Are people just stupid?

[retiredflyer]

  OK, I have to vent here. I went out flying this morning at 0600 at my favorite spot. This is a rec center with a huge parking lot that makes a great landing area. I park of to one side and I can land in either direction.
  So I'm flying the pattern and this idiot in a van pulls in and parks IN THE EXACT MIDDLE of the parking lot! What the neck dude, do you not see that I'm the only person here, and I'm flying, and you are right in the exact wrong area? I have seen this guy several times and he just drives in, parks, gets out of the van and smokes a butt. I think he's just killing time as its at the same time every time he had been there. It hasn't effected me before as I was just leaving anyway.
  I managed to get my plane down at the opposite end of the parking lot because it was a small one and didn't need a lot of strip. However, I had been flying my WACO that needs a lot more runway for me to be comfortable. 
  This boob had seen me numerous times so be knows what I'm doing. Should I go over and tell him to get the heck out of the way when I'm there flying? I suppose I should be tactful as I'm representing our sport, but I would really like to rip him a new one! 
  Am I being unreasonably angry here?

[Lon]

RE: Are people just stupid?

  OK, I have to vent here. I went out flying this morning at 0600 at my favorite spot. This is a rec center with a huge parking lot that makes a great landing area. I park of to one side and I can land in either direction.
  So I'm flying the pattern and this idiot in a van pulls in and parks IN THE EXACT MIDDLE of the parking lot! What the neck dude, do you not see that I'm the only person here, and I'm flying, and you are right in the exact wrong area? I have seen this guy several times and he just drives in, parks, gets out of the van and smokes a butt. I think he's just killing time as its at the same time every time he had been there. It hasn't effected me before as I was just leaving anyway.
  I managed to get my plane down at the opposite end of the parking lot because it was a small one and didn't need a lot of strip. However, I had been flying my WACO that needs a lot more runway for me to be comfortable. 
  This boob had seen me numerous times so be knows what I'm doing. Should I go over and tell him to get the heck out of the way when I'm there flying? I suppose I should be tactful as I'm representing our sport, but I would really like to rip him a new one! 
  Am I being unreasonably angry here?

Well......... kind of aggravating since you know he's aware of what your doing there (You can't fix stupid)

I frequent the school parking lots and soccer fields near me. I use the expression that "everyone" knows me as the "Guy that flies planes". And with it being a very small town/rural area....everyone knows everyone it seems. There is occasions where I'm the only one around and someone drives up. But again, they've seen me there, and will park next to me (to watch/talk before going into school), or the section of the lot that would not be a issue.
I've had people come and give me a "Heads up". That a soccer team, or softball team is meeting there in a little bit. I then finish my flight and move to another area, or most the time, I've been there since the crack of dawn and go home anyway.
Then there's the occasion where I head over to the school....and DANG! Home soccer, softball, football game is going on.

To answer your question. Sure, get mad...if it makes you feel better. Otherwise, I'd shrug it off, it is what it is.

[Konrad]

RE: Are people just stupid?

The public at large has no idea what is involved in flying these "toys".  As such they don't know what kind of space we need. Nor do they know the dangers these models present. I for one will not fly without a spotter in a park or parking lot. It is the job of my spotter to keep the public back, out of the way. 

If this is the guy's normal hang out spot, and having seen this guy numerous times have you gone up and talked to him? Or are you assuming that he will gain knowledge of our past time through osmosis?

Could this be a case of the kettle calling the pot black?

Just saying you might want to look at your behavior to see if there is anything that can be done to mitigate the situation.

All the best,
Konrad

[OV10]

RE: Are people just stupid?

Konrad,
I concur with your succinct observation and recommendation to retiredflyer's situation. I do however wish that you or anyone else involved in this sport of RC model aviation wouldn't try to diminish the character of it with using adjectives like toys in quotation marks. These are far from being in that category because of the inherent hazards(or dangers as you said) they do possess, just a thought to consider.
Best Regards,

[retiredflyer]

RE: Are people just stupid?

This is the first time I have had to modify my landing area due to his presence. Usually I'm already packing it in by the time he shows up. Today I was a bit later being there. If I see him tomorrow I will most certainly go and introduce myself and  talk. 
  I was just trying to put out there in this thread that some people just don't seem to grasp the situation at hand. It happened to be my last flight of the day and I didn't feel like talking to him at that moment. I was rather peeved and didn't want to say something I would regret later. He has as much right to that parking lot as I do so I can't stop him, just want to get along
  

[Hippie 64]

RE: Are people just stupid?

  Retired I completely understand where your coming from. I fly at my local High School , the nearest club is a hour away and yes I am a member ,on the practice football field . I know that school is back in so I don't go till after 6:30 now because of practice . The school knows I am there and have had conversations with them . The answer I got was this is a public school and I am a taxpayer to enjoy myself .
  They know I'm making a mess or disturbing anyone . If someone comes up and I am flying I've been known to say . I am coming in watch out !! It seems to work for me so far .
  Konrad I am happy for you to have a person with you so you can have a spotter . I am finding out that even tho many of us do fly at clubs there is also many who don't have access .  
  retired I don't see any reason to not speak to them , Hey I'm ..... If you wouldn't mind can you park over there .

  AND YES MOST PEOPLE ARE SO INTO THEIR SELFISH SELFS THEY DONT GIVE A RATS ASS !!!!!!
Good luck and let us know

Bryan
 

[Grossman56]

RE: Are people just stupid?

I hear you guys.  When I flew out of the school just across the street, I'd run across people like that too.  Some would park in the middle of the parking lot and walk all the way over to the school building, I swear just to piss me off.  There are some who consider themselves above everyone else, we know that and have dealt with people like that all our lives, and it gets frustrating. You know that if you tried to land and hit their car, they'd be out there like a bullet and its hard not to imagine that they're not doing this on purpose.
I was lucky enough to find a flying field and move there and boy, it really makes me appreciate it.  Now the only trouble is the guy with the parasail who shows up with his wife and four kids.  They bring their pellet guns and pepper the bathrooms and jump on the tables, basically abuse the facility.  Since we don't have a lock on the gate, or even a gate for that matter, what do you do.  They've been asked but we're told to mind our own business.  We've reported it to the club execs and they're to the point of calling the police.  But then what happens.  Some people are just plain ignorant....Out here in Wyoming, you could go out there and find the field trashed and shot up with real guns.

Grossman56

[Capt. Crunch]

RE: Are people just stupid?

I think we've all had our problems with people when we fly in public areas. Its just something we have to endure. And as far as calling these planes "toys", that's exactly what the public thinks they are.
I can rarely go fly and not have someone stop and talk to me. I usually don't mind, but the same comments and questions are getting a little old. ...wow that things quiet...me, its electric...really?! how long does the battery last?, 6 minutes, really?! that's it?, can you recharge the battery?, how long does it take to recharge?, whats one of those cost?, where'd you get it, ever crash it?, how many planes do you have?...
The best (or worst) question I've ever been asked is "does the propeller really turn?" By that time I was like... just go away.

Its good to have stupid people around, it makes the rest of us look smart! Lol

Jeff

[StormyDog1962]

RE: Are people just stupid?

I sometimes fly at a Forest Preserve where they have an RC Club and it is right next to a jogging trail and all day long you get folks asking questions and after being out there a couple hours it does get old. I like helping people and guiding them but I also enjoy my solitude so I tend to not bother going there. I really miss my old club in Indiana which was on a private farm well off the road and most people were afraid to drive on private property to get back there. Another plus was it was flat and treeless in front of us, just corn or soybeans depending on the year. We had a solar charge station mounted to the shelter a nice Port A Let that was serviced twice a month and lots of privacy. I would spend 8-10 hours out there on a weekend. Ah the good ole days.
Wayne

[Konrad]

RE: Are people just stupid?

"A rose by any other name would smell as sweet” My apologies to Bill


I used the term “toy” because that is how they are perceived by the public at large, and in an objective way they are toys. Heck even my wife of close to 25 years with her Phd (she is not stupid) thinks we are grown men playing with our toy airplanes. 

Now after 45 years of flying these “models” I have a different perspective. I have personally seen 2 fatal accidents with “model aircraft”.  As a result I think of our “toys” as deadly weapons. To put this into context a 5 lb. model traveling at close to 80 mph had the killing force (energy) close to that of a 30-06 bullet.

I’d hate to read in the papers that a stupid R/C flier had killed an innocent bystander with his model or drone flying in an unsafe manner. I think the AMA Safety Code says that one must maintain a flight line a certain distance from spectators. I can guarantee you that should you be sued for injuring somebody this will come up. For this reason I don’t fly without some way to show that I was trying to maintain a flight line. This is why I don’t fly “heavy and/or fast” models in an uncontrolled area. IT ISN”T SAFE and at best it would be easy to classify as reckless!

If I’m in a park by myself I only fly my 4oz park flier type models. The heavier ones stay in the car until I can control a flight line (i.e., a friend shows up). The fact that we may be social misfits and not have friends to help us fly (maintain a flight line) is no excuse to fly in a reckless manner! Fly a model in an area that is safe for the weight and speed of the model. This means that in most uncontrolled areas this would be limited to light park flier. 

Now as an aerospace engineer I will say that since our models don’t mimic (model) the performance of any full size aircraft it would be easy to call our models toys. Advanced toys as they must obey the same laws of physics but toys nonetheless.  Some might say that  flying for hire would reclassify our toys. I’d hate to see how the FAA would want to regulate our hobby if they thought our models were anything other than toys, like a kite, or baseball!


So stay out of the papers and fly safe! Communicate with the public at large! For the most part they love to watch us fly. They just don't know the etiquette or dangers involved. It is up to us to inform them. While they might be ignorant of the hazards,  we would be the stupid fools for not informing them of the dangers of our sport.


Fly safe,
Konrad

[PappaBear]

RE: Are people just stupid?

Well said Konrad, I'm with you 100%.

However I don't like the term "toys", although I do understand why the public believe they are. I like to call our models "Miniature Aircraft", which is essentially what they are. Miniature versions of the real thing. NASA refers to them as "Sub Scale" aircraft.

The public at large have no clue how dangerous a model aircraft can be. Over the years I've seen a number of nasty accidents including fatalities involving model aircraft. It doesn't have to be pilot error for a normal flight to turn into a disaster. It could be a model failure in some way.

Safety should be everyones number one priority when flying. Always be prepared for the unexpected.

Martin.

[Konrad]

RE: Are people just stupid?

Yes, Safety first at all times. And that means keeping people, stupid or otherwise, at a safe distance.

The NASA models I've dealt with were modeled to mimic certain aerodynamic responses of the full size. They did not look like AMA scale models, as the airfoils, surface chords and mass distribution did not, do not, have any linear relationship to the full size. True scaling of performance is rather a tricky endeavor.

I know of no model (toy or otherwise) that really are miniature versions of the full size (real thing :s ).

Why do you guys have an issue with the term toys? For example a BB gun is a toy gun. Yes, the pellets obey a ballistic path and yes they are dangerous. They can take an eye out.  A toy train is confined to the tracks just like the full size.

So why do our miniature aircraft not fit a definition of toy?

All the best,
Konrad

[doctormike]

RE: Are people just stupid?

Last week, Our Santa Fe RC club had the annual float fly at Cochiti lake. We pay a fee to have a small portion of beach for our use. Guess what! Here come the kiyakers ( I don't know how it's spelled, and I don't care!) We politely tell them the situation and they choose to ignore us, going their merry way, under our 6 ft. wing span, 80MPH planes as we yell at them. We are talking STEEEEUUUPID!!! Oh well... we had a great time. Man! I love flying off water! Doc

[Konrad]

RE: Are people just stupid?

Last week, Our Santa Fe RC club had the annual float fly at Cochiti lake. We pay a fee to have a small portion of beach for our use. Guess what! Here come the kayakers(SP) ( I don't know how it's spelled, and I don't care!) We politely tell them the situation and they choose to ignore us, going their merry way, under our 6 ft. wing span, 80MPH planes as we yell at them. We are talking STEEEEUUUPID!!! Oh well... we had a great time. Man! I love flying off water! Doc

Sounds like you really have a problem with the municipality that took your Fee (I assume it was a municipality that you paid the fee too). They took (actually stole) your money and offered you no service in return. Only the government can do that and legally get away with it. But it still is a problem we all have with our/your government, legal robbery .

Have you asked for your fee back as they didn't offer any service in exchange for the fee?

Looking for value in our government,
Konrad

[DonRhone]

RE: Are people just stupid?

I usually fly with a friend of mine at the local parks and playgrounds. If there is absolutely no one around we will both fly our small UMX flyers, however should anyone else show up we would alternate spotting duties.

I have been flying a number of times and a parent has walked right up to one of us while flying and attempted to start a conversation.  They do not seem to realize that while flying even these UMX planes we like to give our full concentration to the plane.

I have also had one of these parents ask if their kid could perhaps fly the plane for a few minutes to just to try it out.  It is bad enough that they would try walking right up to you while you are flying, but to compound that with such a stupid request is just beyond me.

As someone else mentioned the general public certainly do think of most rc planes as toys and have no idea of the space requirements needed.

[Lon]

RE: Are people just stupid?

Last week, Our Santa Fe RC club had the annual float fly at Cochiti lake. We pay a fee to have a small portion of beach for our use. Guess what! Here come the kayakers(SP) ( I don't know how it's spelled, and I don't care!) We politely tell them the situation and they choose to ignore us, going their merry way, under our 6 ft. wing span, 80MPH planes as we yell at them. We are talking STEEEEUUUPID!!! Oh well... we had a great time. Man! I love flying off water! Doc

Sounds like you really have a problem with the municipality that took your Fee (I assume it was a municipality that you paid the fee too). They took (actually stole) your money and offered you no service in return. Only the government can do that and legally get away with it. But it still is a problem we all have with our/your government, legal robbery .



Have you asked for your fee back as they didn't offer any service in exchange for the fee?

Looking for value in our government,
Konrad

Konrad...

It was more like "welfare Kayakers" or "Illegal Kayak immigrants" that was the problem.  Doc and his fellow club members/workers did the right thing. Paid for municipal services...or are you saying everything should be free?

NOTICE: I retract and apologize for my previous statements. I hadn't finished my first cup of coffee this morning and had went to this forum to read and relax, get away from all the problems in the world.

[Konrad]

RE: Are people just stupid?

I was trying to humorous with the idiotic concept of finding value in our government services. And no to the idea of FREE love.
 But if a municipality charges a fee there should be some kind of service offered in return. Here in California the park ranger will enforce your claim to a camp site should somebody be squaring on your reserved spot. 

Yep I too get "bothered" while flying. In an effort to keep good public relations I often carry a beater plane for that very purpose. (Ok it is a purpose bought trainer) I offer them some stick time and a card to the local hobby shop. 

Trying to keep the hobby in a good light with the public,
Konrad

[yorkiepap]

RE: Are people just stupid?

  OK, I have to vent here. I went out flying this morning at 0600 at my favorite spot. This is a rec center with a huge parking lot that makes a great landing area. I park of to one side and I can land in either direction.
  So I'm flying the pattern and this idiot in a van pulls in and parks IN THE EXACT MIDDLE of the parking lot! What the neck dude, do you not see that I'm the only person here, and I'm flying, and (1) you are right in the exact wrong area? I have seen this guy several times and he just drives in, parks, gets out of the van and smokes a butt. I think he's just killing time as its at the same time every time he had been there. It hasn't effected me before as I was just leaving anyway.
  I managed to get my plane down at the opposite end of the parking lot because it was a small one and didn't need a lot of strip. However, I had been flying my WACO that needs a lot more runway for me to be comfortable. 
 (2) This boob had seen me numerous times so be knows what I'm doing. Should I go over and tell him to (3) get the heck out of the way when I'm there flying? (6) I suppose I should be tactful as I'm representing our sport, but (4) I would really like to rip him a new one! 
 (5) Am I being unreasonably angry here?

(1) Who are you to proclaim who is in the wrong area? It's a PUBLIC parking lot. What he does there is completely irrelevant.
(2) You don't have any idea who this fellow is, yet you have the disdain to call him a "boob"?? Quite shallow.
(3) You have no right to dictate ANYTHING to ANYONE while entertaining yourself in a PUBLIC parking lot.
(4) That would be totally undignified & unreasonable as you don't have the justification to do so.
(5) ABSOLUTELY!!!!! Have a cup of coffee & chill a bit.
(6) Probably the most coherent statement you made entirely.

I am also retired. I belong to a great RC club & I have the benefit to fly on the super nice 55 acre farm that adjoins my property. Maybe take a day to find a suitable location in a fairly open area that you could get permission to fly. Don't be so adamant that you have more rights than another just because you're flying your models in an area that is deemed for ANYONE to use. Nuff said.....

Denny

[Rocketeer]

RE: Are people just stupid?

Greetings,
 
There is nothing wrong with the expectation of mutual courtesy. Both individuals have the right of way in this case.

Perhaps opening a dialog to agree upon a less intrusive parking spot when someone is flying could be reached.

If he like to park in the middle, perhaps you could ask him if in the future he might look to see if you are flying and to choose an alternative parking location until you've had an opportunity to safely/comfortably land.

Who knows, since he obviously likes to be out that early too, you might convert him into a flying buddy, Then he will have an additional incentive not to park in the middle.

However, after further review of the details provided, indeed the arrival of the second individual was undoubtedly an inconvenience, but, I share the view point offered by Denny.

Although, he might have made his point a bit more tactfully.

If we elect to fly within the public domain, then we have to be of the mind set that at some point the public will be there.


Bill L.
In OKla.

[Konrad]

RE: Are people just stupid?

There is nothing wrong with the way Denny made his point hard and to the point, no sugar coating. After all the OP was calling the public stupid and a boob.

The OP was asking for a reality check (I give him credit for that) and I think he is getting one.

All the best,
Konrad