Teaching Myself to Fly

[crankestein]

Those tip stalls should be fun, seeing the plane tumble.

Go about three mistakes high, stay low on the throttle into the wind, chill, do just like that, play a song, sing outloud if need be and go for it. As long as the throttle is kept low, the plane will not go down like a rock, it will fly and possibly glide for a good while.

Heart rate will go up, hands will get clamy, its just normal, but once past that its great, into a new level of flying.

good luck

[Bill Wakeley Jr.]

This is my 4th year addicted to r/c airplanes, and I taught myself. The 1st spring I was paired with a guy from a different club. All he did was holler and wreck 2 of my planes. I was not Quiet Bill when I told him to go pound salt. So that fall I got a Phoenix simulator and spent hours daily on it. After 3 years I still use it to work out a maneuver. My big problem now is figuring out how and when to charge or discharge my batteries. Ive heard that batteries will puff ( I have 4 like this ) if you leave them fully charged for more than a week. I have a Dynamite balancer/discharger and need some hard facts about when to discharge a battery, how to figure out how many amps to charge a battery and what the "Lipo Fast" charge setting does to a battery. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Bill

[xviper]

This is my 4th year addicted to r/c airplanes, and I taught myself. The 1st spring I was paired with a guy from a different club. All he did was holler and wreck 2 of my planes. I was not Quiet Bill when I told him to go pound salt. So that fall I got a Phoenix simulator and spent hours daily on it. After 3 years I still use it to work out a maneuver. My big problem now is figuring out how and when to charge or discharge my batteries. Ive heard that batteries will puff ( I have 4 like this ) if you leave them fully charged for more than a week. I have a Dynamite balancer/discharger and need some hard facts about when to discharge a battery, how to figure out how many amps to charge a battery and what the "Lipo Fast" charge setting does to a battery. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Bill

There's one like that at every field. They can be miserable old coots. I don't listen to them. When someone comes to me asking for advice, I am very careful not to over state anything and I don't get excited about how they fly. If they ask me to fly their plane for them, I'm very reluctant and I will do it with sufficient warning that it could still result in a crash even if I check the plane over as best I can. I usually prefer to stand next to them and help them with trimming.
Batteries usually puff due to overly hard use during a flight. If it puffs, it wasn't a good quality battery for the application (C rating, brand, etc.) and even the top name brands can sell a low quality unit. I've kept batteries fully charged for weeks and my old flying buddy used to charge his batteries as soon as comes home from the field and keeps them that way till he flies, at which time, he'd top them up the night before. He was known to keep them like that for many weeks sometimes and they never puffed. Having said that, I prefer to charge them a night or two before using them and if I don't fly them in a week or two, I discharge them to storage charge.
Charging batteries are generally done by "C", NOT to be confused with the "C" rating of the battery (eg, 30C). Charging a battery at 1C means charging it at the rated mah hour of the battery. If you have a 2200mah, you charge it at 2.2Amps if you want to go 1C. If the battery says it can take 2C, then you can charge it up to 4.4A. 1C is the preferred rate of charge to promote longevity in a battery. Quick charging repeatedly can shorten the life considerably. Most chargers will stop charging once each cell has reached 4.2 volts, unless you have a high voltage battery.

[SWOFLY]

It's a shame you don't have a club nearby that is devoted to expanding the R/C hobby like mine is. We have 3 trainer planes with "buddy box" transmitters several qualified instructors always ready to teach a newbie how to fly the easy way so that you don't crash , waste a bunch of money and get disgusted like who knows how many people like you who would love to get into this hobby but need assistance both in learning to fly but all the technical stuff that goes with it. You don't say where you live but if you're up to taking a vacation in Florida then come down to Palm Coast and visit the Flagler County RAMS field. We'll get you going the easy way.

[crankestein]

The puff "usually" in my experience, when the battery is ran last its lowest voltage, which should be no lower than 3.50, me never lower than 3.70 per cell. For foamies, nothing lower than 30C, even for the whimpy Bixler 2 je je.
That is one great plane to get some stick time and practice maneuvers.

I never use fast charge, and never charge at 1C, always half of its mah. Check the connectors whe flying, they should be warm to the touch after a flight.

A good charger is the Hitec X2, lets you check resistance. Have had the same batteries for yrs.

[BluesDragon]

I've noticed two of my Admiral 4s 35c's have started to show a bit of swelling/puff. Only ones I've yet to have swell up on me. In the past I was known to leave them charged and on the ready. I've since deleted that practice and keep them stored with a 'storage charge/discharge'. Most of my birds use a 3s, so the 4s would get passed up too often. So my question here is... are they still relatively safe to use?... or is it best to just destroy them and move on?:Confused:

[xviper]

"A bit of puffing" is not reason to throw a battery away. You must use other criteria to make that judgement. First, do they charge up in the normal way and do they charge up with all cells being even? Then, does the battery seem to fun the plane in the usual way - ie, flight time, power, condition after landing. If flight time is starting to diminish greatly, that's a good sign it may not be holding charge well. When you give it throttle, does the plane move off as you last recall it? After landing, is the battery even more puffed? Is it hot to touch? You'll know it's time to get rid of it when it doesn't charge up evenly on each cell or if it won't go to full charge anymore. Same goes for "in air" performance. Does it not give good power when you crank the throttle?

[wolpertinger]

I've noticed two of my Admiral 4s 35c's have started to show a bit of swelling/puff. Only ones I've yet to have swell up on me. In the past I was known to leave them charged and on the ready. I've since deleted that practice and keep them stored with a 'storage charge/discharge'. Most of my birds use a 3s, so the 4s would get passed up too often. So my question here is... are they still relatively safe to use?... or is it best to just destroy them and move on?:Confused:

In most cases a minor puffing is common but should be monitored. If the battery is puffed like a balloon then no longer use it. The following is from the Learningrc web page,

Are Swollen Lipo Batteries Dangerous?

Yes. Next question.

That doesn’t mean that every battery that is puffed is going to explode as soon as you use it but it does mean that a high enough percentage of them are going to be dangerous that it isn’t worth the risk. What Causes Lipo Batteries to Puff Up?

Gas generation in lithium ion batteries is a normal thing. Even if you don’t abuse your battery, the normal everyday use of your battery will generate gas through a process called electrolyte decomposition.

The electrolyte decomposition occurs even faster if you over discharge a battery or overheat a battery. What is electrolyte decompostion?

Simply put, a battery is made of three things: the anode, the cathode and the electrolyte. The cathode and the anode are the positive and negative terminals on your battery.

The electrolyte is a chemical inside the battery that allows charged ions to flow from the anode to the cathode during discharge (and the other way during charging).

Electrolyte decomposition is what happens when that electrolyte chemically breaks down. So in a lipo battery, as the electrolyte breaks down you end up with lithium and oxygen. This forms lithium oxide on the anode and cathode (depending whether you are charging or discharging).

But what you also end up with is excess oxygen that doesn’t adhere to the anode or cathode. This excess oxygen is part of what causes a battery swell. And oxygen likes to burn. See here for more details. He also goes over some other reasons a battery might swell.

Other gases that can be found in the battery during the normal chemical reactions of a battery are carbon dioxide (CO2) and carbon monoxide (CO). For a technical overview of this, see this paper. How to Fix a Swollen Battery

YOU Don’t. Just Don’t.

Dispose of it properly (see below) and buy a new one.

It’s not worth injuring yourself or burning your house down to save a few bucks. How to Dispose of Puffed Lipo Batteries

The proper way to dispose of a swollen lipo battery is the same as what you would do when you throw out any old battery. You need to discharge it completely first.

The two main methods that people use to discharge a battery completely is to hook it up to a light bulb or to put it in a bucket of salt water. There are debates about which method is better but I will avoid that debate here for now.

If you decide to hook it up to a light bulb, I would recommend these 12 V, 20 Watt halogen bulbs. They are easy to solder to so you attach lead wires and connector pretty easily. This makes it easy to just plug in your battery to let it discharge. You can hook multiple in parallel to get the discharge rate you want. If you have any questions about this,

After you’ve completely discharged the battery, I recommend finding your nearest battery recycling drop-off point and bringing it there. Make sure you call ahead and ask if they accept damaged batteries. Tips to Avoid a Swollen Battery

• Proper charging – Make sure you charge your battery properly using a quality battery charger. For safety, make sure you put your batteries in a lipo bag while charging. If you don’t have a lipo bag, I highly recommend you buy one. For around $10, you can insure that if something does go wrong at will at least be contained.
• Don’t over-discharge – Make sure you stop using your battery before the voltage gets to the minimum cut-off voltage.
• Heat kills batteries – Don’t use batteries or charge batteries when they are warm. After you’re done using them, give them a little time to cool off before you charge them. And after you are done charging them, give them a little time before you use them.
• Proper storage – Do not store your batteries in a hot location. (For example, don’t keep them in the trunk of your car during in the summer.) Store lipo’s at the proper storage voltage. The article I linked to above showed that swelling increased significantly after only 4 hours of storage when batteries were at a state of charge above 80%.

Conclusion

To sum up: As lipo’s age and if they are misused, gases start to form in the battery and cause it to swell. Once you have a puffy lipo, the safe thing to do is to discharge it completely and then recycle it.

[BluesDragon]

Very good read there, thanks! :Cool:

"A bit of puffing" is not reason to throw a battery away. You must use other criteria to make that judgement. First, do they charge up in the normal way and do they charge up with all cells being even? Then, does the battery seem to fun the plane in the usual way - ie, flight time, power, condition after landing. If flight time is starting to diminish greatly, that's a good sign it may not be holding charge well. When you give it throttle, does the plane move off as you last recall it? After landing, is the battery even more puffed? Is it hot to touch? You'll know it's time to get rid of it when it doesn't charge up evenly on each cell or if it won't go to full charge anymore. Same goes for "in air" performance. Does it not give good power when you crank the throttle?

Thanks for the feedback! So far they appear to charge, balance, and discharge evenly. I haven't noticed any performance issues, but will keep a close on them for now. I also have a 3s that was slightly dented in a nose dive. Charged and discharged multiple times before using it again. It hasn't swelled in the least and keeps on performing just like new. They do keep me on high alert when charging though. :Sweating:

[crankestein]

this thread really took a turn.

all cells even out when charging and discharging... HEAT is something to monitor. Batteries should never be scalding hot, just warm, probably a bit high warm, and check resistance.

But for the price and amount of flying time, I wont think twice on buying a new battery and recycling the puffed one. In any case if using the puff batteries, use them w some caution and not pushing them to the limit. Most of my old 3S puff batteries to the Bixler and Phoenix 2000.

I got a fee slightly puffed 5S 5000mah 60c for a ARRMA Talion buggy geared for high speed runs. Am very cautious w throttle, and every now and then bring it back to quickly touch the pack and connectors, and if so a lipo cell checker to monitor discharged halfway on the run, not when they are all at 3.70.

Yeah, keep an eye on that dented battery....

[BluesDragon]

I don't know, maybe a slight turn... I'll try to trim it a few clicks.

The proper care , and disposal, of these batteries are also a part of the 'learning' process. I am looking to replace the puffy ones. They are both 4s, yet the 3s with the dent on the front is still running strong, on all cells, with no signs of puffing in the least. I do keep a close eye on it though. Thanks crank!

On the actual 'learning to fly' part of things... I'm trying to work with the Corsair more and more. It's the one that uses the 4s batts, my other birds are all on the 3's. I had one of our club instructors look it over and re-trim it out for me. He suggested changing to a larger (3k+ mAh) 4s. So those will replace the older puffs mentioned above. He also explained I've been 'teaching myself to fly' on too high of rates. I've been going by the suggested manual settings. I've since backed it down to 35% (by his suggestion) on the low side. My anxiety still gets fired up, but I do feel just a little bit calmer now.

[Bill Wakeley Jr.]

I've been doing this for four years and have yet to find instruction to properly flare your plane on landing. I get lucky most times, I have picked up a little bit of info here and there and I always try the methods suggested to me from other pilots here. If you're going to go it alone, ( I did ) , stick to that simulator til you're bored. Try all the different planes and settings..... you can see how this begins to form a picture of a good plane for your style and preference. If you're having problems on the stim, don't fly your plane til you get it worked out. Cyber models are much more cost effective to crash than real ones!