soon

Thanks.
Without units attached I don't know, but if those are mAh you only took out 67% So did you little hand battery checker say you had something like 33% left?

Nope it said 22-26 % 3.75 3.75 3.76 3.77 3.75 3.75
No we're near 33%

I used the checker 10 mins before charging . Cells might of gone up cause I always see 3.78 3.77 3.78 3.78 3.80 3.77 when charging

[Konrad]

RE: FREEWING ME262 MOTOR UPGRADE WITH 12 BLADE FANS

I've started using zippy compact 6200mah 40c
get 4 1/2 mins on my timer after take off . Each cell is @ 3.75 after landing
got a HRB 6000 MAH 50C LIPO  and get same results.
I flew with 3/4 throttle straight on both lipos.  
Both lipos did not show no signs of puffing. Both dnt even get hott . I'm happy now that I can fly longer . 4 1/2 mins  is big difference to me then just flying 3 mins .
Weight wise of using 6200 mah and 6000 mah had no struggle getting in the air.

Alright!!

HRB?

How many mAh did you put back into the batteries?

Where are the bigger batteries? Mine are at the very back of the battery compartment.

http://m.aliexpress.com/item/733450216.html
Dats the link on the HRB LIPO

WHEN I charge the Lipo  after those flights
my charger says bal 0000, after they were charged it says 4032 . Is that Wuts put back in? This is on the HRB LIPO 6000MAH 50C
Il check when I get back home on the Lipo position, but mine are not all the way back,or not all the way forward . Ok post a video soon

Thanks.
Without units attached I don't know, but if those are mAh you only took out 67% So did you little hand battery checker say you had something like 33% left?

Nope it said 22-26 % 3.75 3.75 3.76 3.77 3.75 3.75
No we're near 33%

So something is not correlated (calibrated to the same spec) or the batteries weren't full charged to begin with or they aren't living up to there rated capacity. But it looks like a safe number.