Help Protect the RC Flying Hobby

[Valkpilot]

As i am an AMA member, i guess since i pay my fees and crap im not intitled to a voice or to be protected? Oh HELL NO! That **** can go strait to hell. I do not have or need to drive 170 miles to an AMA field when i have more land to fly on than any AMA field in the United States, and i guarantee you what i have paid for and done for this place every year far out weighs any amount you could ever hope to come up with. So yeah, any one who pays taxes in this country has a freaking voice a few of us have paid dearly including this man Valkpilot. Just because you fly at a damn "AMA approved" field doesnt make you right. No mater how right you think you are.

Thank you for your support, though my price wasn't as high as yours.

[rifleman_btx]

You signed that blank check as much as me, so with that comes the backup, in the end, even with the ribbing and all that we all do with eachother. That is just how we roll. :Cool:

[seaviper]

I spent 25 years in the FAA. Trust me, those guys don't want to be bothered with RC testing and certification. They might HAVE to do something eventually. But they don't want more bs to deal with. So the crap rolls downhill and the FAA is just a little bit upstream from us.
Harassing the FAA won't get you anywhere and may cause harm to the hobby. They probably know nothing about this stuff right now anyway. I would write my congressman. Maybe show photos of fly-ins and web links to positive things in RC. Many of them don't even know what RC is.

[Hardway]

Sage advice!!! Thanks....

[Hardway]

Sorry I was a little wound up last evening. After all the political garbage on the radio and news, reading about folks in congress trying to destroy a wonderful hobby pushed me to the edge of being uncivil.... A few martinis set me back on the straight and narrow!!! That and saying my prayers!! Please accept my apologies all.....

[rifleman_btx]

Much agreed.

[boomer108]

I know two FAA people who were in Air Guard with me one is a check pilot the other a maintenance inspector. They both have said the same thing to me that they have better things to do than bother responsible rc flyers, just prosecute the offenders when there caught and maybe the others will get the message. I see no problem with flying at a non sanctioned field or your back yard as long as your safe and responsible, but that's the problem irresponsible people fly anywhere including sanctioned fields which makes us guilty by association in the idiot officials eyes.

[rifleman_btx]

Exactly ive seen them at the event at Apache pass yesterday, an idiot flew directly opposite of the pattern, even took off WITH the wind. I mean if one can't even follow simple commonsense rules of the road, how can we expect them to not do even worse? Its madness, absolute madness! And that was at an AMA sanctioned event!

[benjack71]

1.) Well Amazon is in for a big surprise. It wouldn't be a far leap to see big cities, like Seattle, San Francisco, LA, Chicago, and NYC coming up with laws prohibiting drones. And the DC Metro area is all ready a no-fly zone. And let's not forget idiots with shotguns
2.) Not all of us have access to fields all-year-round. Yes I pay the AMA and belong to the local club, but our field is in literally the back side of the local county park(used to be the and part of it still is the park's dump), and the county closes off the road that access the road to the airfield for the winter, from about the first of November until April or May. So why shouldn't I be able to get some rotary wing time IN MY OWN YARD on nice days when it's not too windy and not too cold?
And all the rules in the world won't stop fools and idiots, just look at the gun issue. About the only thing they could do would be to require proof of licensing at point-of-purchase.

The big cities are not going to stop it, they will just tax it with even more certificates, licenses etc. etc.
Let me be clear, you can fly where ever you want. I have a good amount of acreage and I have operated my quad copter from it and yes, I am guilty of flying out of a parking lot about 4 years ago. My point is this. Do so at your own risk, and AMA should not be involved with insuring you or attempting to include you with any protections when you do. The only option that is viable at this point is for the AMA to fall back to club fields and ask that aircraft flying from those fixed sites have exemptions. There is no way in hell the FAA is going to exempt you or anyone else operating from private property or public domain when it comes time to require you to have a transponder on your aircraft. I have never in my life seen any govt. agency given power that they did not use and eventually abuse.
Some more food for thought, many of the drone manufactures favor this. DJI being one of them. They are looking at the commercial side of the business and it is going to have a larger pay out than the hobby side

https://tech.slashdot.org/story/17/03/28/213236/dji-proposes-new-electronic-license-plate-for-drones

[benjack71]

As i am an AMA member, i guess since i pay my fees and crap im not intitled to a voice or to be protected? Oh HELL NO! That **** can go strait to hell. I do not have or need to drive 170 miles to an AMA field when i have more land to fly on than any AMA field in the United States, and i guarantee you what i have paid for and done for this place every year far out weighs any amount you could ever hope to come up with. So yeah, any one who pays taxes in this country has a freaking voice a few of us have paid dearly including this man Valkpilot. Just because you fly at a damn "AMA approved" field doesnt make you right. No mater how right you think you are.

No one said you do not have a voice. I dont care where you fly from, I just do not think that you should have any AMA representation when you choose to not fly at an AMA registered fixed site. Sounds to me like you should consider getting a flying field/club. Takes 5 people to form a club and you have a yearly registration fee. That is the route I would take.

https://www.modelaircraft.org/sites/default/files/905.pdf

[rifleman_btx]

If the AMA were a club for elites i would agree on that, but fortunately by the grace of God it works out that they are like the NRA. (Or in my case im a member of the TSRA since im not happy with some of the compromises the NRA were willing to do) I thank God for that or there wouldnt be a hobby. You may not think im a hobbiest, but by God I fly my planes and i do it safely to the safety guidlines of AMA. Now if i lived in a city or town that had a field i would probably join it. But since i dont and no one in my home town flys but me, aint gonna happen.

[fhhuber]

Timeline not perfect... but really close. I have 1930's magazines where I can look most f it up to be exact.

AMA origin: At a meeting, held at the 1936 NATS (then run by the NAA, as the US representative organization under FAI. Organizations for keeping records of achievements in aviation) a group organized a new entity, to be named the Academy of Model Aeronautics, for the purposE of maintaining records of feats in model aviation and standardizing model aviation contest rules.

That is what the AMA came into being to do.

Within less than 6 months the organization had a rulebook for events held at the time. (Control line conspicuously missing, because it wasn't invented yet, but Radio Control assisted Free Flight was included...)

Shortly after that, someone had the bright idea of offering OPTIONAL insurance to AMA members. AMA membership was 50 cents a year and the insurance was another 50 cents for a modest liability coverage. This insurance became commonly called the "gas license" because practically all contests required it for participants flying gasoline powered models.

As the technologies involved in model aviation progressed, (and loopholes in the rules were exploited) the rulebook grew from an appx 5X7 4 page pamphlet to our current fairly large PDF file.

FAI rules for international competition limited aircraft size,weight and engine displacement total for models in competition and in order to aid competitors in meeting FAI rules, AMA mostly followed the same limitations. (for a very long time... 11 lbs (5 kilo) 2 meter span, .61 ci (10 cc) total engine displacement maximum for any competition)

FAI membership was an optional extra membership, only needed if wishing to enter international competitions or to set world records as opposed to AMA/USA records. (speed, duration, altitude, distance...)

In WWII, AMA organized members to build 1/72 scale models for training our military airmen and ground observers (and antiaircraft gunners) in identifying enemy vs friendly aircraft, by silhouette at any possible angle. Millions of exact scale solid models were produced. (usually hand carved from scrap pine or other similar density wood)

Model aviation was pretty much ignored/forgotten by the government, despite NACA/NASA and every aircraft manufacturer using scale models for wind tunnel and RC flight testing to aid in developing designs.

Appx early 1970's RC suddenly became cheaper and easier to get into with reliable radios based on transistors and digital proportional control was standardized. Soon after radios using IC chips led to further cost reduction and better reliability. (Futaba VS JR VS Airtronics/Sanwa used variations on the standard, with + shift vs - shift and different channel orders,but still the same basic logic allowing mixing one maker's servos with another maker's receiver... if you knew how to swap the wires.)

RC started getting noticed by the FAA, resulting in AC 91-57, 1981 and the first mention of a 400 ft recommended ceiling for radio controlled models.
I have no idea what idiot told the FAA guy that 400 ft was plenty...

Without any issues of RC models interfering with full scale, man-carrying aircraft, FAA ignored us again. AMA didn't have much trouble just talking with FAA and FAA agreeing with whatever.

More and more "sport flyers" with absolutely no interest in formalized competition entered the hobby as prices plummeted (relative to income) and it became easier to prepare an aircraft for flight.

Enter the first infrared or magnetic field sensing electronic stabilizer systems and training by experienced modelers became less and less necessary for success.

People with essentially no training can now just buy a model capable of 100+ mph off the shelf, with auto-stabilization and GPS homing and a FPV camera system. And they think its OK to program the things to fly wherever they want, whenever they want, without regard to the safety of full scale aircraft that might be carrying 200 to 300 (or more) passengers....

And you wonder why the FAA suddenly got concerned.

[fhhuber]

and, yes... I did that from memory.

Edit add:::

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There is no such thing as an "AMA approved field.

AMA clubs have a "recommended field layout" to reference when setting up a field for RC, CL or free flight.
These recommendations are outdated and nearly useless for RC today. CL field layout recommendatins are pretty well set in stone unless someone comes up with a need for longer lines.

AMA offers "Site insurance" which is essentially the same coverage members get that applies to protecting the land owner even if they are not a member.

Flying at an AMA affiliated club's field is not required for the member's insurance to be valid.
You can even ignore SOME of the AMA safety rules and your insurance would still be good. (AMA number/ID info on the plane... if not there, the insurance is still good)

[Valkpilot]

You signed that blank check as much as me, so with that comes the backup, in the end, even with the ribbing and all that we all do with eachother. That is just how we roll. :Cool:

Fortunately, no Nugget had a bad day on the flight deck during my watch.

[Valkpilot]

and, yes... I did that from memory.

Edit add:::

*********************

There is no such thing as an "AMA approved field.

AMA clubs have a "recommended field layout" to reference when setting up a field for RC, CL or free flight.
These recommendations are outdated and nearly useless for RC today. CL field layout recommendatins are pretty well set in stone unless someone comes up with a need for longer lines.

AMA offers "Site insurance" which is essentially the same coverage members get that applies to protecting the land owner even if they are not a member.

Flying at an AMA affiliated club's field is not required for the member's insurance to be valid.
You can even ignore SOME of the AMA safety rules and your insurance would still be good. (AMA number/ID info on the plane... if not there, the insurance is still good)

Actually, the AMA kind of certifies fields. The club I belong to used to have a big open field with an abandoned road to use as a runway. The thing was there was a possible overfly of a playground, and there were
some fools sitting in the playground's parking lot with BB guns and 22 cals taking pot-shots at fueled planes. They got their "certification" pulled and the club was forced to find another site, which is now literlly the backside of the park(used to be and still is the park's dump). For an idea of what it's like, check out the link below.

[fhhuber]

Actually, the AMA kind of certifies fields. The club I belong to used to have a big open field with an abandoned road to use as a runway. The thing was there was a possible overfly of a playground, and there were
some fools sitting in the playground's parking lot with BB guns and 22 cals taking pot-shots at fueled planes. They got their "certification" pulled and the club was forced to find another site, which is now literlly the backside of the park(used to be and still is the park's dump). For an idea of what it's like, check out the link below.

AMA might pull the site insurance because the group flying there is blatantly violating AMA safety code...

I remember one such story.

The club was constantly having police called fr overflying a farm house that should have been behind the "no fly line" (recommended by AMA... straight line, no flying on one side, all fly on the other)

AMA representative was sent out to investigate after many complaints to AMA by the farmer.

AMA representative showed up (by appointment) at the club field.
Nobody flew over the farmhouse or anywhere near it.
AMA representative said "well this all looks OK to me" and headed out.
He went direct to the farmhouse... and witnessed 5 models rapidly do low, high speed passes directly over the house roof.
AMA pulled the club's site insurance and the club lost its lease.

That one was written up in Model Aviation.

It damn near takes an act of congress to get AMA to pull a club's site insurance... and that is really the only thing AMA can do to "discipline" any club.

[fhhuber]

BTW... on a Repo show... a club used their aircraft to buzz the repo guy and drive him out of the parking lot when he was trying to repo a club member's vehicle...

That one made national TV on a syndicated show about deadbeats.

[fhhuber]

Richard Mcfarland Drone's spell the end to fixed wing R/C flying unless the AMA rejects any and all Drone operations we are witnessing the end of radio control model air plane operations s. It makes me sick that the AMA is in bed with these irresponsible operators.

Manage


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Fred Huber Richard Mcfarland

AMA rejected drones

Members screamed

AMA rejected FPV

Members screamed

Now members are getting the results of what they asked for despite being warned.











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(Above pasted in from FaceBook with resulting formatting and links)

I was among those opposed to unrestricted FPV and was accused of being a Luddite...
I was among those opposed to GPS way-point autonomous flight and was accused of being a Luddite...
I was among those screaming that idiots doing FPV above clouds and more than 5 miles from where the operator was standing was insane, and was accused of being a Luddite...
I was probably the only voice saying Maynard Hill, attempting to have an autonomous model cross the Atlantic was a bad idea...

The more we demonstrate the real capabilities of modern RC aircraft, the more we prove the RC hobby needs regulation...

[Twowingtj]

Bottom line... We are all RC aircraft pilots. As such, if this bill passes the Senate, WE are in for some serious regulations. It will be up for vote THIS WEEK. You don't have to be an AMA member to let your opposition to the bill be heard. Every "squeeky wheel" can help. Anybody, friends, family, whatever, can send the message to legislators, that we don't want this to happen.

Put aside any differences of oppinion and say something to those that will be casting thier vote on this bill.

[Valkpilot]

Bottom line... We are all RC aircraft pilots. As such, if this bill passes the Senate, WE are in for some serious regulations. It will be up for vote THIS WEEK. You don't have to be an AMA member to let your opposition to the bill be heard. Every "squeeky wheel" can help. Anybody, friends, family, whatever, can send the message to legislators, that we don't want this to happen.

Put aside any differences of oppinion and say something to those that will be casting thier vote on this bill.

"We must, indeed, all hang together or, most assuredly, we shall all hang separately." Benjamin Franklin.