Gecko 65A ESC Cuts Out

[Brainard]

I recently purchased a Gecko 65A and installed in my glider.  I did the calibration as the instructions told me to, but I noticed that the motor: FMS 4018-KV900 Motor for Fox Glider and RocHobby V-Tail - FMS-Motor-4018-KV900 cuts out between 90% to 100% throttle.  I do not understand why this is happening.  Is it a timing issue?  Is it a voltage issue?  

Any help will be appreciated. Yes, I also purchased the programming card.

[Konrad]

RE: Gecko 65A ESC Cuts Out

More likely than not, it is a battery issue. Voltage suppression under load. What are your batteries? What is the current draw? And what prop are you using? At what voltage did you set the cut off?

Are you aware of this firmware update?
http://www.hobbysquawk.com/thread-1760.html

All the best,
Konrad

[Pheonix]

RE: Gecko 65A ESC Cuts Out

Hi Konard, I tried to get this firmware to work after I received the email from, I believe, Altitude Hobbies. So far, i have had no issues with my ZTW Mantis 85 works just fine. If you figure out how to get it to work, please let me know how you did so. Thanks much.

[Konrad]

RE: Gecko 65A ESC Cuts Out

"So far, I have had no issues with my ZTW Mantis 85 works just fine." So what is the issue?

Yes. Altitude Hobbies was driving this new firmware up date.

[Pheonix]

RE: Gecko 65A ESC Cuts Out

No issue with the Mantis. I also have a ZTW Gecko 85 and just wanted to update the firmware if possible. I am sure I will figure it out when I need to do so.

[Konrad]

RE: Gecko 65A ESC Cuts Out

My understanding is that the new firmware is for the Gecko's (BEC and Opto) only. You will need the control box and a windows machine (or OS).

I have to ask the OP why a poll. I never understood how a poll helps troubleshooting? Like the Buffalo Springfield song said; "Nobody right if everybody is wrong"

All the best,
kKnrad

[Brainard]

RE: Gecko 65A ESC Cuts Out

Hi Konard, I tried to get this firmware to work after I received the email from, I believe, Altitude Hobbies.  So far, i have had no issues with my ZTW Mantis 85 works just fine.  If you figure out how to get it to work, please let me know how you did so.  Thanks much.

No issue with the Mantis.  I also have a ZTW Gecko 85 and just wanted to update the firmware if possible.  I am sure I will figure it out when I need to do so.

Sorry but I am not seeing what this has too do with the question I asked.  Phoenix, do you need to start your own thread about a Gecko 85A?  

[Konrad]

RE: Gecko 65A ESC Cuts Out

It the Geko 85 is from the same series of ESC as your Geko 65, and as a result have the same firmware and issues. Other than the number of MOSFETs the power board has, the ESCs are the same.

So do have you any information that I requested to help me help you?

[Brainard]

RE: Gecko 65A ESC Cuts Out

Well, other than the firmware update you mentioned that I need to install, the battery is an 1800 mah x 11.1volt Eflite with 30 C, the motor you already know, the prop is a 12X6 folding.  Before this ESC, the plane had a ZTW 40A that seemed to get very, very hot. :exclamation:

[Konrad]

RE: Gecko 65A ESC Cuts Out

Usually there really isn't a need. I just mentions that there is a new firmware update. Having a real hot ESC is a clue that you are drawing far too much current. I suspect the issue in with the motor. The safety shut downs in the ESC between the two series might explain why the higher current ESC is more sensitive to the thermal over load.

[Brainard]

RE: Gecko 65A ESC Cuts Out

I am not following you. The 40A ESC came with the plane. So, you are saying that my plane came from ROC Hobby with an under sized motor or faulty motor? We have been trying to download the Firmware Update you referenced for about an hour and have had no luck. I think my biggest mistake was purchasing an over-priced, under-performing ESC from Motion RC. Clearly, Eflite and Castle products are far, far superior to this...they don't cut out at high RPMs.

For your information, I purchased this ESC for the SBEC feature....hoping that it will run cooler. Won't make that mistake again. I will ensure that none of the hundreds of individuals that I fly with will make this mistake either.

[Pheonix]

RE: Gecko 65A ESC Cuts Out

Hi Konard, I tried to get this firmware to work after I received the email from, I believe, Altitude Hobbies.  So far, i have had no issues with my ZTW Mantis 85 works just fine.  If you figure out how to get it to work, please let me know how you did so.  Thanks much.

No issue with the Mantis.  I also have a ZTW Gecko 85 and just wanted to update the firmware if possible.  I am sure I will figure it out when I need to do so.

Sorry but I am not seeing what this has too do with the question I asked.  Phoenix, do you need to start your own thread about a Gecko 85A?  

No.  My mistake in mentioning the issue.  Will  avoid these posts in the future.  

[Brainard]

RE: Gecko 65A ESC Cuts Out

No issue with the Mantis.  I also have a ZTW Gecko 85 and just wanted to update the firmware if possible.  I am sure I will figure it out when I need to do so.

Hi Konard, I tried to get this firmware to work after I received the email from, I believe, Altitude Hobbies.  So far, i have had no issues with my ZTW Mantis 85 works just fine.  If you figure out how to get it to work, please let me know how you did so.  Thanks much.

No issue with the Mantis.  I also have a ZTW Gecko 85 and just wanted to update the firmware if possible.  I am sure I will figure it out when I need to do so.

Sorry but I am not seeing what this has too do with the question I asked.  Phoenix, do you need to start your own thread about a Gecko 85A?  

No.  My mistake in mentioning the issue.  Will  avoid these posts in the future.  

No problem.  I am returning my Gecko ESC to Motion RC and buying an EFlite.  I would recommend that you do the same.  I am not dealing with a Chinese company that will not support it's product in the USA.  Also, I am not spending hours fiddling with software that refuses to work.  No more ZTW!

[Konrad]

RE: Gecko 65A ESC Cuts Out

Well, you and your friends need to learn to do a better job of troubleshooting. Without an amp meter you are shooting in the dark. I can tell you that the throttle response on the E-flite Pro ESC is atrocious. The Geko is renowned for its good throttle response. Some of the Castle Ice and earlier ESC had weak MOSFET drivers. The Edge series in much better in this regard.

It is not wise to blame a product of system if you haven't been able to explain (confirm) the failure mode.

By what little you have given us, I would look at the motor windings. The motor, prop, ESC and cells spec'd and called out in the glider manual do result in a nice sport aerobatic model and with head room to give reasonable life. True, you won't get anything like a hot liner or even warm liner performance but it's foamy and a great flying foamy.

Please isolate the true problem(s) it should elevate much of your frustration.

[Brainard]

RE: Gecko 65A ESC Cuts Out

No issue with the Mantis.  I also have a ZTW Gecko 85 and just wanted to update the firmware if possible.  I am sure I will figure it out when I need to do so.

Well, you and your friends need to learn to do a better job of troubleshooting. Without an amp meter you are shooting in the dark.   I can tell you that the throttle response on the E-flite Pro ESC is atrocious. The Geko is renowned for its good throttle response.  Some of the Castle Ice and earlier ESC had weak MOSFET drivers. The Edge series in much better in this regard.

It is not wise to blame a product of system if you haven't been able to explain (confirm) the failure mode.

By what little you have given us, I would look at the motor windings. The motor, prop, ESC and cells  spec'd and called out in the glider manual do result in a nice sport aerobatic model and with head room to give reasonable life. True, you won't get anything like a hot liner or even warm liner performance but it's foamy and a great flying foamy.

Please isolate the true problem(s) it should elevate much of your frustration.

LOL...when they actually work (the Gecko controllers, that is).  Those of us who fly plenty use this little feature called 'throttle curve' to correct throttle response.  

The true source of my frustration are individuals, who claim to have answers, but really want to make themselves seem smart and superior to everyone else.  When I pose a question, I want a simple, direct answer to my question.  If the answer is unknown or requires further research, that is OK.  If I made a mistake, that is OK too.

Individuals who pretend to know something simply to seem smart or clever just annoy me and everyone else who reads these threads.

As I said earlier: the product has been returned so I don't need any more "pointers" or "advice".  Unless it is from someone who can actually troubleshoot the product.

[Konrad]

RE: Gecko 65A ESC Cuts Out

I’m sure as an experienced flier, you know that information you posted would not lead anyone to be able to accurately help you.
I or anyone who wanted to help would have had to ask for a lot more information. We finally learned that even the OEM ESC got very hot. Please help us help you. So while I’m sure you have a real problem with some component in the power system. I’m also convinced that you don’t know how to assess (troubleshoot) the issue. I point to your use of a poll and that you have failed to offer any amp reading.

I fear that you have been hoisted by your own petard.
What you describe with the power curve is an attempt to get a linear power curve. That is that the POWER from the prop would in direct proportion to the throttle stick position. You might be aware that since a prop absorbs power by the cube of the RPM. And that a linear RPM response from the motor will result in a very uneven POWER response relative to stick position. This was first addressed by Jomar Products in the early 80’s with his line of speed controllers.
http://www.emsjomar.com
He set up his ESC to have a response that plotted a reversed exponential to the throttle stick position. I am aware that Castle Creation uses this response profile on their aircraft ESC.
(Please be aware of the difference between Power and RPM)

Now what I was taking about with the throttle response being atrocious with the E-Flite Pro (and maybe all E-Flite) ESC might best be described as latency. When you give a stick command it takes The E-Flite Pro ESC a very long time effect any response from the motor. I’ve measured this time delay in the order of 500 milliseconds. This can be rather annoying for sport flying. And it is totally unacceptable when hovering close to the ground. This is why E-Flite Has gone with Castle Creation ESC in their latest helicopter offerings, along with the fantastic Castle Heli governor.
http://www.horizonhobby.com/product/helicopters/electric-helicopters/blade-helicopters/180-cfx-bnf-basic-blh3450

Now in your application I too use E-Flite Pro ESC only because they are unsuitable for just about any other aircraft application other than trainers and gliders

This is a technical hobby and as such will require more thought and support equipment (tools [amp meter]) than most leisure endeavors.

I have to thank customers like you for supplying MotionRC with so many useful products for their Scratch and Dent sale section. I look forward to getting a Geko 65 or even a glider ad a huge discount.

Keeping an eye of the S&D sales,
Konrad

[Pheonix]

RE: Gecko 65A ESC Cuts Out

No issue with the Mantis.  I also have a ZTW Gecko 85 and just wanted to update the firmware if possible.  I am sure I will figure it out when I need to do so.

Well, you and your friends need to learn to do a better job of troubleshooting. Without an amp meter you are shooting in the dark.   I can tell you that the throttle response on the E-flite Pro ESC is atrocious. The Geko is renowned for its good throttle response.  Some of the Castle Ice and earlier ESC had weak MOSFET drivers. The Edge series in much better in this regard.

It is not wise to blame a product of system if you haven't been able to explain (confirm) the failure mode.

By what little you have given us, I would look at the motor windings. The motor, prop, ESC and cells  spec'd and called out in the glider manual do result in a nice sport aerobatic model and with head room to give reasonable life. True, you won't get anything like a hot liner or even warm liner performance but it's foamy and a great flying foamy.

Please isolate the true problem(s) it should elevate much of your frustration.

LOL...when they actually work (the Gecko controllers, that is).  Those of us who fly plenty use this little feature called 'throttle curve' to correct throttle response.  

The true source of my frustration are individuals, who claim to have answers, but really want to make themselves seem smart and superior to everyone else.  When I pose a question, I want a simple, direct answer to my question.  If the answer is unknown or requires further research, that is OK.  If I made a mistake, that is OK too.

Individuals who pretend to know something simply to seem smart or clever just annoy me and everyone else who reads these threads.

As I said earlier: the product has been returned so I don't need any more "pointers" or "advice".  Unless it is from someone who can actually troubleshoot the product.

Bravo Zulu!
[hr]
I suggest we put this dragon to bed.  Enough has been said with all having the opportunity to display their knowledge base, good or not so good.  The sad part is that some maybe hesitant to ask questions for fear of intimidation.  From now on, I will only do so when absolutely necessary; and want responses for those that are willing to help and not question my knowledge base, please.  

[Konrad]

RE: Gecko 65A ESC Cuts Out

No issue with the Mantis.  I also have a ZTW Gecko 85 and just wanted to update the firmware if possible.  I am sure I will figure it out when I need to do so.

Well, you and your friends need to learn to do a better job of troubleshooting. Without an amp meter you are shooting in the dark.   I can tell you that the throttle response on the E-flite Pro ESC is atrocious. The Geko is renowned for its good throttle response.  Some of the Castle Ice and earlier ESC had weak MOSFET drivers. The Edge series in much better in this regard.

It is not wise to blame a product of system if you haven't been able to explain (confirm) the failure mode.

By what little you have given us, I would look at the motor windings. The motor, prop, ESC and cells  spec'd and called out in the glider manual do result in a nice sport aerobatic model and with head room to give reasonable life. True, you won't get anything like a hot liner or even warm liner performance but it's foamy and a great flying foamy.

Please isolate the true problem(s) it should elevate much of your frustration.

LOL...when they actually work (the Gecko controllers, that is).  Those of us who fly plenty use this little feature called 'throttle curve' to correct throttle response.  

The true source of my frustration are individuals, who claim to have answers, but really want to make themselves seem smart and superior to everyone else.  When I pose a question, I want a simple, direct answer to my question.  If the answer is unknown or requires further research, that is OK.  If I made a mistake, that is OK too.

Individuals who pretend to know something simply to seem smart or clever just annoy me and everyone else who reads these threads.

As I said earlier: the product has been returned so I don't need any more "pointers" or "advice".  Unless it is from someone who can actually troubleshoot the product.

Bravo Zulu!

[hr]
I suggest we put this dragon to bed.  Enough has been said with all having the opportunity to display their knowledge base, good or not so good.  The sad part is that some maybe hesitant to ask questions for fear of intimidation.  From now on, I will only do so when absolutely necessary; and want responses for those that are willing to help and not question my knowledge base, please.  

Pheonix nobody was questioning your knowledge, well not I.

I encourage all to ask question. But to use the opportunity to attack a product and the respondent is above the pale. The OP was giving you a jab mentioning the Geko 85. It appears that the OP really just wanted to vent his frustration not really get to the meat of the issue.

All the best,
Konrad

[Brainard]

RE: Gecko 65A ESC Cuts Out

No issue with the Mantis.  I also have a ZTW Gecko 85 and just wanted to update the firmware if possible.  I am sure I will figure it out when I need to do so.

Well, you and your friends need to learn to do a better job of troubleshooting. Without an amp meter you are shooting in the dark.   I can tell you that the throttle response on the E-flite Pro ESC is atrocious. The Geko is renowned for its good throttle response.  Some of the Castle Ice and earlier ESC had weak MOSFET drivers. The Edge series in much better in this regard.

It is not wise to blame a product of system if you haven't been able to explain (confirm) the failure mode.

By what little you have given us, I would look at the motor windings. The motor, prop, ESC and cells  spec'd and called out in the glider manual do result in a nice sport aerobatic model and with head room to give reasonable life. True, you won't get anything like a hot liner or even warm liner performance but it's foamy and a great flying foamy.

Please isolate the true problem(s) it should elevate much of your frustration.

LOL...when they actually work (the Gecko controllers, that is).  Those of us who fly plenty use this little feature called 'throttle curve' to correct throttle response.  

The true source of my frustration are individuals, who claim to have answers, but really want to make themselves seem smart and superior to everyone else.  When I pose a question, I want a simple, direct answer to my question.  If the answer is unknown or requires further research, that is OK.  If I made a mistake, that is OK too.

Individuals who pretend to know something simply to seem smart or clever just annoy me and everyone else who reads these threads.

As I said earlier: the product has been returned so I don't need any more "pointers" or "advice".  Unless it is from someone who can actually troubleshoot the product.

Bravo Zulu!


[hr]
I suggest we put this dragon to bed.  Enough has been said with all having the opportunity to display their knowledge base, good or not so good.  The sad part is that some maybe hesitant to ask questions for fear of intimidation.  From now on, I will only do so when absolutely necessary; and want responses for those that are willing to help and not question my knowledge base, please.  

Pheonix nobody was questioning your knowledge, well not I.

I encourage all to ask question. But to use the opportunity to attack a product and the respondent is above the pale. The OP was giving you a jab mentioning the Geko 85. It appears that the OP really just wanted to vent his frustration not really get to the meat of the issue.

All the best,
Konrad

I am not questioning anyone's knowledge. I simply asked if anyone could help me troubleshoot a Gecko 65A ESC. Turns out that the ESC needs a firmware update that I cannot load on to the ESC. No one can tell me how to accomplish this so I returned the product. Seems pretty straightforward to me.

[Konrad]

RE: Gecko 65A ESC Cuts Out

No, it doesn't!! Well, not by the limited description of the issue you posted. It is just that there is a new firmware update.
I assume ( I know it makes an A$$ out of you and me) you are using this/
http://www.motionrc.com/ztw-lcd-esc-programming-card/

Help somebody ( not me) that might be willing to tackle you and your issue(s). What is the AMP draw and what OS and computer equipment might you be useing to attempt the firmware update.

I'm sorry I ever tried!!

Good day!!!