Looking for a good EDF to use as a turbine trainer...

[Chief58D]

A Happy Memorial Day weekend to everyone, and especially to my fellow Brothers in Arms!

I fly sUAS aircraft for a living - mostly electric multirotor, but getting more and more fixed-wing business lately.
Recently, our company found out that we may need to add turbine-powered fixed wing to our qualification list, and I'm likely to be one of our first company pilots to jump in the hot seat.
We're going to be limited to 20 lbs. flying weight, and will likely be sticking with a variety of sport turbine jets that fit in that class.
So, I was wondering if anyone with turbine experience might be able to recommend an EDF jet that might be suitable as a turbine trainer?

I've flown RC on-and off (mostly "on") since the 80's, and have experience flying 70mm EDF's such as the Habu 2 and Yak-130.
Other than my hand-launched P.15, I haven't flown any other EDF's in close to a year (relocation has been a pain...), but I do currently have an Avanti 80mm I hope to maiden within the next couple of weeks, missions permitting.

Everything I've read seems to indicate the Avanti is a very-forgiving 80mm jet (which is AWESOME from the sport pilot viewpoint), so I was wondering if anyone had recommendations for an EDF (preferably MRC PnP!!) that might come a bit closer to sharing handling characteristics that might be seen in a typical 20 lb. sport turbine jet? :Thinking:

Thanks!

Randy

[Woodcock]

I just learning EDF's myself. I think a good choice for a trainer is the Avanti. My reasoning is simple, this jet has more of a pattern plane wing than a scale jet wing, which is much more swept than the Avanti. For me even thought I really like the Avanti, I purchased (2) HSD Viper Jets. A 75mm, and a 90mm. The only reason I did this is price point. HSD had the 75mm on sale for $128 Pnp. I got the 90mm for $299 Pnp. My logic is if there is a high probability of smashing it, I go cheep, LOL. I've also purchased an F-16, F-18, (2) toss and boss, and most recently an A-10 from MRC. They will remain in the box until I significantly cut my teeth on the cheaper jets, (yea I know the toss and boss are cheap too, but I really like these planes). I will probably never move on to Pure Jets, as they are costly, Highly Experimental IMO, and always present a more than significant fire/safety hazard. Besides I've seen EDF's that sound almost as good, (good enough for me at least) and are much, much more proven tech.

There is one other model I might tell ya about. It's called a JetStar, made by TopRC. $98 Pnp. I've heard it flies really well, really good price point. Has landing gear and all four channels.

Nothing is going to be able to simulate a 20 pound plane, except a 20 pound plane.

Good Luck to you mate.

Woody

[Chief58D]

Yeah, no doubt a 20 lb turbine model is going to be difficult to simulate with a foamy that's likely half the weight or less!! ;)

I guess what i'm looking for is something in the EDF world that might be considered a bit less forgiving / more demanding to fly than most of the recent breed of high-performance, relatively easy-to-fly jets.
(And I definitely appreciate the irony in asking for a MORE demanding EDF to fly, when we've been waiting years for the current quality & performance now available in the foamies!!)

Turbines weren't on my radar either, given the cost, complexity, and space to fly ~
I always figured the only way I'd ever get a turbine model was with the backing of a winning Powerball ticket -
Never dreamed it might be a "job requirement"...

I've already started the search for turbine-rated pilots in my area, but they appear to be few and far between.
I have a feeling this is going to be an interesting adventure -
Just glad the boss is going to pay for most of it!:)

[Flash Jorden]

I haven't flown turbine yet, but I have flown the big foam HSD 105 Super Viper (Avanti clone/ripoff) which also comes in a turbine version. It is a big heavy foam plane but flies great, pretty forgiving. It's a floater when trying to land. The Freewing AvantiS is very similar in nature. Forgiving and great flier. Also can be a floater on landing, especially with 1st position flaps. I highly recommend it as an EDF, but I don't have any experience to say how it would fare as a trainer for entry into turbines. I recommend the HSD 105mm Super Viper, but it has a bit of a stiff price tag, but it also comes PnP. Just add receiver and 12S x 5000 batteries.

[Woodcock]

I haven't flown turbine yet, but I have flown the big foam HSD 105 Super Viper (Avanti clone/ripoff) which also comes in a turbine version. It is a big heavy foam plane but flies great, pretty forgiving. It's a floater when trying to land. The Freewing AvantiS is very similar in nature. Forgiving and great flier. Also can be a floater on landing, especially with 1st position flaps. I highly recommend it as an EDF, but I don't have any experience to say how it would fare as a trainer for entry into turbines. I recommend the HSD 105mm Super Viper, but it has a bit of a stiff price tag, but it also comes PnP. Just add receiver and 12S x 5000 batteries.

I would think that would be pretty good. As he can fit it, or buy the turbine ready version.

Woody

[EDFjetpilot]

Randy,

Admittedly, your requirements for an EDF you can use as a turbine trainer confuse me. As I'm now looking to get into turbines myself, I've been told the basic difference is the turbine lag and the additional momentum (in the form of increased airspeed) carried by a turbine. Also, I've been told the best aircraft as a turbine trainer is a turbine trainer. That being said, let me give you some ideas to consider.

If you're looking for a heavier plane to fly, why not go with the twin 80mm A-10. At 13+ pounds AUW, it'll be closest to the weight of your proposed turbine.

If you're looking for a more challenging plane to fly, go with the 90mm F-16 or F-104. They have a heavier wing loading.

If you're looking for a fast, highly maneuverable plane to fly, stick with your Avanti. Fly it fast and crank up the control throws to train yourself to be two steps ahead of the plane.

If you want to consider something outside of the MRC line up, look into HSD Jets (HSDgo.com). They have 60N turbine versions of their 105mm EDFs and weight in the 15-25 pound range. Personally, I'm looking into their Super Viper as my "turbine jet trainer".

In short, it will be a combination of flying various types of EDFs to build your skills toward moving up to a turbine. And even then, it's not just piloting skills, but the understanding of how a turbine can cause more harm or damage when things go wrong.

And saying the current EDFs are "easy-to-fly" is also a matter of perspective. I've personally heard a pro-pilot say his 1/5 scale turbine was easier to fly than his friend's 90mm EDF.

I know I didn't recommend a specific plane for you, however, maybe you can narrow down what will work best for you based on the ideas I've thrown out.

Good luck,

Sean

[Jhnybgd]

Heaviest flying freewing jet I have had is the 90mm F16 on 8s very tricky taking off and landing.....
on grass anyhow.

[Chief58D]

Appreciate the feedback guys!
The HSDgo.com offerings might be a good way for our team to get the hands-on training time we need, in lieu of investing in some bigger EDF's.

It does look like a 20 lb limit may not give us a lot of choices when it comes to flight duration ~
The mission duration we're going to ultimately need is going to be a challenging target to reach!

[EDFjetpilot]

Randy,

If you have the time, come by Jets Over Kentucky sometime between 11-14 July near Lebanon, Kentucky. I'll be there with RC Jetwerx and we're planning on bringing both the EDF and turbine versions of the HSD Jets. Would love to show you some options.

Sean

[Evan D]

As noted a turbine trainer needs to simulate what you would expect from a turbine... The F-104 comes to mind as it flies more like a turbine. The F-16 would too, but not as 8s. A 6S stock version would require you to work the throttle more as a turbine.